Nyquist & Tatar

[Oddbob]

Maybe Detroit needs to get rid of the bald assistant coach, that I think runs the PP. Also, maybe Blashill needs to go. I know a bit early for this kind of talk, but they have essentially the same team as last year, and they are producing a lot less, chances, shots, goals. Only better with this year vs last is the amazing play of Mrazek, who without, we would be well out of the playoffs.

The people saying Nyquist and Tatar are like Filppula and Hudler, are bang on, in my opinion. Almost identical, in that all 4 have this uncanny ability to set up great scoring chances, only to pass when they should shoot, and shoot when they should pass. As well as lacking consistent finish to their offensive chances in general.

 

[DetBigWangs]

There some major overraction going on. I think we need to see how they do the first 20 games of next season.

Blashill may be an establishment guy, cut from the same cloth, plug-and-play due behind the bench, but he's still a first year coach. He's still different from Babcock. There has to be some adjustment period where players take his system into real games and see what's going on. Training camp for next year is the first major debug of Blashill's system.

This year, I saw a lot of wasted possessions from players being caught flat footed, dump ins that ring around and go back the other way, etc. These look like plays where the players don't know what their teammates are doing.

 

[Flowah]

Maybe Detroit needs to get rid of the bald assistant coach, that I think runs the PP. Also, maybe Blashill needs to go. I know a bit early for this kind of talk, but they have essentially the same team as last year, and they are producing a lot less, chances, shots, goals. Only better with this year vs last is the amazing play of Mrazek, who without, we would be well out of the playoffs.

The people saying Nyquist and Tatar are like Filppula and Hudler, are bang on, in my opinion. Almost identical, in that all 4 have this uncanny ability to set up great scoring chances, only to pass when they should shoot, and shoot when they should pass. As well as lacking consistent finish to their offensive chances in general.

Tatar shoots plenty. He plays with it too much is the problem.

 

[Bench]

Tatar shoots plenty. He plays with it too much is the problem.

Dear Tatar:

Quit playing with your dinghy!

 

[jaster]

Nyquist and Tatar have been a little frustrating this year, in terms of production, and measured against the expectations that they themselves have set with previous performances. HOWEVER.....

....People need to zoom out and realize that these guys are solid, home-grown complementary offensive players, which is nothing to sneeze at, even if they are slumping a bit this year. And "home-grown" is a valuable trait. They were raised in the Wings system, they know how to play in it, they've proven they belong. Trading them to bring in an outsider, in a lateral move, is a big risk, with little upside.

If one of them is needed in a package to acquire a top-pairing defenseman, or a top-line forward, then so be it. Short of that, trading them for the sake of trading them, or looking to upgrade the role (that of a complementary offensive player), is foolish. It's a case of the grass being greener.

 

[Oddbob]

Tatar shoots plenty. He plays with it too much is the problem.

My point is, he so often will make a sweet dangle, put himself in an awesome close in chance, and then pass off to a worse shooter in a worse shooting position. He and Nyquist have both done it way too often this year. Been frustrating watching them waste so many beautiful opportunities.

 

[ap3x]

I'm not sure if my sarcastic meter is broken.

But I'll say eventually created chances don't mean crap id you never get results.

Cool story, bro. It's just in your team mate's hands if you suck like hell/are invisible or having a pretty good game.
Created chances don't mean crap - no matter how good they are.

 

[Reddwit]

Maybe Detroit needs to get rid of the bald assistant coach, that I think runs the PP. Also, maybe Blashill needs to go. I know a bit early for this kind of talk, but they have essentially the same team as last year, and they are producing a lot less, chances, shots, goals. Only better with this year vs last is the amazing play of Mrazek, who without, we would be well out of the playoffs.

The people saying Nyquist and Tatar are like Filppula and Hudler, are bang on, in my opinion. Almost identical, in that all 4 have this uncanny ability to set up great scoring chances, only to pass when they should shoot, and shoot when they should pass. As well as lacking consistent finish to their offensive chances in general.

What the...?

Filppula didn't break 20 goals until he was 28 and in his 6th full season. He's scored 25 goals once and was 30 by the time he did it.

Tatar scored nearly 20 in his first season, nearly 30 in his 2nd season and will get 20+ again this year. Nyquist scored more than 25 in both of his first 2 full seasons.

Both guys shoot more than Filppula and pick their spots better, too.

As for Hudler, both are a million times the skater than Hudler is and engage more than Hudler also. Hudler is probably smarter than all of them though.

Not even close to identical.

 

[jcbio11]

The thread is based on a wrong premise. Nyquist and Tatar are 2nd line wingers.

Isn't Tatar more like a 3rd liner? I mean the minutes he plays would indicate that.

 

[obey86]

Tatar played just 9 minutes last night.

 

[Reddwit]

Tatar played just 9 minutes last night.

Great timing to cut his TOI, Blash. Right when he's starting to look like his old self.

Meanwhile, Justin Abdelkader played almost 24 minutes last night. He was SECOND in TOI among ALL Wings. Not forwards - ALL wings. He played more than 5/6 of our defenseman and all of our forwards. The dude has 1 point and is -3 in his past 5 games. Better play him like a top pairing defenseman.

Blashill's bench management makes him look like the rookie he is.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Great timing to cut his TOI, Blash. Right when he's starting to look like his old self.

Meanwhile, Justin Abdelkader played almost 24 minutes last night. He was SECOND in TOI among ALL Wings. Not forwards - ALL wings. He played more than 5/6 of our defenseman and all of our forwards. The dude has 1 point and is -3 in his past 5 games. Better play him like a top pairing defenseman.

Blashill's bench management makes him look like the rookie he is.

Abdelkader is way more worthy of those minutes than Tatar imo.

 

[DatsDeking]

Great timing to cut his TOI, Blash. Right when he's starting to look like his old self.

Meanwhile, Justin Abdelkader played almost 24 minutes last night. He was SECOND in TOI among ALL Wings. Not forwards - ALL wings. He played more than 5/6 of our defenseman and all of our forwards. The dude has 1 point and is -3 in his past 5 games. Better play him like a top pairing defenseman.

Blashill's bench management makes him look like the rookie he is.

It might have a lot to do with the fact that Abby plays on the PK which was used pretty heavily last night. He also plays the PP and plays wing on our 1st line with Z & Dats. If we're rolling the Euro Twins, Abby comes with the territory. Add that time to his PP and PK time and that will put you ahead of players like Tatar who play our "2nd line" and who are on the 2nd PP unit and don't PK.

 

[Shaman464]

Great timing to cut his TOI, Blash. Right when he's starting to look like his old self.

Meanwhile, Justin Abdelkader played almost 24 minutes last night. He was SECOND in TOI among ALL Wings. Not forwards - ALL wings. He played more than 5/6 of our defenseman and all of our forwards. The dude has 1 point and is -3 in his past 5 games. Better play him like a top pairing defenseman.

Blashill's bench management makes him look like the rookie he is.

You mean a man set to make 4.3 million a season and who is on pace for around 40 points and less than 20 goals shouldn't be our top forward?!

 

[Reddwit]

Abdelkader is way more worthy of those minutes than Tatar imo.

In no world is Abdelkader worth so much more than Tatar that he deserves to play 265% more than him. Its not like Abdelkader played 24 minutes and while Tatar (and Athanasiou) were playing 14-15.

 

[Reddwit]

It might have a lot to do with the fact that Abby plays on the PK which was used pretty heavily last night. He also plays the PP and plays wing on our 1st line with Z & Dats. If we're rolling the Euro Twins, Abby comes with the territory. Add that time to his PP and PK time and that will put you ahead of players like Tatar who play our "2nd line" and who are on the 2nd PP unit and don't PK.

If he's playing that much on the PK, then that's all the more reason not to put his tired ass out on the PP and even strength for 20 minutes.

 

[Ezekial]

Great timing to cut his TOI, Blash. Right when he's starting to look like his old self.

Meanwhile, Justin Abdelkader played almost 24 minutes last night. He was SECOND in TOI among ALL Wings. Not forwards - ALL wings. He played more than 5/6 of our defenseman and all of our forwards. The dude has 1 point and is -3 in his past 5 games. Better play him like a top pairing defenseman.

Blashill's bench management makes him look like the rookie he is.

6.5 minutes of special teams play....

Any player who gets both SH and PP time is gonna put up some extra minutes occasionally, especially a player who plays on a team's first line.

 

[Henkka]

Tatar played just 9 minutes last night.

Looks like you don't deserve more, if you have only 1 scoring attempt in 9 minutes.

Athanasiou had 7 attempts in 11 minutes.

Time to get work. HARD. Not get lazy.

 

[DatsDeking]

If he's playing that much on the PK, then that's all the more reason not to put his tired ass out on the PP and even strength for 20 minutes.

While I agree with that idea, I'm not sure I'd sit Abby on the PP especially given how abysmal ours has been. He's a needed net front presence. I don't think our lack of production on the PP has been because he's too tired.

 

[Flowah]

Tatar was seriously lackluster for like 10 games now. He *lost* his IT. He can get it back by driving to the net hard like he did once last night. Again, neither he nor Nyquist are Z/D. They don't get the benefit of the doubt for that long. 5+ games of mediocrity is enough to start cutting their minutes. And it's not just not producing it's the way they've been playing. Slow, perimeter, weak on the puck, turnovers. Just very disappointing.

 

[Bench]

Tatar was seriously lackluster for like 10 games now. He *lost* his IT. He can get it back by driving to the net hard like he did once last night. Again, neither he nor Nyquist are Z/D. They don't get the benefit of the doubt for that long. 5+ games of mediocrity is enough to start cutting their minutes. And it's not just not producing it's the way they've been playing. Slow, perimeter, weak on the puck, turnovers. Just very disappointing.

They both have these moments where they are too big for their britches.

While we love the creativity and skill we've seen from them, the kind of soft perimeter play you're talking about is exactly the thing we slam skill players for in the NHL game. Thinking you can dipsey doodle your way through two defenders or trying that classic pull up at the blueline Gretzky move over and over.

It's kind of stunning to me these guys don't take a page out of the Zetterberg book and initiate contact, but with the puck on the far side of the body, giving you a little more time to make a play and evade a turnover. Part of this is Zetterberg's feet aren't as quick as when he was 25, but the other part is he's forcing a battle which a defender has to engage him completely and fight for the puck, rather than wait for a stickhandling error or forced pass.

I think some of these guys buy into their own narrative of being talented skill players and forget they need to engage physically against better defenders to open up the ice.

 

[14ari13]

That goal by Nyquist was filthy. Best goal of the season.

 

[Reddwit]

Looks like you don't deserve more, if you have only 1 scoring attempt in 9 minutes.

Athanasiou had 7 attempts in 11 minutes.

Time to get work. HARD. Not get lazy.

That's like comparing Larkin's efforts to any other vets. The young kids are always balls to the wall. *Reminisces about Nyquist a few years ago.*

I can guarantee you most veterans don't have much in 9 minutes. And one shift with a few good seconds could change that in one shift.

Tatar and Nyquist have been looking like themselves for 2 games. Abby has been meh for at least a week. Don't give me this ******** that Tatar should be getting 4th line minutes when he's back to playing the best that he's been in a few months, especially if you're subscribing to the idea that good play = reward of more minutes and bad play = 4th line minutes.

Tatar was seriously lackluster for like 10 games now. He *lost* his IT. He can get it back by driving to the net hard like he did once last night. Again, neither he nor Nyquist are Z/D. They don't get the benefit of the doubt for that long. 5+ games of mediocrity is enough to start cutting their minutes. And it's not just not producing it's the way they've been playing. Slow, perimeter, weak on the puck, turnovers. Just very disappointing.

Or maybe its not. I remember Tatar and Nyquist having these stretches under Babcock. He never dumped their minutes to single digits. Maybe that's why they're struggling (or maybe not, since everyone else on the roster is struggling to score too). He also never blocked a hardworking, big (relative to the rest of the team), fast forward's minutes despite putting up numbers (AA), and also didn't gift Z/D/A millions of minutes in their twilight years.

Not every player responds to a slump and cut minutes with rejuvenation. Whatever Blash is doing, it isn't really working, at least from an offensive numbers standpoint.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Tatar is a veteran? Didn't he start his full-time NHL career like 2-3 years ago? Larkin will be like 20 when he has the same level of NHL experience that Tatar has now.

 

[Bench]

Tatar is a veteran? Didn't he start his full-time NHL career like 2-3 years ago? Larkin will be like 20 when he has the same level of NHL experience that Tatar has now.

He's pretty close to what you'd consider a veteran. He has over 240 NHL games and he's 25-years-old. He's beyond what you'd consider the development years for a forward.

Kind of an academic debate, though.