News Article: O/T: NHL league-wide...HDA releases statement: Done with NHL etc.

[lomekian]

Rich people are going to hire the guys that will help make them more rich.
Successful people want to hire guys that will help make them more successful.

Average people think too much like average people. No skin color is getting in the way of a greedy Rich man and his money. And that’s what it comes down to, who is going to make me the most money.

if you think there is a race problem when it comes to management positions in the nhl maybe that’s just your bias showing. Maybe you wouldn’t hire a black candidate so you can’t imagine someone else doing it.

I’m still waiting to see the line of black guys trying to get an nhl management position.

I guess the crux of the point I was making may have escaped you a little. And perhaps the realities of the world we live in.

Not helped by you initially dismissing that prejudice may influence recruiters perceptions, before then accusing me of prejudice, despite clearly knowing nothing about me.

I am mixed race and have had 40 years experience of people regularly having lower expectations of my intellectual capacity or competence based on my hue, and making assumptions about my views, interests or cultural influences. I've been stopped by the police much more than any of my white friends, despite unlike most of them, having never done anything to merit it. I've had professional contacts refuse to believe that the person they have been corresponding with is the person they are looking at. I've been denied interviews for jobs where I am far more qualified and capable than those hired. I've had so many patronising pats on the head from people without my qualifications, experience or skills, because they assume I can't be as capable as them.

Equally, I've had people assume I must be more athletic, strong or physically explosive than I am. I've had people assume I must be an amazing dancer, a great sportsperson or an expert ladies man based on my ethnic background.

I'm lucky - I was born with a quick mind, supportive parents and enough of a remove from social conditioning to not be too affected my some of the road blockages that come with not being Caucasian. I'm happy, healthy, do a job I love and am about to become a father. But that doesn't stop me seeing not just the things that could affect me, but more importantly the depth of racial prejudice aimed far more strongly at those more 'different' than myself.

As for not seeing the line of Black guys, while it is fair to say that they will be a small percentage of potential candidates, particularly in Canada which has different demographics to the US, has it not occurred to you that many will feel dissuaded by a lack of role models, a lack of encouragement, and the fact that its pretty common knowledge that hockey has historically failed to protect minorities from discrimination. Also, one has to ask, what you don't see, doesn't necessarily not exist, especially if you don't look. Regardless of the physical question about trees falling unheard and unseen, reality is not defined by your perception

 

[lomekian]

The black population in Canada is 2.6%

I feel like that speaks for itself.

Which is why I said the targets and timescales were optimistic. And also why I hope they meant ethnic minority rather than just BLACK, because intersectional approaches to these matters are much better for everyone, and yield swifter progress.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I guess the crux of the point I was making may have escaped you a little. And perhaps the realities of the world we live in.

Not helped by you initially dismissing that prejudice may influence recruiters perceptions, before then accusing me of prejudice, despite clearly knowing nothing about me.

I am mixed race and have had 40 years experience of people regularly having lower expectations of my intellectual capacity or competence based on my hue, and making assumptions about my views, interests or cultural influences. I've been stopped by the police much more than any of my white friends, despite unlike most of them, having never done anything to merit it. I've had professional contacts refuse to believe that the person they have been corresponding with is the person they are looking at. I've been denied interviews for jobs where I am far more qualified and capable than those hired. I've had so many patronising pats on the head from people without my qualifications, experience or skills, because they assume I can't be as capable as them.

Equally, I've had people assume I must be more athletic, strong or physically explosive than I am. I've had people assume I must be an amazing dancer, a great sportsperson or an expert ladies man based on my ethnic background.

I'm lucky - I was born with a quick mind, supportive parents and enough of a remove from social conditioning to not be too affected my some of the road blockages that come with not being Caucasian. I'm happy, healthy, do a job I love and am about to become a father. But that doesn't stop me seeing not just the things that could affect me, but more importantly the depth of racial prejudice aimed far more strongly at those more 'different' than myself.

As for not seeing the line of Black guys, while it is fair to say that they will be a small percentage of potential candidates, particularly in Canada which has different demographics to the US, has it not occurred to you that many will feel dissuaded by a lack of role models, a lack of encouragement, and the fact that its pretty common knowledge that hockey has historically failed to protect minorities from discrimination. Also, one has to ask, what you don't see, doesn't necessarily not exist, especially if you don't look. Regardless of the physical question about trees falling unheard and unseen, reality is not defined by your perception

I guess it’s difficult for me because I couldn’t imagine judging someone based on the color of their skin. Just seems quite dumb. I judge people based on their choices. I don’t like black “culture” or what is socially Defined as such. Has nothing to do with skin color, and I just assume most people that are considered racist just don’t like the “culture” same as me. A black guy wearing a suit standing next to a white guy wearing a suit looks no different to me. So I kind of chaulk up most “racism” with cultural dislike. And the way you behave is your choice and open for criticism in my opinion. A black guy walking down the street with well fitted clothes and lacking any discernible “swagger” or “pimp lean” garners no difference in response by me than a white guy doing the same.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

This thread is going about how I thought it would (spoiler - not good).



Cringe.



Definitely.

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

Your article seems kind of hard to comprehend as Asians are the highest earners in the u.s. and are stereotyped as being highly intelligent and diligent workers.

brings into question the validity of the study. Based on these things you’d think everyone would need to “Asian-up” their resumes.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Your article seems kind of hard to comprehend as Asians are the highest earners in the u.s. and are stereotyped as being highly intelligent and diligent workers.

brings into question the validity of the study. Based on these things you’d think everyone would need to “Asian-up” their resumes.

I’m curious, also, the changes made to “whiten” or “blacken” these resumes.

they imply that they changed more than just the name.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Hockey is very expensive sport. Play basketball , you just need a ball, just go to near school and shoot the hoop . In the end hockey is the least paid athletes .

Football is an expensive sport too. At one time Blacks were excluded. Fortunately that is no longer the case and wouldn't you know, the game has a very large proportion of Black athletes. They just need to keep their mouths shut and salute the flag. Or in the case of the NBA shut up and dribble.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I guess it’s difficult for me because I couldn’t imagine judging someone based on the color of their skin. Just seems quite dumb. I judge people based on their choices. I don’t like black “culture” or what is socially Defined as such. Has nothing to do with skin color, and I just assume most people that are considered racist just don’t like the “culture” same as me. A black guy wearing a suit standing next to a white guy wearing a suit looks no different to me. So I kind of chaulk up most “racism” with cultural dislike. And the way you behave is your choice and open for criticism in my opinion. A black guy walking down the street with well fitted clothes and lacking any discernible “swagger” or “pimp lean” garners no difference in response by me than a white guy doing the same.

The thing is, this post is full of racial bias. Pimp lean? Well fitted clothes?

If you don't like what you consider black culture, then you're not going to like a lot of black people and not hire them because of them acting a way you don't relate to apparently makes you feel they won't be a good employee. It's a bias against things that are unfamiliar and are being judged negatively.

It seems like you're saying that as long as a black guy acts white or "passes," then you have no problem with them. That's something people of color are all too familiar with. Disliking someone for their culture isn't a whole lot better than basing it on their skin color. It's all tied together.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Your article seems kind of hard to comprehend as Asians are the highest earners in the u.s. and are stereotyped as being highly intelligent and diligent workers.

brings into question the validity of the study. Based on these things you’d think everyone would need to “Asian-up” their resumes.

There are multiple studies demonstrating that people with black sounding resumes get fewer callbacks. That people with black sounding names get fewer responses when contacting local governments.

It's not about any single study to poke holes in. Systemic racism is unfortunately very real with plenty of history and data to support it.

 

[Gniwder]

It's actually 3.5% by the 2016 census and the visible minority population is 22.3%. Then add to that the black population of the united states is 14.7%.

Aboriginal population is 5%, significantly higher than blacks, considering how First Nation people are treated in northern Canada, I'd like to see efforts to increase their participation.

Also, the reason why the minority population is over 20% is because Asian population tripled between 1996 and 2016, comprising over 15% in 1996. You will see more Asian participation in hockey, that's almost guaranteed.

Canada is changing, 15 years ago when I went to Thompson Manitoba, I was treated like a First Nation person because I'm not white. Not a pleasant experience getting denied service at restaurants. Thompson, and other rural cities had a large influx of immigration the past 15 years, and now their attitude towards minorities have shifted considerably. Racism does not disappear overnight though, but at least they realize now that there are more than 2 races up there.

I think the focus on black people is entirely politically motivated, considering Canadian history I would prefer more focus on First Nation people.

 

[Gniwder]

The thing is, this post is full of racial bias. Pimp lean? Well fitted clothes?

If you don't like what you consider black culture, then you're not going to like a lot of black people and not hire them because of them acting a way you don't relate to apparently makes you feel they won't be a good employee. It's a bias against things that are unfamiliar and are being judged negatively.

It seems like you're saying that as long as a black guy acts white or "passes," then you have no problem with them. That's something people of color are all too familiar with. Disliking someone for their culture isn't a whole lot better than basing it on their skin color. It's all tied together.

Kinda depends on the job though. My company isn't going to hire any engineer that doesn't come to the interview in a suit. Tie optional, I set that trend.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Aboriginal population is 5%, significantly higher than blacks, considering how First Nation people are treated in northern Canada, I'd like to see efforts to increase their participation.

Also, the reason why the minority population is over 20% is because Asian population tripled between 1996 and 2016, comprising over 15% in 1996. You will see more Asian participation in hockey, that's almost guaranteed.

Canada is changing, 15 years ago when I went to Thompson Manitoba, I was treated like a First Nation person because I'm not white. Not a pleasant experience getting denied service at restaurants. Thompson, and other rural cities had a large influx of immigration the past 15 years, and now their attitude towards minorities have shifted considerably. Racism does not disappear overnight though, but at least they realize now that there are more than 2 races up there.

I think the focus on black people is entirely politically motivated, considering Canadian history I would prefer more focus on First Nation people.

I know what you're saying but politically motivated or not it's a good thing it's finally happening. But I understand your point regarding First Nation people.

In the US, people at least talk about racism against black people. But any discussion of racist treatment and our history with Native Americans is basically non-existent. They're sadly barely part of the conversation. People are still outraged at getting rid of Columbus Day or losing a super racist mascot like Chief Wahoo.

So yes, there is unfortunately a long way to go for native people.

 

[MBH]

Are you claiming, based on the history of the United States, that diversity will happen of its own accord? That's an interesting argument - I'd love to know what evidence it's based on.

There are plenty of places where there is a lot of diversity. Usually, it's poor neighborhoods.
People get money and they want to move out to the burbs, or the country around the city.
Are they running away from crime? Or running away from diversity?
I think it depends on the person.

I live in a community with a lot of white wealthy folks who complain about the lack diversity. Well...duh. You knew that when you moved here, right?
Why do they even want diversity? Just to be seen as saying it? because they had the money to move pretty much anywhere they wanted in Michigan, and chose one the umpteen towns that's white bread.
A lot of the same people oppose schools of choice, that brings kids from those more diverse district into the community.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Kinda depends on the job though. My company isn't going to hire any engineer that doesn't come to the interview in a suit. Tie optional, I set that trend.

Obviously someone should be dressed in a way that's appropriate for the situation.

But the person I quoted was talking about not treating anyone differently walking down the street as long as they wore well fitted clothes and didn't have swagger or "pimp lean."

 

[Gniwder]

I know what you're saying but politically motivated or not it's a good thing it's finally happening. But I understand your point regarding First Nation people.

In the US, people at least talk about racism against black people. But any discussion of racist treatment and our history with Native Americans is basically non-existent. They're sadly barely part of the conversation. People are still outraged at getting rid of Columbus Day or losing a super racist mascot like Chief Wahoo.

So yes, there is unfortunately a long way to go for native people.

Slavery is bad, genocide is worse.

Quite frankly I think liberals are losing sight of the end goal which should be racial equality for all. We acknowledge slavery but not that fact that we all live on stolen land. If there should be reparation, it should go to the Natives. I live on stolen land, I did not participate in slavery.

 

[jkutswings]

There are plenty of places where there is a lot of diversity. Usually, it's poor neighborhoods.
People get money and they want to move out to the burbs, or the country around the city.
Are they running away from crime? Or running away from diversity?
I think it depends on the person.

I live in a community with a lot of white wealthy folks who complain about the lack diversity. Well...duh. You knew that when you moved here, right?
Why do they even want diversity? Just to be seen as saying it? because they had the money to move pretty much anywhere they wanted in Michigan, and chose one the umpteen towns that's white bread.
A lot of the same people oppose schools of choice, that brings kids from those more diverse district into the community.

I didn't say it's non-existent. I said it didn't happen without deliberate action.

There will always be people who judge others on the content if their character, rather than the color of their skin. Sadly, there will always be people who do the reverse. But neither group is a reason to stop working for justice.

 

[Gniwder]

Obviously someone should be dressed in a way that's appropriate for the situation.

But the person I quoted was talking about not treating anyone differently walking down the street as long as they wore well fitted clothes and didn't have swagger or "pimp lean."

Fair enough. I hold the door open for everyone, it seems to surprise people in Detroit/Pontiac. Then again, I've never had any issues in Detroit or Pontiac where I worked for 3 years.

Every fight I've ever been in has been with a very large white person. Go figure.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Slavery is bad, genocide is worse.

Quite frankly I think liberals are losing sight of the end goal which should be racial equality for all. We acknowledge slavery but not that fact that we all live on stolen land. If there should be reparation, it should go to the Natives. I live on stolen land, I did not participate in slavery.

I mean, they're both awful so it's hard to get into a bad worse conversation, but I hear ya.

In the US it seems like kids are still taught that the pilgrims came over and hung out with the Indians and had turkey and stuffing and it was all super great and now we live in America. Few know about the Trail of Tears or the Long Walk. There's a long way to go.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

i'm unsure of the answer but i wonder just how many minorities would be qualified for assistant coach, head coach, or front office positions in an organization. overall hockey and the jobs that are available almost always go to the guys already in the old boys club, thats why you see the same head coaches get recycled year after year. hockey can be more diverse but i just wonder how many people of minorities would be qualified for these jobs, admittedly i don't know enough about it, its possible they are not qualified or they are being looked over for their old friends, but the nhl also blocks out european coaches from coming over hear and even getting assistant coaching jobs. rikard gronberg from all accounts seems like a guy who could come from europe and coach in the nhl, but who knows if he ever will.

 

[MBH]

I didn't say it's non-existent. I said it didn't happen without deliberate action.

There will always be people who judge others on the content if their character, rather than the color of their skin. Sadly, there will always be people who do the reverse. But neither group is a reason to stop working for justice.

Well, I think there's a fundamental difference in believing how justice is defined, let alone achieved.
There are a lot of people who just say, "get government out of the way, people will achieve what they can."
I don't subscribe to that much.
At the same time, the teachings of critical race theory have proven harmful and destructive. I would not trust any of these CRT white folks to have decision-making power on just about anything.

You want to end racism? You eliminate the conditions that allow demagogues to exploit fear/angst/frustration.
You look study the racists and say, "how did they get this way" and how can we prevent future generations from becoming this way.
Hint: It has nothing to do with lectures on white fragility, white privilege and whiteness.

 

[Ezekial]

I guess it’s difficult for me because I couldn’t imagine judging someone based on the color of their skin.

Judging someone for wearing baggy clothes and walking with a "gangster lean" though, you can imagine doing that, right? Now imagine judging someone for their skin color.

Seems like an easy transition.
Even though you're not racist how could you sit there with a straight face and act like racism isn't real just because you don't partake.

 

[Syckle78]

Judging someone for wearing baggy clothes and walking with a "gangster lean" though, you can imagine doing that, right? Now imagine judging someone for their skin color.

Seems like an easy transition.
Even though you're not racist how could you sit there with a straight face and act like racism isn't real just because you don't partake.

I mean if you're inherently racist I guess that would be an easy transition. But judging someone for how they carry themselves and the color of their skin are worlds apart for anyone that isn't.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Judging someone for wearing baggy clothes and walking with a "gangster lean" though, you can imagine doing that, right? Now imagine judging someone for their skin color.

Seems like an easy transition.
Even though you're not racist how could you sit there with a straight face and act like racism isn't real just because you don't partake.

Those things are choices. Skin color is not. I judge choices, your choices define you.

 

[lomekian]

I guess it’s difficult for me because I couldn’t imagine judging someone based on the color of their skin. Just seems quite dumb. I judge people based on their choices. I don’t like black “culture” or what is socially Defined as such. Has nothing to do with skin color, and I just assume most people that are considered racist just don’t like the “culture” same as me. A black guy wearing a suit standing next to a white guy wearing a suit looks no different to me. So I kind of chaulk up most “racism” with cultural dislike. And the way you behave is your choice and open for criticism in my opinion. A black guy walking down the street with well fitted clothes and lacking any discernible “swagger” or “pimp lean” garners no difference in response by me than a white guy doing the same.

Sadly, your intended capacity for colour blindness is far from universal. Of course we all have prejudices, but in order to avoid being led by them, you have to be conscious of the ones you have and the ones you could have under certain circumstances, and not be afraid to recognise that sometimes an adverse reaction you have to someone, may say more about you than them. Most people prefer to avoid difficult self-reflection.

As for culture, that's far trickier. Which elements of a culture does a person carry, and which do they choose not to. When I was 15 I was into gangster rap, rude boy suits, and would bowl down the streets with my friends who also were. Equally, I was pathologically polite, abhorred violence, and my mother's influence made me much more respectful of girls than most of my peers. And of course, I was terrified of actual 'bad-men'.

As you say, choices and values define a person, but sometimes if that person comes from a cultural backgrond very different to your own, it can be difficult to see those values clearly if they are obscured by the 'costume' or language of elements that you don't like (I'm using 'you' generally btw!). I used to hold prejudices against people from more affluent backgrounds, because I saw negative examples, but working in a field where most people are from slightly different backgrounds than I, has helped me who actually is making destructive choices and who are just wearing some of the trappings of their influences. But this is a different, and very complex, if interesting, topic! I'm just glad I was lucky enough to grow up in one the most diverse (in lots of senses) cities in the world, which have helped me keep my potential prejudices in check.

 

[RedMenace]

Hey guys, what's going on in this thre--

 

[Ezekial]

Those things are choices. Skin color is not. I judge choices, your choices define you.

I'm just saying, people do, and you brushing off the entire topic because "I don't do it" and "why would a successful busniness man not think with his wallet?" marginalizes the issue.
Pretty easy answer, it's because he's a racist piece of shit.

There's successful business men that pick their accountant based on the fact they belong to a certain religion.