Speculation: Nylander XXIII - The Today Will Be a **** Show One Way or Another Edition (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[Finlandia WOAT]

IF Nylander panics at the last hour and signs and offersheet that a team has submitted before him, how long do the Leafs have to match, and what happens if they match after the 5:00pm deadline?

Leafs have 7 days to match an offersheet. At this point, they'll just wait out the clock. No offer sheet is coming.

 

[Kshahdoo]

And when is it December, 1st?

 

[Coach Parker]

If they match after the 5:00 PM deadline, he is ineligible to play in the NHL until next season. It's just like any other contract.

But they matched so he gets paid right?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

except it's only leverage if he can maneuver it into getting a better deal for himself. Instead all that will happen is Dubas looks slightly bad as Nylander derails his career

Okay, so let me continue the toy store analogy for a moment...

Say Dubas was initially willing to pay $50 for the toy and the owner was willing to sell it for $50. Perhaps after Dubas’ comments, the toy store owner believed that his toy was more valuable, and they got into a fairly heated argument over it, with Babcock and Shanahan making public and unflattering comments about the toy store owner. At that point, the toy store owner may no longer be willing to make that deal, even if Dubas offered $50.

I’m not convinced this is what happened, mind you. I think it’s more likely that this fiasco was going to happen regardless of the comments. But Dubas did give leverage to Nylander with his comments and make himself look bad in the process.

 

[Coach Parker]

Leafs have 7 days to match an offersheet. At this point, they'll just wait out the clock. No offer sheet is coming.

Why can't Nylander and a team have a deal in place to sign the offersheet one hour before to force them to match right away before 5:00pm or take the compensation?

 

[Wayne Primeau]

But they matched so he gets paid right?

Yes.

 

[Coach Parker]

Leafs have 7 days to match an offersheet. At this point, they'll just wait out the clock. No offer sheet is coming.

But the matching of the offersheet is after 5:00 so they cannot have him play this year but he gets paid, correct?

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Okay, let me explain this to those who don’t understand: By saying “we can, and we will”, and therefore making a promise to his impatient and massive fan base, Dubas gave leverage to Nylander. Now, if Dubas fails to sign Nylander, he is in a position where he lied to his fan base. By making that comment, Dubas created increased external motivation for him to sign Nylander. This gave leverage to Nylander.

For a very, very simple analogy, for the posters that don’t understand: Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan are with a 5 year old child in a toy store. The child asks “Kyle, can you and Brendan buy me this super awesome toy?” Dumbass Dubas responds “We can, and we will.” Then, Kyle asks the owner of the store how much the toy costs. Before hearing that comment, the owner of the toy store was willing to sell that toy for $50. But after hearing that comment, the owner of the toy store realizes that he has added leverage, due to dumbass Dubas’ comments, and so he asks for more.

Dubas didn’t have to make that comment. It was completely unnecessary and he gave a ton of leverage to Nylander. That is a big part of why he looks particularly bad here.

Spinning yourself right into the ground on this one buds.

 

[kevsh]

Another question:

IF Nylander panics at the last hour and signs and offersheet that a team has submitted before him, how long do the Leafs have to match, and what happens if they match after the 5:00pm deadline?

Could a team have him sign and if the Leafs match he is ineligible to play for them for the year but he collects a paycheck?

Never mind, I added nothing to an earlier answer posted while writing mine.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Okay, let me explain this to those who don’t understand: By saying “we can, and we will”, and therefore making a promise to his impatient and massive fan base, Dubas gave leverage to Nylander. Now, if Dubas fails to sign Nylander, he is in a position where he lied to his fan base. By making that comment, Dubas created increased external motivation for him to sign Nylander. This gave leverage to Nylander.

For a very, very simple analogy, for the posters that don’t understand: Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan are with a 5 year old child in a toy store. The child asks “Kyle, can you and Brendan buy me this super awesome toy?” Dumbass Dubas responds “We can, and we will.” Then, Kyle asks the owner of the store how much the toy costs. Before hearing that comment, the owner of the toy store was willing to sell that toy for $50. But after hearing that comment, the owner of the toy store realizes that he has added leverage, due to dumbass Dubas’ comments, and so he asks for more.

Dubas didn’t have to make that comment. It was completely unnecessary and he gave a ton of leverage to Nylander. That is a big part of why he looks particularly bad here.

GMs make definitive statements based on information that they have all the time. Then things change and sometimes they do something else. Leaders across all professions do it. Dubas is not backed into a corner. But I can see how your anti-leaf bias really, really wants him to be.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Lou right now:

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Why can't Nylander and a team have a deal in place to sign the offersheet one hour before to force them to match right away before 5:00pm or take the compensation?

They can't force the Leafs to match right away. The rule is, if an RFA signs an offer sheet the team that holds his rights has 7 days to determine whether they want to match the contract or to accept compensation. Once 5pm hits, Nylander can't play (I also saw that the offer sheet is rescinded, but idk if that's true).

If a team were going to offer sheet Nylander, the time to do it was before a week ago. It makes no sense for a team to offer sheet him now, if a team had been willing to do that, they would have done when it might have worked.

 

[Coach Parker]

They can't force the Leafs to match right away. The rule is, if an RFA signs an offer sheet the team that holds his rights has 7 days to determine whether they want to match the contract or to accept compensation. Once 5pm hits, Nylander can't play (I also saw that the offer sheet is rescinded, but idk if that's true).

If a team were going to offer sheet Nylander, the time to do it was before a week ago. It makes no sense for a team to offer sheet him now, if a team had been willing to do that, they would have done when it might have worked.

I get the 7 days but can you confirm that he is ineligible to play for the 1st team if indeed he does have a signed contract with that team before the deadline?

 

[Coach Parker]

They can't force the Leafs to match right away. The rule is, if an RFA signs an offer sheet the team that holds his rights has 7 days to determine whether they want to match the contract or to accept compensation. Once 5pm hits, Nylander can't play (I also saw that the offer sheet is rescinded, but idk if that's true).

If a team were going to offer sheet Nylander, the time to do it was before a week ago. It makes no sense for a team to offer sheet him now, if a team had been willing to do that, they would have done when it might have worked.

Because if you can confirm, what you are saying is that 100% the offersheet option was null for teams at 4:59 last Saturday?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I get the 7 days but can you confirm that he is ineligible to play for the 1st team if indeed he does have a signed contract with that team before the deadline?

I think if the Leafs did submit the paperwork indicating their acceptance of the compensation before the 5pm deadline, yes, Nylander could play since he would have signed a contract before the deadline.

Because if you can confirm, what you are saying is that 100% the offersheet option was null for teams at 4:59 last Saturday?

It was null last Saturday because the Leafs would likely just wait until the deadline had passed without submitting any paperwork, rendering the offer sheet moot.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

GMs make definitive statements based on information that they have all the time. Then things change and they do something else. Leaders across all professions do it. Dubas is not backed into a corner. But I can see how your anti-leaf bias really, really wants him to be.

Can you give me another example of a GM in any sort of sport who made a comment like Dubas did, and was completely wrong? And how did the collective world react to that person? I would imagine that there weren’t a ton of people defending them in the way that Leafs fans and the media (basically Leafs propaganda central).

Like I say, if you really think there is some sort of anti-Leafs bias, on this forum or anywhere else, just imagine somebody like John Chayka royally f***ing something up in the way that Dubas has f***ed this up? There would be NO defense of him. No rationalizing of his pathetic failures. Everybody would be all over him.

Face it: rookie GM Dubas did a terrible job in this entire situation. The only reason that people are defending him here is because he is the golden boy, and the GM of the Leafs.

 

[rt]

He was a Tampa fan? I know super dad played there a couple of years.


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Gage Creed?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Because if you can confirm, what you are saying is that 100% the offersheet option was null for teams at 4:59 last Saturday?

I believe Nylander just needs to sign a contract by Dec. 1. I would suspect that he can sign an offer sheet up until 4:59pm, and Leafs would have 7 days thereafter to match, but I can't really confirm that for you, sorry.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Man, I can't believe Dubas let it get to this point. I think he's a terrible GM.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Can you give me another example of a GM in any sort of sport who made a comment like Dubas did, and was completely wrong? And how did the collective world react to that person? I would imagine that there weren’t a ton of people defending them in the way that Leafs fans and the media (basically Leafs propaganda central).

Like I say, if you really think there is some sort of anti-Leafs bias, on this forum or anywhere else, just imagine somebody like John Chayka royally ****ing something up in the way that Dubas has ****ed this up? There would be NO defense of him. No rationalizing of his pathetic failures. Everybody would be all over him.

Face it: rookie GM Dubas did a terrible job in this entire situation. The only reason that people are defending him here is because he is the golden boy, and the GM of the Leafs.

There's absolutely no way I'm going to let you to bait me into putting an ounce of actual work in fiddling around with your nonsensical spin.

Also, you're still speaking in past tense. That is literally a bias convincing you that the deadline already passed.

I wouldn't be commenting at all if this was Chayka because why the f*** would I care? That Chayka thread would be dead because who the hell has an Anti-Coyotes bias? No one.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Lou right now:

Say what you want about Lou. Perhaps he is a dinosaur; he has made pretty much only awful moves since taking over the Islanders. But I don’t think that he would have made the rookie mistakes that Dubas has here.

 

[Coach Parker]

I think if the Leafs did submit the paperwork indicating their acceptance of the compensation before the 5pm deadline, yes, Nylander could play since he would have signed a contract before the deadline.



It was null last Saturday because the Leafs would likely just wait until the deadline had passed without submitting any paperwork, rendering the offer sheet moot.

Why does the offersheet become moot? Its a signed contract by a RFA with a NHL club before the deadline? I'm sorry to ask but I cannot find the clarification anywhere that you are pointing out and this is the first time in the NHL that this has presented itself.

 

[hector morrison]

He was a Tampa fan? I know super dad played there a couple of years.


View attachment 160213

See ,his head was too big even at that age...shoulda used a smaller bowl!

 

[Notsince67]

He was a Tampa fan? I know super dad played there a couple of years.


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Does Tampa not have good haircutters or is that the style there?

 

[Coach Parker]

I believe Nylander just needs to sign a contract by Dec. 1. I would suspect that he can sign an offer sheet up until 4:59pm, and Leafs would have 7 days thereafter to match, but I can't really confirm that for you, sorry.

Thanks. I couldn't find it either and am asking the Bruins board resident capologists but it seems like a sneaky little loophole because the Leafs contract would be after the deadline.

Common sense would indicate that the Leafs would have the 7 days to match but the fact remains that if/when they did it would be a contract signed after the December 1st deadline.

What a crazy loophole that would be to get a player to get to pick his team; 'I've signed with this team and they can have me play this year. Accept their trade, accept their compensation or match but you'll be paying me for this year and I won't be playing.'