News Article: O/T: NHL league-wide...HDA releases statement: Done with NHL etc.

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

this isn't the NBA/NFL (thank God)...now NBA ratings @ lowest point since '93-'94 (when NHL ratings were 3rd, ahead of NBA).

kinda silly considering QB just got picked @ 2OA.

Hockey Diversity Alliance done with the NHL; will operate separately and independently | TradeRumours.com

HOCKEY DIVERSITY ALLIANCE DONE WITH THE NHL; WILL OPERATE SEPARATELY AND INDEPENDENTLY

The Hockey Diversity Alliance, formed by current and former NHLers to 'eradicate and eliminate systemic racism and intolerance in hockey,' has released a scathing statement on the NHL.

"The HDA is grateful for the support we're received from the public," said the statement. "Unfortunately the support we hoped from the NHL was not delivered and instead the NHL focused on performative public relations efforts that seemed aimed at quickly moving past the important conversations about race needed in the game."

"We have waited many months for a response to the common sense HDA pledge we proposed and it is clear the NHL is not prepared to make any measurable commitments to end systemic racism in hockey."

The organization added it will continue to operate "separate and independent of the NHL" and attempt to implement educational programs and changes to the sport to offer more role models for the "Black and Brown communities who want to play hockey."

Members of the HDA include Evander Kane, Matt Dumba, Nazem Kadri, Akim Aliu, Wayne Simmonds and others. The pledge the group is referring to asks the NHL to commit to many measurable goals, including increasing:

-the number of Black executives in the NHL to 3.5% before the end of the 2024/2025 season;

-the employment of Black hockey-related personnel to 5% before the end of the 2020/2021 season; and 8% before the end of the 2022-2023 season;

-the employment of Black non hockey-related personnel to 10% before the end of the 2020-2021 season; and 12.5% before the end of the 2022-2023 season.

It also asks that the NHL "implement anti-racism and unconscious bias education within the League and make it mandatory for all League employees before the start of the 2020-2021 season."

You can read a full copy of the requests here.

Click to read more...

 

[ShanahanMan]

this isn't the NBA/NFL (thank God)...now NBA ratings @ lowest point since '93-'94 (when NHL ratings were 3rd, ahead of NBA).

kinda silly considering QB just got picked @ 2OA.

Hockey Diversity Alliance done with the NHL; will operate separately and independently | TradeRumours.com

HOCKEY DIVERSITY ALLIANCE DONE WITH THE NHL; WILL OPERATE SEPARATELY AND INDEPENDENTLY

The Hockey Diversity Alliance, formed by current and former NHLers to 'eradicate and eliminate systemic racism and intolerance in hockey,' has released a scathing statement on the NHL.

"The HDA is grateful for the support we're received from the public," said the statement. "Unfortunately the support we hoped from the NHL was not delivered and instead the NHL focused on performative public relations efforts that seemed aimed at quickly moving past the important conversations about race needed in the game."

"We have waited many months for a response to the common sense HDA pledge we proposed and it is clear the NHL is not prepared to make any measurable commitments to end systemic racism in hockey."

The organization added it will continue to operate "separate and independent of the NHL" and attempt to implement educational programs and changes to the sport to offer more role models for the "Black and Brown communities who want to play hockey."

Members of the HDA include Evander Kane, Matt Dumba, Nazem Kadri, Akim Aliu, Wayne Simmonds and others. The pledge the group is referring to asks the NHL to commit to many measurable goals, including increasing:

-the number of Black executives in the NHL to 3.5% before the end of the 2024/2025 season;

-the employment of Black hockey-related personnel to 5% before the end of the 2020/2021 season; and 8% before the end of the 2022-2023 season;

-the employment of Black non hockey-related personnel to 10% before the end of the 2020-2021 season; and 12.5% before the end of the 2022-2023 season.

It also asks that the NHL "implement anti-racism and unconscious bias education within the League and make it mandatory for all League employees before the start of the 2020-2021 season."

You can read a full copy of the requests here.

And isn’t Raymond half black?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

And isn’t Raymond half black?

I don't know. Last night I watched his post draft interview & then saw a picture of him (his very curly hair) seems like he certainly could be non Anglo-Saxon.

 

[jkutswings]

It's lousy that the NHL isn't a lot more proactive, both from a social justice standpoint and really in general.

And drafting a player who happens to be of black or brown ethnicity isn't the issue. It's how players are treated once they're in the league. And seeing a lack of diversity in coaching/management/ownership, when there are currently so many mediocre individuals who keep getting recycled from team to team.

I wish the HDA luck. It's a long uphill battle, but I hope they continue to fight it and make progress.

 

[cjeagle]

I am a bit surprised that some of the players in the HDA group are not really black like Matt Dumba(half Filipino) and Nazem Kadir(Lebanese) yet the group is pushing for increasing the percentage of NHL hires for only black individuals and not other minorities that are similarly less represented in the NHL like Native Americans, Hispanics or Asians.

That program they are pushing sounds a bit like racist myself.

If they really want to be taken seriously about diversity, they shouldn't be emphasizing only individuals based on one race but also qualifications, etc.

 

[Tundra]

End Racism. Pretty Bold Mission Statement. Maybe we could reverse gravity too. Some of these groups are caricature of themselves.

 

[Bench]

That program they are pushing sounds a bit like racist myself.

If you find yourself nodding along with this, you're tuned in with the frequency required to hear dog whistles.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

You can’t force diversity or pander identity politics

 

[jkutswings]

You can’t force diversity or pander identity politics

Are you claiming, based on the history of the United States, that diversity will happen of its own accord? That's an interesting argument - I'd love to know what evidence it's based on.

 

[Snuggs]

Hmm. I support everything but the separation... Common now. How you really going to fix and influence the NHL if you wont even work with the NHL directly. I'm not blaming HDA either, NHL prolly jerks and move slow to change things but idk... Seems like more could of been done together vs seperate. Shame.

Some of the numbers and demands are small and reasonable.

 

[BinCookin]

""
-the number of Black executives in the NHL to 3.5% before the end of the 2024/2025 season;

-the employment of Black hockey-related personnel to 5% before the end of the 2020/2021 season; and 8% before the end of the 2022-2023 season;

-the employment of Black non hockey-related personnel to 10% before the end of the 2020-2021 season; and 12.5% before the end of the 2022-2023 season.

""

This is not the way to look at racism.

I love Wayne Simmonds, one of my favourite players.
I love Trevor Thompson with the Red Wings.


But you can't just recreate these people in Hockey. Most hockey people are from Russia, Europe and Canada. The population just is not that big a % of Black people.

Employment % is not related to racism. (at least its not the main factor here)...


I could see how the NHL has issues with this group.... How can you make them happy when most of hockey happens to be white people.

 

[Snuggs]

""
-the number of Black executives in the NHL to 3.5% before the end of the 2024/2025 season;

-the employment of Black hockey-related personnel to 5% before the end of the 2020/2021 season; and 8% before the end of the 2022-2023 season;

-the employment of Black non hockey-related personnel to 10% before the end of the 2020-2021 season; and 12.5% before the end of the 2022-2023 season.

""

This is not the way to look at racism.

I love Wayne Simmonds, one of my favourite players.
I love Trevor Thompson with the Red Wings.


But you can't just recreate these people in Hockey. Most hockey people are from Russia, Europe and Canada. The population just is not that big a % of Black people.

Employment % is not related to racism. (at least its not the main factor here)...


I could see how the NHL has issues with this group.... How can you make them happy when most of hockey happens to be white people.

God dang, this is the ignorance I think they're going up against. No one argued the last point, everyone knows that. It's not a justification for not hiring basically any black/brown/minority individuals.

Agreeing to those numbers, attempting, and missing them is progress. Laughing at it and statements like yours is where we are at and have been for a long time. I also don't believe you hire someone just on race alone white, black or whatever. Hire someone based on talent but I've gotta beleive if minority people had at least just more of an opportunity, like a Rooney rule we'd see more hires vs forcing hires. No one is saying any particular person at all is racist here, it's systemic meaning it kinda just happens through the white guy buddy system year in and out. It's not on purpose, but it's time to recognize it and give minority's an opportunity to have a set at the table.

10% non-hockey personnel should be super easy... The hires would have to have other skills outside of hockey... so, idk. Shouldn't be hard if you actually focused on attempting diversity.

Everyone knows the statement you made based on socioeconomic's.

 

[BinCookin]

Snuggs... I will fully admit to ignorance IF...

Show me the large number of black players/management (ANYONE) looking for a job on NHL teams or for the league.

Most scouts are former players.
Most Management are former players.


I think setting some kind of random % is weird.

Here is another way to look at it...
"Where are the asians in the NHL? Why are there not more asians. We should be able to hire... and infact shame teams who do not hire at least 5% asians. I mean they can be accountants and other non-hockey things right?

Meanwhile we are ignoring that this sport just isn't played to any large extent in any asian country in the world...

I am all for programs or charities that help get more kids involved in the sport.
I am all for lots of ideas to fix issues like this.

I just think REQUIRING, some x % of hires to be a certain race is not the way to fix this problem.

But without delving too far down this road. My point was, I could see why the NHL is not fully embracing this idea... (requiring X% of certain races to be hired) and based on the original post, it seems like this is what the HDA is doing. I may be wrong about what the HDA is doing, but in the original post, it seemed like those are big goals.

 

[BinCookin]

TLDR version:

Hire people on Merit, not race.

 

[jkutswings]

TLDR version:

Hire people on Merit, not race.

Completely agree. But unfortunately there are decision makers out there that DON'T hire based on race. Or do hire based on nepotism, or any number of other bad reasons instead of merit.

Rooney rules and quotas are very imperfect, to say the least. But the ultimate goal is to change thinking in the long term and get everybody to hire based on merit. Yet the first step towards that is ensuring everybody has at least a chance to get in the door.

 

[lomekian]

Always great having the ignorant reveal themselves. Just like all those who responded to BLM earlier this year with 'all lives matter'. This is not to say that we should chastise or ignore those that fall into these camps, as that achieves nothing, but rather it highlights the breadth of genuine lack of understanding (oft exploited by those in power or pursuing power). Most people really aren't particularly prejudiced, but equally if one has never experienced or observed the relentless drip of discrimination that underpins cultural norms, it can be hard to understand its impact or recognise how widespread and pervasive it is.

In this case, some of the targets and their timescales may be optimistic, but garnering a commitment to try to hit them will still inevitably create progress.
Of course, we all want real meritocracy, but in order to achieve that you need to give things a nudge in a way that increases the diversity in visible positions. At present non-white candidates have little or no track record of opportunity to prove themselves, and thus are often not given the same consideration. The lack of experience of people of colour flourishing in those roles will colour (if you excuse the term) the opinions of employers, usually quite unconsciously. Of course this puts a pressure on minority candidates to be successful if given an opportunity otherwise the opposite of the desired effect will happen, which have seen before with ill thought out positive discrimination by well meaning people, which leads to token hires to tick boxes rather than really drilling down to find the best minority candidates.

In the most simple terms, the more people of minorities that get a shot at positions of prominence, the more people get used to the idea, so hiring minority candidates no longer seems like a statement or 'unusual' or 'progressive'. The whole reason why we need well implemented positive discrimination based on quality rather than box ticking is when we see a black coach or a black executive or even a black player, (for black read any ethnic minority), their skin town or bloodlines should be an afterthought, not a permanent adjective, point of difference or defining characteristic.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Always great having the ignorant reveal themselves. Just like all those who responded to BLM earlier this year with 'all lives matter'. This is not to say that we should chastise or ignore those that fall into these camps, as that achieves nothing, but rather it highlights the breadth of genuine lack of understanding (oft exploited by those in power or pursuing power). Most people really aren't particularly prejudiced, but equally if one has never experienced or observed the relentless drip of discrimination that underpins cultural norms, it can be hard to understand its impact or recognise how widespread and pervasive it is.

In this case, some of the targets and their timescales may be optimistic, but garnering a commitment to try to hit them will still inevitably create progress.
Of course, we all want real meritocracy, but in order to achieve that you need to give things a nudge in a way that increases the diversity in visible positions. At present non-white candidates have little or no track record of opportunity to prove themselves, and thus are often not given the same consideration. The lack of experience of people of colour flourishing in those roles will colour (if you excuse the term) the opinions of employers, usually quite unconsciously. Of course this puts a pressure on minority candidates to be successful if given an opportunity otherwise the opposite of the desired effect will happen, which have seen before with ill thought out positive discrimination by well meaning people, which leads to token hires to tick boxes rather than really drilling down to find the best minority candidates.

In the most simple terms, the more people of minorities that get a shot at positions of prominence, the more people get used to the idea, so hiring minority candidates no longer seems like a statement or 'unusual' or 'progressive'. The whole reason why we need well implemented positive discrimination based on quality rather than box ticking is when we see a black coach or a black executive or even a black player, (for black read any ethnic minority), their skin town or bloodlines should be an afterthought, not a permanent adjective, point of difference or defining characteristic.

Rich people are going to hire the guys that will help make them more rich.
Successful people want to hire guys that will help make them more successful.

Average people think too much like average people. No skin color is getting in the way of a greedy Rich man and his money. And that’s what it comes down to, who is going to make me the most money.

if you think there is a race problem when it comes to management positions in the nhl maybe that’s just your bias showing. Maybe you wouldn’t hire a black candidate so you can’t imagine someone else doing it.

I’m still waiting to see the line of black guys trying to get an nhl management position.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

The black population in Canada is 2.6%

I feel like that speaks for itself.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Very few of the good, young Black athletes want to play hockey. They will choose basketball, football, baseball and now soccer over hockey. The NBA and NFL will be more successful in offering opportunities to Blacks because so many of their players are Black. It's a fairly common transition from playing career to management. The NHL has a very clear race problem, which is yet another reason so few Blacks want to play in the sport. Combine authoritarian/asshole coaches with racial bias and you will never have more than a fringe presence of Black athletes or Blacks in their front offices.

For some, this is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Frk It]

This thread is going about how I thought it would (spoiler - not good).

this isn't the NBA/NFL (thank God)...now NBA ratings @ lowest point since '93-'94 (when NHL ratings were 3rd, ahead of NBA).

Cringe.

No skin color is getting in the way of a greedy Rich man and his money.

Definitely.

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

 

[TheOtherOne]

You can’t force diversity or pander identity politics

Lol Rosa Parks says "???!"

 

[lilidk]

Very few of the good, young Black athletes want to play hockey. They will choose basketball, football, baseball and now soccer over hockey. The NBA and NFL will be more successful in offering opportunities to Blacks because so many of their players are Black. It's a fairly common transition from playing career to management. The NHL has a very clear race problem, which is yet another reason so few Blacks want to play in the sport. Combine authoritarian/asshole coaches with racial bias and you will never have more than a fringe presence of Black athletes or Blacks in their front offices.

For some, this is a feature, not a bug.

Hockey is very expensive sport. Play basketball , you just need a ball, just go to near school and shoot the hoop . In the end hockey is the least paid athletes .

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Rich people are going to hire the guys that will help make them more rich.
Successful people want to hire guys that will help make them more successful.

Average people think too much like average people. No skin color is getting in the way of a greedy Rich man and his money. And that’s what it comes down to, who is going to make me the most money.

if you think there is a race problem when it comes to management positions in the nhl maybe that’s just your bias showing. Maybe you wouldn’t hire a black candidate so you can’t imagine someone else doing it.

I’m still waiting to see the line of black guys trying to get an nhl management position.

If only that were true, but it is false and there's plenty of data to back it up.

Salaries of people of color versus white people, the likelihood of a resume being chosen if the person has a black sounding name versus white. Even if it's not overt racism we all have implicit biases which have also been proven time and time again.

And hockey still very much has an old boys culture. I'm not saying they're racist, but hiring decisions are often so obviously made when one old white hockey guy hires another old white hockey guy he has a personal relationship with, not their qualifications. That alone makes it hard for anyone to get their foot in the door.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The black population in Canada is 2.6%

I feel like that speaks for itself.

It's actually 3.5% by the 2016 census and the visible minority population is 22.3%. Then add to that the black population of the united states is 14.7%.

 

[PullHard]

This could easily be accomplished if front offices stopped hiring their incompetent friends. Think of the Oilers front office that has had guys in it through many years of incompetence, or Chiarelli quickly getting hired by Benning after somehow screwing up a roster that had McDavid and Draisaitl.

Go through the league and do this. Fenton with Minnesota, Rutherford despite the cups continues to mangle Pittsburgh, who knows wtf has happened in Anaheim for the last ~5 years, etc.

There is no reason guys like the Stewarts, Joel Ward, etc. shouldn't be getting lesser roles in front offices and be able to work their way up. Plenty of old white guys continue to fail upwards in this league.