Confirmed Trade: [NYR/WPG] Jacob Trouba for Neal Pionk and 2019 1st (20 OV) Part II

[BLNY]

I haven't the time to read through part one, so it may have already been said. However:

1. Trouba has a history of being a vocal malcontent.
2. He's got one year before he's a UFA.
3. Winnipeg didn't allow for a sign and trade scenario.
4. Despite not having a NMC, it appears from tweets by the talking heads that Trouba's camp did what they could to limit where the Jets could trade him by using the tactic of threatening not to sign in specific markets.

When you add all that up, you're never going to get full value for a player. Yes. I'm quite certain other teams might have and would have offered more IF they thought they had a chance to sign the player long term. Judging by the value received, I'd say the list of teams Trouba was willing to do that with was very small.

 

[eco's bones]

A few thoughts:

1. Why is the value in this trade any different from the value in like the last 10 comparable trades we have seen? The Karlsson trade. The McDonagh trade. Skinner's trade and all those moves.

People need to realize that with all teams nowadays seeing their future being limited by the cap, contribution/cap hit will be what matters. A guy one year removed from UFA will at best have a contribution/cap hit that is somewhat shady.

And its certainly the same with the possible PK Subban trade.

2. I think people really are underrating Neal Pionk. Look, many just don't understand the impact of usage on metrics. Some math professor said that it doesn't matter as much as some think, and it fits the narrative of people that want to be able to be hockey experts without knowing anything about the game. Quite frankly. Facts are that there are a ton of noise impacting that observation. Especially on the Rangers, the numbers defenders get when getting the toughest shifts are 180' different from what they get when they get the easiest shifts.

A bunch of ranger defenders have under two different NHL coaches failed to step up and take on the toughest defensive assignments. Neal Pionk, 5'11 PMD rookie didn't, and have mostly been the one that have gone up against the best of the East night in and night out. Those shift after shift after shift against AO, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov and co wears on you.

Pionk is down right fantastic at staying with his guy and taking away space and time defensively. When he gets the puck he has very good poise with it, and can get out of pressure.

However, he has one issue. He hasn't been able to value situations and just make the quick out-let pass when he should be able to do that, or hang on to the puck when there is no pass to make. As a result the opponents get to set-up and it has an impact looking at bigger sample size for sure. It should definitely be fixable, and a lot of it could straight itself out if he can get a little easier minutes.

3. The 20 is not a bad pick, albeit I think that this draft is kind of limited to a top 13-14 and then peaking with a great 30-50, but someone good shall fall to 20.

One scenario is that Trouba gets a 1 year deal and then is moved as a rental at the deadline. The pick NYR gets then would probably be a whole notch worse (with the difference between 20 and 27-31 basically being as big as the difference between a 1st and a 2nd).

Pionk was thrown into the deep end. He did okay for a while but he was always in over his head and eventually he cracked. So the first half of the season he was averaging around 25 minutes a night--playing in all situations--matching up against the other team's best players--being the first option powerplay and shorthanded D. This is an undersized second year pro though who spent most of his first year in the AHL.

So after a while you could see Neal's confidence begin to wane.....and he never really got it back--still he was out killing penalties throughout the year. A lot of people hated on him but both Shattenkirk and DeAngelo got much easier assignments--though DeAngelo did get a lot of tough love too but it helped DeAngelo grow. Pionk's game was really on a third pair level but the Rangers didn't have the luxury of being able to shelter all their RD--so he got thrown to the wolves. Someone had to do the job he was asked to do. The fans ended up hating him. Go figure. I think he's a gamer though--he just needs to be put in the right role and not asked to be more than he is.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Great deal for the Rangers. They needed an RD and they got a great one for not too high a price.

 

[Fmrnuckfan95]

Poink is seriously awful, and it's a late first rounder. This is like a charelli trade.

 

[burstnbloom]

Lol I remember the Jets asking for Trocheck or Huberdeau

Last year, they wanted Pastrnak.

 

[Vitto79]

Pionk is no terrible he’s just a 3rd pairing RD that played too much on a bad rebuilding team

Great trade for the Rangers just because it’s essentially a rental Hayes turned into a top RD. Great asset management

 

[Taylorst]

People will be equally disgusted when they find out how much money Trouba is looking for. IIRC on a long-term deal he wanted 8M last year, and that was with 79.5M cap. What is he going to ask next summer, when the cap is like 5-6M more than that and he’s got all the leverage ? I think his asking price will probably start at 10, pretty easily actually.

I basically knew he was done as a Jet last summer when a reporter asked about cashing in, and Trouba just chuckled and said that’s what he’s been trying to do for couple years now.

Maybe he’ll come down on his demands for the right destination but you would think the Jets let him negotiate a contract if they thought that’s the case and he just doesn’t want to sign in Winnipeg. But the fact that they didn’t is probably a good indication of them knowing negotiating with Trouba right know doesn’t increase his value.

Basically we were talking about a 1 year rental despite him being an RFA. So obviously the price wasn’t going to be ideal.

There’s an argument to be made that the Jets would’ve been better off with Trouba for 1 year, however there’s a few things that make it not desirable. Distraction is one thing, as well as not having a 1st for 2 years in a row. Also there’s some slight cap room to be gained (probably) compared to Myers and they need all they can get as keeping their forwards will be tough.

Sucks but it is what it is.

Whether he chooses to re-sign or not will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like NYI swoop in in the end. They’re much closer to being consistently good than the Rangers, who are icing 2 established top 6 forwards for next season barring any further moves (maybe 3 if you count Buchnevich who will get the ice time to put together a more consistent season). Trouba isn’t going to make the Rangers good for next year. It’s very possible he’s traded at the TDL to salvage these assets they gave up, i doubt the re-building Rangers are going to be waiting around for the summer unless they feel confident about their chances to keep him.

And if he does choose to stay, and the Rangers in the end got a good defenseman for cheap, at least it's a team that the Jets could care less about in terms of competition for a while.

Well laid out point. The problem with these owners is overpaying players in a salary cap era.

With karlsson just signing a 11.5 million dollar contract,

Trouba a fantastic younger defenseman for sure will easily start around 10 million and could demand more.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Great trade for the Rangers just because it’s essentially a rental Hayes turned into a top RD. Great asset management

Even more so when you consider that Hayes and Pionk were both signed as UFA's...

 

[Cquant]

Trouba is going to lose the spot of #1RHD to Fox pretty quickly. But, that said, does anyone have a rough line-up for the rangers right now?

 

[Reality Czech]

An I the only one who thinks Trouba is terribly overrated? Not only was a not worried when he was on the ice against the Blues, I was kinda happy. He's not elite from what I have seen. Combine that with the huge ego, I would want no part of this player.

 

[obey86]

Trouba is not getting 10 million. Or 9 million. Just stop.

If Skinner can get 9 million, anything is possible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I understand why Trouba's value was much lower than perceived on here, but man, that return still blows. Just getting DeAngelo instead of Pionk makes that return a lot better. I guess they just really wanted a 1st rounder this year, because this draft is apparently amazing.

An I the only one who thinks Trouba is terribly overrated? Not only was a not worried when he was on the ice against the Blues, I was kinda happy. He's not elite from what I have seen. Combine that with the huge ego, I would want no part of this player.

He's 1000% overrated, but this is still a bad return for him.

He's a #3 defenseman that has an extremely well rounded skill-set. If he repeats what he did last year, he goes firmly into the top pair category. The Jets gave up Trouba for less than LA gave up Muzzin, who's an equal but older defenseman.

 

[Mick Jagr]

Trouba has had one season where he performed like a top pair d. Every other season he's struggled to crack 30 points. That's why his return isn't as big as you'd like.

 

[Tripod]

An I the only one who thinks Trouba is terribly overrated? Not only was a not worried when he was on the ice against the Blues, I was kinda happy. He's not elite from what I have seen. Combine that with the huge ego, I would want no part of this player.

Overrated by some for sure. Like the Jets fan who said Trouba is a better PP Dman than Ghost.

 

[CupInSIX]

Last year, they wanted Pastrnak.

This feels like a fan intervention

 

[obey86]

Except he isn’t signed and wouldn’t talk contract with any team according to reports. This was a rental trade. Will he end up signing with them? Who knows? At any rate it was a terrible deal for the Jets even as a rental. I feel sorry for Pionk. He likely isn’t too happy with how this turned out either. Signs in the Big Apple and gets shipped to Hockey Siberia.

I think this is incorrect. I read that Winnipeg wasn't letting Trouba talk with any other teams, not that Trouba didn't necessarilly want to talk with anyone.

Here's a quote from Trouba after the trade. Makes it sound like he's willing to entertain re-signing at least:

As for his future, Trouba wasn’t ready to discuss whether he was open to signing a long-term deal with the Rangers.

“We haven’t really worried about it. I’m just trying to get through the night and enjoy it and everything that’s going on,” Trouba said. “I’m sure we’ll deal with it in the morning and start those talks in the morning.”

Personal decision for Trouba: Jets weren’t the issue for departing defenceman

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Trouba is going to lose the spot of #1RHD to Fox pretty quickly. But, that said, does anyone have a rough line-up for the rangers right now?

I just want to laugh at you, that is all.

 

[north49er]

An I the only one who thinks Trouba is terribly overrated? Not only was a not worried when he was on the ice against the Blues, I was kinda happy. He's not elite from what I have seen. Combine that with the huge ego, I would want no part of this player.

You're not alone.....

 

[Jumptheshark]

I am amused by how some are shocked by a lower return. Everything trouba did over the last 36 months was about him either getting to a US team or getting him to be a UFA. Whatever plan he has it is not a secret and that took many teams out of the running

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

An I the only one who thinks Trouba is terribly overrated? Not only was a not worried when he was on the ice against the Blues, I was kinda happy. He's not elite from what I have seen. Combine that with the huge ego, I would want no part of this player.

Yes literally the only one on HF

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Pionk was thrown into the deep end. He did okay for a while but he was always in over his head and eventually he cracked. So the first half of the season he was averaging around 25 minutes a night--playing in all situations--matching up against the other team's best players--being the first option powerplay and shorthanded D. This is an undersized second year pro though who spent most of his first year in the AHL.

So after a while you could see Neal's confidence begin to wane.....and he never really got it back--still he was out killing penalties throughout the year. A lot of people hated on him but both Shattenkirk and DeAngelo got much easier assignments--though DeAngelo did get a lot of tough love too but it helped DeAngelo grow. Pionk's game was really on a third pair level but the Rangers didn't have the luxury of being able to shelter all their RD--so he got thrown to the wolves. Someone had to do the job he was asked to do. The fans ended up hating him. Go figure. I think he's a gamer though--he just needs to be put in the right role and not asked to be more than he is.

He actually averaged 22:58 the first half of the season (still quite a bit). He played 25+ 10 times over the course of the season.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Erik is more than twice as valuable than Trouba to most teams and I feel you are seriously underrating Pionk if you think it was a bad return for Trouba. As a Rangers fan I am not sure if I should be happy with this, depends on how the players around pick number 20 turn out.

Are you sure you’re a Rangers fan?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Trouba has had one season where he performed like a top pair d. Every other season he's struggled to crack 30 points. That's why his return isn't as big as you'd like.

This would be the uneducated view-sure.

 

[AB13]

Are you sure you a Rangers fan?

Very sure, are you doubtful just because I don't overhype every new player like some fans?

 

[eco's bones]

He actually averaged 22:58 the first half of the season (still quite a bit). He played 25+ 10 times over the course of the season.

I would think most if not all of those 25 minute + games were in the first half of the season. The Rangers played the shit out of him and eventually it caught up. He's not a first pair quality defenseman. People hate on him but when you're undersized and inexperienced and getting on a nightly basis the Crosby, Ovechkin, Matthews, Bergeron, Kucherov, Barkov, Panarin, Eichel assignments you're going to look bad a lot. I don't know what anyone can realistically take from his season--he was obviously not in a role that suited him. Maybe in the right role he eventually turns out something like Torey Krug but right now he's really a third pairing guy. Towards the end of last year after a lot of misuse he was looking kind of shell shocked.