Nyquist & Tatar
- Thread starter Frk It
- Start date
The whole PP blows. Didn't Nyquist get most of his goals on the PP last year? Or at least a lot of them.
The PP looks the same as it did last season. Perimeter passing, not a whole lot of cross ice passes. Just somehow getting fewer shots taken and fewer shots through. I really dislike the blue line perimeter crap. And they take so long to make decisions with the puck it gives the PK time to adjust and find everyone else on the ice. You have to move that puck around quickly and get the defenders chasing a little.
The PP looks the same as it did last season. Perimeter passing, not a whole lot of cross ice passes. Just somehow getting fewer shots taken and fewer shots through. I really dislike the blue line perimeter crap. And they take so long to make decisions with the puck it gives the PK time to adjust and find everyone else on the ice. You have to move that puck around quickly and get the defenders chasing a little.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Whole power play is a mess dude. Richards looks terrible on the point. Very little movement from the point in general.
Also, Green doesn't even look to shoot one timers, did he forget he has a good shot or something?
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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We are terrible at getting the defense to move and spread out. All you have to do is what the Rangers did, just sit tight together, and you can block 80% of our shots.
Well, we all know that he wasn't supposed to keep that shooting rate, considering that he had to adapt his play after his high scoring seasons.
So it would be more interesting to see how the amount of created chances and assists changed. Still playing way under his potential though, giving you that.
Henkka
Registered User
It doesn't look the same AT ALL. It has been horrible mess with Richards on the point and some crazy earlier lookings with Kindl at forwards spot at the start of the season.
Last season they had really quick passing plays and Nyquist was the middle man who got lots of near slot chances and rebound shots. Also Kronwall sometimes surprisingly pinched and did some effective runs on the net when somebody backed him on the blueline. We haven't seen those things at this season. Just standing and passing, no quickness or movement.
***
Now, they have re-united that 1st PP unit. Have to take a deep breath, and say, FINALLY.
--- Abdelkader (net-front)
Datsyuk -- Nyquist -- Zetterberg
------- Kronwall (on point)
Also, Green is back as point-man of the second unit and Pulkkinen plays the left side. Richards off the point (thank god!). Now Green has the same passing axel he used with Ovechkin at Capitals.
----- Larkin (net front)
Pulkkinen -- Tatar -- Richards
------ Green (on point)
At those 1-3-1 formations those guys in the middle score usually most. Best slot for scoring from shot distance with the of a screener. so now itäs time both Nyquist and Tatar get back scoring more.
Same has happened on my Finnish favourite hockey team Tappara for those middle-unit guys in 1-3-1 formation. They score most goals.
Last edited:
Are you sure?
I remember having the same feeling about the PP for several years now. When Dats and Hank were in their prime there was a lot of good movement and lots of quick smart cross ice passes even through the crease. Then for the past few years it's been ******* around with the puck along the point.
Yeah Kronwall used to walk it in and hasn't this season. That and the number of shots we're attempting seems to be the main difference.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I liked Franzen a lot as the net front guy on the PP. He would suck guys down low then pass to the front of the net pretty well.
Didn't Nyquist play on the right side of the PP? Or am I remembering wrong?
Also I don't think guys like Richards and Kronwall are mobile enough at their age to be the lone point man. I think you need better lateral movement back there with just 1 point guy. I think Smith should occupy that role over Richards.
Didn't Nyquist play on the right side of the PP? Or am I remembering wrong?
Also I don't think guys like Richards and Kronwall are mobile enough at their age to be the lone point man. I think you need better lateral movement back there with just 1 point guy. I think Smith should occupy that role over Richards.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
They are what they are - flawed players. Both are smart and, for their size, seem to do a good job staying healthy, but they aren't complete enough to avoid being played by the book. Play them a certain way, and they don't have a way out, sans playing on a line with a much bigger fish.
People are acting like they're bombing out Sheahan-style. They're still both on pace for ~45 points despite playing like crap. If you're expecting 60+ point guys yearly, then you're probably over-estimating them.
And yet...Scoring is down league-wide - the worst since the season-long lockout. And the PP - which should be where small, skilled types thrive - is mediocre at best, which is a team problem.
But really, I think the reason why everyone is harping on them is because they're disappointed. In reality, we should be disappointed with pretty much everyone's performance this year. You can point to the aging of Hank and Datsyuk, but Hank and Datsyuk shouldn't be propping up the offense of literally an entire roster. When only 1 veteran player on your roster who has played out the season has improved (both based on the eye test and statistically), then the problem is endemic.
People are acting like they're bombing out Sheahan-style. They're still both on pace for ~45 points despite playing like crap. If you're expecting 60+ point guys yearly, then you're probably over-estimating them.
And yet...Scoring is down league-wide - the worst since the season-long lockout. And the PP - which should be where small, skilled types thrive - is mediocre at best, which is a team problem.
But really, I think the reason why everyone is harping on them is because they're disappointed. In reality, we should be disappointed with pretty much everyone's performance this year. You can point to the aging of Hank and Datsyuk, but Hank and Datsyuk shouldn't be propping up the offense of literally an entire roster. When only 1 veteran player on your roster who has played out the season has improved (both based on the eye test and statistically), then the problem is endemic.
Players producing less than last year:
Datsyuk - 1.03 > 78
Hank - 86 > 68
Tatar - 68 > 56
Nyquist - 66 > 53
Abby - 62 > 53
Richards - 49 > 41
Green - 63 > 40
Kronwall - 55 > 38
DD - 39 > 30
Helm - 44 > 29
Sheahan - 46 > 22
Jurco - 29 > 17
Kindl - 37 > 24
Andy - 12 > 11
Miller - 16 > 7
Ericsson - 0.18 (same)
Glen - 0.22 (same)
Outliers:
Quincey - 25 < 32 (full year vs. 25 games)
Pulkinnen (both seasons of 31 games) - 26 < 39
Smith - 17 < 25
Henkka
Registered User
This is what I mean. They were ****ing pumped and full of energy on that night against the Champs.
My god that power-play was a beauty.
Good description, Henkka, although I seem to remember them abandoning it towards the end of last season. I too would like to see them give the 1-3-1 another shot.
I think the biggest issue with our power play is the lack of movement by guys without the puck. If a defender knows you aren't going to move after you pass the puck, he is free to commit himself to the guy who receives the pass. You go from a 2 on 1 situation to a 1 on 1 situation. No one ever wants to talk about it, but we are a very lazy team in a lot of ways.
Henkka
Registered User
They have used these 1-3-1 units I posted at latest practise.
I don't Larkin as a net-front (would prefer Sheahan) but at least he adds different dimension. When off from the net, D- BOSS usually does something unpredicable which suffles the PP not being too predictable.
Eh. You're picking when they scored. That's automatically biasing your selection towards good puck movement. You've gotta find videos of when they don't score and how it looks there. Even the ones from this season look good when you pick out just the times we score.
http://redwings.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2015020428
http://redwings.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2015020509
http://redwings.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2015020837
Good movement on those. And some good shooting angles.
http://redwings.nhl.com/club/gamelog.htm?gameType=2&season=20152016&srt=ppgf
Look through them there. Unfortunately you'd need a whole game recap for all their failed PP attempts which I don't have access to.
Obe2kenobe
Registered User
Nyquist and Tatar shouldn't be singled out when as Reddwit posted above, pretty much everyone is producing less than last year. I'm usually one to blame the player over the coach, but when the whole roster is scoring less, I think the coach deserves most of the blame.
Last year the PP was 2nd in the league. And is where Nyquist got most of his goals. This year the PP has looked bad for the most part. Last few seasons Nyquist was successful with Zetterberg and Tatar was with Datsyuk. Yet most of the year Blashill is playing them both with Sheahan. Why hasn't he gone back to what has worked in the past?
I was a fan of a new coach coming in to replace Babcock. But it is looking to me like Blashill has a lot to learn before he can manage a game like Babcock. Playing AA 6 mins a night, playing Z and Dats 24 mins in back to back nights, overplaying Glendenings line. Not playing AA and Larkin in the 3 on 3 OT. These are all rookie coach mistakes if you ask me. We need more than one scoring line. Blashill needs to figure out where Nyquist and Tatar can produce the best. And get them more minutes. I am more dissappointed in Blashill since the all-star break than I am in Nyquist and Tatar.
Last year the PP was 2nd in the league. And is where Nyquist got most of his goals. This year the PP has looked bad for the most part. Last few seasons Nyquist was successful with Zetterberg and Tatar was with Datsyuk. Yet most of the year Blashill is playing them both with Sheahan. Why hasn't he gone back to what has worked in the past?
I was a fan of a new coach coming in to replace Babcock. But it is looking to me like Blashill has a lot to learn before he can manage a game like Babcock. Playing AA 6 mins a night, playing Z and Dats 24 mins in back to back nights, overplaying Glendenings line. Not playing AA and Larkin in the 3 on 3 OT. These are all rookie coach mistakes if you ask me. We need more than one scoring line. Blashill needs to figure out where Nyquist and Tatar can produce the best. And get them more minutes. I am more dissappointed in Blashill since the all-star break than I am in Nyquist and Tatar.
skate skate skate
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Lampedampe
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- Feb 26, 2015
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Pavels Dog
Registered User
I have no idea what they are thinking with the PP units. They seem to put all the passers (Dats, Z, Richards, Green) on one unit, and all the shooters (Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin) on the other. Unsurprisingly, the 1st unit is all pass-pass-pass-pass and the 2nd unit can barely gain zone entry. It's not the PPs only problem, but it's a big one.
And in terms of 5-on-5, Blashill has refused to play Tatar with Datsyuk any extended period of time, despite that being a dynamite duo last year. Nyquist has also not gotten much time with Z, and both of them have often played around 10 minutes per game which is not enough.
And in terms of 5-on-5, Blashill has refused to play Tatar with Datsyuk any extended period of time, despite that being a dynamite duo last year. Nyquist has also not gotten much time with Z, and both of them have often played around 10 minutes per game which is not enough.
Henkka
Registered User
Yeah, great article. I was writing about exactly same thing of that power-play problem.
Funny how they did use that old 1-3-1 unit (Nyquist in the middle) today at practise and that article comes out on same day.
Hopefully they start using that unit also at games.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
He tried going back to the Helm-Datsyuk-Tatar line for a period of time and it was awful. Tatar's most frequent line outside of Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar is with Datsyuk.
For the time being Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader isn't giving bad returns. Tatar needs to bring more.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
True, didn't feel like it lasted long though and it was during a period when Datsyuk did not look like himself. Dats+Z are money so I'm not complaining, but I also don't see Tatar and Nyquist scoring their 28-30 goals while centered by Sheahan/Richards and getting several minutes less TOI than last year. Can't expect them to "take a step forward" when they're getting no opportunity to do so.
The problem is that they aren't useful players when they aren't scoring. For as much as Franzen got **** on for being streaky, at least he brought a nasty edge, created some space, was a decent two way player.
Nyquist has been bringing it a bit as a forechecker, which is nice to see, especially these last couple of games.
And you might be able to cover for a one dimensional guy for a bit when he goes into a slump but two of them at the same time....?
One of them has to go.
Nyquist has been bringing it a bit as a forechecker, which is nice to see, especially these last couple of games.
And you might be able to cover for a one dimensional guy for a bit when he goes into a slump but two of them at the same time....?
One of them has to go.
First year they aren't mainly lining up on Z's and Dats line. Struggling to score and pot 50 points. Maybe they just aren't as good as any of us where hoping. They are both about to enter into there primes. Maybe they tops just have 45-55 point upside.
I think they both actually miss Franzen in the lineup. He was a nice skilled big body that could create space and was a decent passer when not on one of his patent hot streaks
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