Interesting nugget on the latest Portzline/Reed/Lukan podcast that Duchene was openly telling CBJ teammates that he was signing with Nashville while playing on our team.
Confirmed with Link: Nyquist signs with CBJ (4 years, $5.5M AAV)
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
- Start date
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,370
- 24,287
Still a worthwhile pickup. But people were delusional thinking we were actually apart of his long term plans. Maybe if Panarin and/or Bob stayed, but he was always Nashville bound.
I don't think the CBJ tried too hard to keep him either, but it's understandable. They mentioned we tabled an offer about the same as what Nashville offered as a courtesy. But no way we were giving up another first.
This was one where it was the best decision for both sides. Some people around here got too excited by boilerplate interview answers and a couple extra "great crowd" compliments for good measure.
I'll spell it out, even though you do seem to get what I was getting at. People seemed quite a bit more excited about signing Vanek and Cole than they do Nyquist. It also seems like people were more emotionally invested in them not signing than they are with this signing.
The irony is this is all related to my comments about "wanting" (I believe the word I used was glad) Bob and Panarin to not go far into the playoffs because they would be given all the credit and people would be just as negative about the CBJ as they are right now. God only knows how many pages the, "CBJ-ALL IN-was it worth it?" thread would currently be. I mean, it would have ONLY been 4 playoff series and 1 cup win in 20 years. As many will point out around here, that's as mediocre as it gets, eh? So, I'll take this time to ask you what would have been ENOUGH for you personally to not have negative feeling about the team right now? Beating Boston? Carolina? Or all the way against St Louis? Or would it NOT matter, as the team would be terrible now going forward without the champion Russians and the Cowboy anyway?
I'm really not sure you can say we "got worse yesterday".
1st, Ignoring my personal feelings with Bobrovsky, I'm starting to get annoyed that people keep throwing Duchene and Dzingel into the same category as Panarin (or Bob). Dzingel had barely any positive impact and is quite easily replaced by Texier and/or Bemstrom. And like you say, we knew what was coming, Duchene was ALWAYS a rental, so why is he considered a "loss" really? He played 25% of 1 of the last 3 playoff seasons, where the CBJ's play was nowhere near "the best" it has been over multiple stretches in recent time without Duchene. He didn't "carry" the CBJ into the playoffs, and I will add, neither did f***ing Vanek (or Cole). He played well in the playoffs, but like some have commented, even with the points, there was something missing a lot of the time. Doesn't play his 20 minutes the same, it seems. I'd also like to add that he was put into a GREAT position to succeed with GREAT players and on a GREAT team.
To add to this point, and bringing in the -Panarin/Chicago- and the- Panarin/Columbus- point production predictions and perception into things, MAYBE its time we start giving the OTHER TRUE CBJ PLAYERS some credit for making it so easy for these mercenaries to succeed and put up huge ("career") numbers to then sign big contracts in other places.
Also, the teams play the game on the ice. I know you haven't been as negative as some currently around here, but don't think I've forgotten what you and others have said in the past about the team not being good enough in the summer. The boiled/baked/fried comments have come from this, AS THE LAST 3 (now 4) years, many people/CBJ fans have made the same comments that are being made now, and THE TEAM has served up bigger helpings each year. MANY comments made after BOTH the Nash-Dubinsky-Anisimov trade and the Johansen-Jones trade that were so sure that we got "worse", because "better" player gone = BAD, right?
Downplaying Nyquist. He is closer to Duchene than Duchene is to Panarin. Mark my words, there will be plenty of times people make comments about liking Nyquist more than Duchene.
Agreed. For me it's like this:
Dzingel -------------------Nyquist ---- Duchene ------------------------------------------- Panarin
I don't think Nyquist is that great, but I'm excited about the team's future, and all the more so knowing we got some short term help without saddling the team with any bad 7 or 8 year UFA contracts.
I'd like to feel optimistic but losing Panarin is just too big of a hole to fill. Hell, even Bob was expandable given our strong blue line. But Bread was the guy who always had a trick up his sleeve when everyone else was dead on the water. Without our picks it may take a long while until we get to witness someone else take the ice who can have an impact like Panarin had.
Sorry for the downer post, but... it really be like that sometimes
Sorry for the downer post, but... it really be like that sometimes
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,370
- 24,287
People were more excited for those guys because we were adding to the team with zero subtractions, unless you were high on Tyler Motte of course. Nyquist is signing here at the same point in time as three really good players leaving. Even if you count Nyquist himself as a really good player, the difference is still two. So, the negatives, as in good people leaving, in this instance outweigh the positives, as in people coming. You can say top prospects like Foudy, Bemstrom, or even Texier count to this, but people don't see it that way because they were already "here" (as in, CBJ property. They don't seem new even though they technically are new to the roster).
Last years finish has nothing to do with my thoughts on this years roster. If we went all the way to the final and won, yet all three still left, I would still feel the same way about this roster, albeit with the same thought process as I do my Cleveland Cavaliers (Hey, we may struggle now. But it was worth it.) I still think it was worth the effort to go all in.
I don't think this roster is terrible. I don't think its a playoff team, but I don't think its bottom 5 unless the goaltending bottoms out. I see us like the Flyers last year.
People only throw Dzingel into the category of Bob and Panarin because he left as a UFA. That's the only thing they had in common. He wasn't very good here.
Duchene gets lumped in there because he's a great player who only scratched the surface of what he could do on this team. He also played a position of extreme need (this is why his departure is seen as a loss). I do agree last years playoff roster was loaded and he was put in a position to succeed, but we picked him up for that exact reason. He did his job, and ignoring all the optics and variables, I think most people would want to keep him. Dubois and Jenner or not, the center ice on our team isn't very good. And if injuries were to hit, it potentially could be the worst in the league.
Nobody thinks Duchene, Vanek, or Cole carried this team to the playoffs. This has never been said.
Are you implying that Atkinson and Dubois made Panarin a better player than he actually was? If so, I can't agree to that. I don't think its a coincidence that Atkinson has his best career season while playing a near full season with Panarin. He struggled mightily last year until that line was formed, and then he blossomed. Dubois was a lost puppy when he first got there, as most young players are, and that line helped him calm down and play his game. Panarin (and Atkinson) were huge for Dubois' development.
Two years ago, I said the roster wasn't good enough because their record after the 16 game streak wasn't very good. If you want to hold me to that, then fine, I'll just hold you to the whole "REAL CBJ fans will root for this team through everything!" and then turn around months later and say "You know, I'm GLAD we lost to Boston." With last year, I said the team was good enough to make it on paper, but we wouldn't make it in last year due to the drama of Panarin and Bob's situations and I assumed they would be traded. If we trade both of these guys, the loss not only on the ice but psychological would have sunk this team. Hell, it almost sunk the team anyway and we kept them.
I can give credit where it's due. You were right about us and the Johansen-Jones deal, and you wanted it from the start.
I'm fairly certain you weren't even on HF for the Rick Nash trade.
I was pretty obvious when Stone immediately signed with Vegas when traded and Duchene wanted to play it out what was happening. Be interesting to know if Cbus inquired about Stone and/or if they figured he wouldn't sign long term either.
Now Nashville had to make some tough moves to get Duchene (to give up Subban) but as soon as that happened it was over.
Jarmo said he wanted all three(Stone, Duchene and Dzingel) but the price was too high. Would've rather gotten just Stone but we needed a center so
Squirrel in the Hole
Be the best squirrel in the hole
Wings fan coming in peace. Congrats on Nyquist, he'll be a good add and at a reasonable price.
Just thinking, wouldn't Cam Ward be a good choice as you vet backup goalie? He should be reasonable and he's a great vet presence for your younger goalies.
I think Chicago just used him too much last year.
Just thinking, wouldn't Cam Ward be a good choice as you vet backup goalie? He should be reasonable and he's a great vet presence for your younger goalies.
I think Chicago just used him too much last year.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,370
- 24,287
From the looks of it, we're going with the two young guys in net (Korpisalo and Merzlikins).
And judging by the meager deal that Lehner got - 1 year $5m - Jarmo isn't looking too hard for a veteran. I have no interest in Ward, but Lehner would have been a real upgrade, not just insurance.
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2005
- 8,661
- 6,530
Lehner probably needs to prove he can do it again to get the real money. It's great he got his life in order and had a solid season but he only played in half the games there while Griess' numbers were almost equal to his. He needs to prove it wasn't the system.
I would agree, I tend to value him highly because I thought Lehner was great in Buffalo too. But it seems that's just my opinion.
Here's why I like it...
Nyquist chose us. I've been looking online but I am sure someone here knows it...I think he is about the only big UFA signing we have ever had. Yes we have obviously extended people and signed current players to big deals but we won this guy away from other teams. I think that is a good start for future UFAs to look closer at Columbus...
I guess Wiz too but we had his rights as I recall....
Nyquist chose us. I've been looking online but I am sure someone here knows it...I think he is about the only big UFA signing we have ever had. Yes we have obviously extended people and signed current players to big deals but we won this guy away from other teams. I think that is a good start for future UFAs to look closer at Columbus...
I guess Wiz too but we had his rights as I recall....
Xoggz22
Registered User
There's been a lot of discussion about losing the big 4 UFAs. However, if we'r think about the actual team from last year we really only lose 2. Bob and Bread. 80+% of the season was played without Duchene and Dzingel. The team was awful after the deadline until the last 6-8 games. Nyquist isn't Bread but if Bjork and Andy grow even a little and Nyquist is his typical self this is a competitive team. If the locker room was a mess at times... who knows. We need solid goaltending and a step from the kids. I think the Metro is weaker than last year overall. I also think another move is coming. That defense...yowza. it should be top 5 and especially good at moving the puck. Again, goaltending is the biggest question for me.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,627
- 4,191
I agree that we really only lost 2 guys. I think, however, that losing Bread is going to have an impact far greater than his 80 something points. He was key to getting the puck into the zone without relying on the forecheck after a dump in. His overall passing mastery. And his defensive prowess. I see his loss as equal to replacing Bob with 2 inexperienced goalies.
koteka
Registered User
We have been a dominant overtime team the last 2 seasons. 9-3 in 2017-18 and 8-3 last year. Panarin’s wizardry was a big part of that. Overtime is where I think we will miss Panarin the most.
Johansen2Foligno
CBJ Realest
- Jan 2, 2015
- 9,253
- 4,174
Long Live Lyle
Registered User
Horton, Foote. We’ve had a few. Hopefully Nyquist works out better than any of them.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,627
- 4,191
That’s generally my feeling too. The majority of the season was spent without Duchene and Dzingel. The jackets were 35-23-3 (.598) in the 61 regular season games prior to acquiring both duchene and dzingel, and 12-8-1 (.595) in the 21 games after. Those stats tilt slightly in favor of the “after” numbers if we are just looking at before and after Duchene only (because we won the two games vs Ottawa and San Jose prior to getting Dzingel).
If i’m looking at the forward group only, it’s like we are losing Panarin and Duclair, and gaining Nyquist, Texier, and Bemstrom. We will lean more heavily on Anderson and Bjorkstrand than we did last year (both players that played under 14:30 a game and can stand to play more - Anderson, in particular was 9th among forwards in pp time).
It will be hard to replace Panarin, and that is not entirely Nyquist’s burden to bear. We all saw what Texier was able to do at 19 years old in the most important games of the season. Let’s see what he can do given a full summer to train and with a little NHL experience under his belt. We have the depth to offset a loss at wing, full of players that Jarmo is excited for, or that we as fans have been calling to play more. Jarmo usually does not publicly endorse players unless he’s sure.
That second line center spot is obviously what we need to watch, but we are currently sitting with the exact same group that we had going into last year, and we made the playoffs despite the worst seasons of Wennberg and Nash’s respective careers. I am still expecting a trade to address this need, but even if we do nothing there, that
group is the exact same as last year, only a year older. I am actually pretty interested in seeing if Texier or Foudy claim this spot, as both played center for stretches last year. If either one of them step into that spot and show that they are capable of playing in a middle 6 center role, that hole disappears in an instant. Dubois took that spot out of nowhere at the same age and never looked back. Although, we’ve only seen Texier at wing at the NHL level, and the rumblings are less certain that Foudy is NHL ready in management’s eyes. I don’t really see Nyquist being out at center at any point.
Either way - I was immediately happy to hear of Nyquist’s signing. He was always a player that stood out in detroit and got the best of us game after game. Was even more happy once the terms were announced. Getting a surefire top 6 player in free agency with a contract that expires before he is 35 and under $6M is pretty insane.
We may be done in free agency for the next month or so until Jarmo goes bargain shopping in August like he did with Duclair and Gagner, but I doubt that we have seen the final form of this roster. The forward group is currently about 15-deep with a hole at 2C and the defense is about 8-deep with no holes at all and good players penciled in as scratches.
Horton was one of the top two forwards available that offseason, too. It was a shame how that ended. That Jenner-Johansson-Horton line looked so dangerous when they could get together.
