Speculation: Nylander XI - All rumors, proposals, discussion, etc. HERE

[Canadian Canuck]

So LA has offered Muzzin+Pearson for Nylander+ But Tonroto still wants Pesce I’ve heard. Interesting

 

[Leaf Fans]

Leafs should have kept this in mind when they inked a Tavares to 11m when they had 3 young stars coming up for contracts

No, when you have a chance to sign a superstar, you do it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Maybe, just maybe the ones who see players as chattel and who believe that Dubas has Nylander by the balls ?

I don't think so. Any organisation in a similar situation has the upper hand. It doesn't mean that they want a pound of flesh. Especially in this situation as the rumoured maximum offer from the Leafs is the Pasternak contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So LA has offered Muzzin+Pearson for Nylander+ But Tonroto still wants Pesce I’ve heard. Interesting

I feel like that would be very stupid for LA to do, tbh. Nylander isn't worth both Pearson and Muzzin unless Toronto is adding a moderately significant piece with Nylander.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I find it hilarious how the Leafs fans blame it only on Nylander and his agent. Anyhow, here is all the info we have:

• Nylaner's agent is a tough negotiator, his players always sign the day before the season starts (the last part was explained to me by Leafs fans)...
• Nylander Sr. is a problem negotiator (anther TML fans excuse).... How often did he miss a month of season because of a contract dispute?

Let us look on the Leafs side:

• Dubas went on the market and overspend. By this I don't mean paying too much on Tavares, I mean he saw a new toy and spend on it more than his budget allowed... Because of this, his purse must be tight.
• Shanahan publicly shamed Nylander and explained that players need to take a discount to play in Toronto.. To me this speaks volume.
• The entire TML press and some former players are trying to also emphasize the discount card.

The reality is that we have no idea what goes on in the negotiations. The TML fan glasses make the Nylander camp the only culprit, despite the fact that the Shanahan interview hints strongly towards the TML wanting a discount. And yes, I heard about working within a budget, all teams have to do that. But, if I am reading the situation correctly, that doesn't excuse trying to get a discount or sit the player, especially after spending without restrain on a new toy...

Answer me a simple question: if you really think that Nylander is the only one unreasonable here, and that the TML offer him fair value, why did Shanahan went public asking players to take a discount?
Note the choice of words " discount" and "fair value" are two completely different things...

No, one blames the situation on the Nylander camp entirely, at least I don't think anyone does, I have simply pointed out accurately how much less an organisation will suffer than an individual would long term. I want Nylander to sign.

 

[nturn06]

No, the only one here who does that (constantly) is you.


Yes, it was. Stop speaking for other people. It was suggested that the Tavares contract would cause an inability to sign their core players (Nylander). That is not true.

Nylander has a market value.
Toronto is willing and able to pay Nylander (and their other core players) what they are worth.
None of this has changed with the signing of Tavares.
Thus, Tavares signing had no impact on the ability to keep the core together.

Move along.

No it wasn't, you completely missed the point...

 

[nturn06]

No, one blames the situation on the Nylander camp entirely, at least I don't think anyone does, I have simply pointed out accurately how much less an organisation will suffer than an individual would long term. I want Nylander to sign.

There are actually a lot of fans who blame this entire situation on Nylander's greed or his father....

It usually doesn't get to this point unless both sides are to blame....

Also, I think that many fans are overestimating how much Nylander is loosing by sitting out one year... His first year in a long term contract is worth less than his last year, there is a reason why people who seek 6 mils/year long term sign bridge contracts for 3-4 mils...If Nylander sits out one year, next season he will probably negotiate a contract with more UFA years and likely higher average contract than this year, and he will recoup some of his loses (probably not everything, but not even close to what people estimate). And I think that it would be a huge bonus for Nylander to negotiate his contract at the same time as AM/Marner...

 

[Brock Radunske]

So LA has offered Muzzin+Pearson for Nylander+ But Tonroto still wants Pesce I’ve heard. Interesting

Yeh that's not a very good deal for TO

 

[deaderhead28]

For what its worth.



NOVEMBER 3, 2018 | 10:37AM ET
THEFOURTHPERIOD.COM

KINGS, HURRICANES HOT FOR NYLANDER

Kings, Hurricanes hot for Nylander

 

[bukwas]

I feel like that would be very stupid for LA to do, tbh. Nylander isn't worth both Pearson and Muzzin unless Toronto is adding a moderately significant piece with Nylander.

A year and a half of Muzzin plus Pearson who hasn't become what people had hoped aside from the one year that 70's line looked good wouldn't be requiring an add. I've watch a lot of Kings games over the years and i'd say that offer is 2 years removed from a serious significant add to Nylander discussion.

 

[Brock Radunske]

A year and a half of Muzzin plus Pearson who hasn't become what people had hoped aside from the one year that 70's line looked good wouldn't be requiring an add. I've watch a lot of Kings games over the years and i'd say that offer is 2 years removed from a serious significant add to Nylander discussion.

Not to mention, why the f*** would TO trade Nylander+ for a 30 year old LHD when they have Rielly/Gardiner/Dermott/Hainsey on the roster and Sandin/Rosen/Borgman in the minors.
And where are they going to plug Pearson? 3rd line, maybe.
Woof!

 

[Empoleon8771]

A year and a half of Muzzin plus Pearson who hasn't become what people had hoped aside from the one year that 70's line looked good wouldn't be requiring an add. I've watch a lot of Kings games over the years and i'd say that offer is 2 years removed from a serious significant add to Nylander discussion.

And you're ignoring that Nylander isn't even under contract right now, which hurts his value. Muzzin only has a year and a half left? Nylander isn't even under contract right now, and it sounds like he's demanding something close to what those two make combined. Muzzin also plays a much more valuable position than Nylander, and Pearson isn't this meh throw-in either.

That just doesn't seem like a good deal for LA. It's a #2D and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger, I don't think the Kings get better by making that trade.

 

[SprDaVE]

And you're ignoring that Nylander isn't even under contract right now, which hurts his value. Muzzin only has a year and a half left? Nylander isn't even under contract right now, and it sounds like he's demanding something close to what those two make combined. Muzzin also plays a much more valuable position than Nylander, and Pearson isn't this meh throw-in either.

That just doesn't seem like a good deal for LA. It's a #2D and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger, I don't think the Kings get better by making that trade.

... are... are you serious? Are you familiar with potential and age regression? Perhaps long-term sustainability? Yiiiikes.

Muzzin and Toffoli are good players but their contracts will be well over the 12M mark combined in about 2/3 years, and very likely on the decline or at the very best on a plateau, whereas Nylander will be 25 years old just entering his prime, very likely putting up PPG numbers.

I get that people don't like the Leafs but this is where the Leafs have a darn good asset and offering short-term and declining assets makes no sense.

The Leafs would probably prefer to pay Nylander 8.5M than to trade for players with very little term on their contracts and little to no growth left.

 

[bukwas]

And you're ignoring that Nylander isn't even under contract right now, which hurts his value. Muzzin only has a year and a half left? Nylander isn't even under contract right now, and it sounds like he's demanding something close to what those two make combined. Muzzin also plays a much more valuable position than Nylander, and Pearson isn't this meh throw-in either.

That just doesn't seem like a good deal for LA. It's a #2D and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger, I don't think the Kings get better by making that trade.

Well, i'm fine with leaving it as a disagreement.
Game time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

... are... are you serious? Are you familiar with potential and age regression?

Yes, I'm also aware that Pearson is 26 and defensemen like Muzzin usually last into their mid to late 30s as effective top-4 defensemen. I don't think any of these guys are going to get dramatically better or worse in the near future, so I don't know why you're bringing up potential. The biggest potential increase for Nylander is that he becomes a legit 1C instead of a 1RW.

Muzzin and Toffoli are good players but their contracts will be well over the 12M mark combined in about 2 years.

Uh okay? That doesn't address anything I said. How do the Kings improve by swapping a #2 defensemen and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger? They take a huge hit on defense only to get a better top-6 forward. They're going from a 40 point Pearson to a 60 point Nylander and giving up a top pair defenseman to get that swap. How do the Kings improve there?

Pearson is a Saad-lite type of player in my eyes, swapping Saad and a top pair D like Muzzin for Nylander just seems bad for whatever team is giving up Saad and Muzzin.

 

[Liferleafer]

For what its worth.



NOVEMBER 3, 2018 | 10:37AM ET
THEFOURTHPERIOD.COM

KINGS, HURRICANES HOT FOR NYLANDER

Kings, Hurricanes hot for Nylander

Meh...doubt either would offer what Nylander is worth.

 

[SprDaVE]

Yes, I'm also aware that Pearson is 26 and defensemen like Muzzin usually last into their mid to late 30s as effective top-4 defensemen. I don't think any of these guys are going to get dramatically better or worse in the near future, so I don't know why you're bringing up potential. The biggest potential increase for Nylander is that he becomes a legit 1C instead of a 1RW.



Uh okay? That doesn't address anything I said. How do the Kings improve by swapping a #2 defensemen and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger? They take a huge hit on defense only to get a better top-6 forward.

It's about long-term sustainability and cost controlled assets. Muzzin will likely get a pretty good pay increase on his next contract, and Pearson is pretty average and serves no purpose. It makes no sense for the Leafs to trade a borderline elite producing 22 year old player for aging players that will need big extensions very soon and with no progression in their games. They aren't bad players but not at all what the Leafs want in return.

So no, this makes no sense for the Leafs and I really don't care if the Kings wouldn't do it because it's by far the least likely option the Leafs will want for very obvious reasons. Look at the Drouin and Johansen returns, that's what the kind of ballpark returns the Leafs will be asking for if someone wants to have a chance to acquire Nylander.

EDIT: I confused Toffoli with Pearson. Pearson is a whole lot worst than Toffoli.

 

[Liferleafer]

I feel like that would be very stupid for LA to do, tbh. Nylander isn't worth both Pearson and Muzzin unless Toronto is adding a moderately significant piece with Nylander.

I hope you are right...because 30 year old LHD Muzzin would not be appealing for Nylander.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's about long-term sustainability and cost controlled assets. Muzzin will likely get a pretty good pay increase on his next contract, and Toffoli will also get a big pay bump. It makes no sense for the Leafs to trade a borderline elite producing 22 year old player for aging players that will need big extensions very soon and with no progression in their games. They aren't bad players but not at all what the Leafs want in return.

So no, this makes no sense for the Leafs and I really don't care if the Kings wouldn't do it because it's by far the least likely option the Leafs will want for very obvious reasons. Look at the Drouin and Johansen returns, that's what the kind of ballpark returns the Leafs will be asking for if someone wants to have a chance to acquire Nylander.

I didn't comment on whether it made sense for the Leafs, I said the Kings became worse by making that trade. The original poster said that the Kings were the team that made that original offer, so I was commenting on what I thought of it from the Kings perspective. The upgrade from Pearson to Nylander isn't worth just losing Muzzin and not getting back any sort of fallback option in the trade, the Kings just end up a worse team with the swap.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

No, one blames the situation on the Nylander camp entirely, at least I don't think anyone does, I have simply pointed out accurately how much less an organisation will suffer than an individual would long term. I want Nylander to sign.

I certainly do, it's utterly ridiculous that they think they should get 8 or 8.5 million per. He shouldn't get a penny more than Pasta got.

 

[SprDaVE]

Yes, I'm also aware that Pearson is 26 and defensemen like Muzzin usually last into their mid to late 30s as effective top-4 defensemen. I don't think any of these guys are going to get dramatically better or worse in the near future, so I don't know why you're bringing up potential. The biggest potential increase for Nylander is that he becomes a legit 1C instead of a 1RW.



Uh okay? That doesn't address anything I said. How do the Kings improve by swapping a #2 defensemen and a 2nd line winger for a 1st line winger? They take a huge hit on defense only to get a better top-6 forward. They're going from a 40 point Pearson to a 60 point Nylander and giving up a top pair defenseman to get that swap. How do the Kings improve there?

Pearson is a Saad-lite type of player in my eyes, swapping Saad and a top pair D like Muzzin for Nylander just seems bad for whatever team is giving up Saad and Muzzin.

Again the value and assets are not the problem. They are good players in their right. The contracts and the needs for the Leafs to trade Nylander isn't going to be for average wingers and a defenseman that is a pending UFA next season and not really elite. The Kings would do this to get an elite LONG-TERM player for a very average winger that has been terrible for awhile and for a pending UFA likely looking for a big pay increase entering where a lot of defenders start to regress. Also, Muzzin is a LHD, something that again is not what the Leafs need at all.

You can argue that the value is there but it's a terrible return for the Leafs for more than just the value back and serves very little purpose long-term. The Leafs will want a locked up player with a lot more mileage in his game. It's really that simple.

Pearson would be on our third line, maybe even fourth line. And he has 1 assist in 12 games this season... oof.

It's really not good for the Leafs.

 

[SprDaVE]

I didn't comment on whether it made sense for the Leafs, I said the Kings became worse by making that trade. The original poster said that the Kings were the team that made that original offer, so I was commenting on what I thought of it from the Kings perspective. The upgrade from Pearson to Nylander isn't worth just losing Muzzin and not getting back any sort of fallback option in the trade, the Kings just end up a worse team with the swap.

They really aren't worst off. They are terrible now with those players and they aren't going to get better with those players. Nylander will be elite, which is what neither Muzzin and Pearson are. Muzzin is a LHD and Pearson wouldn't give us anything we don't already have.

You want to acquire Nylander, it'll take a young asset with the same kind of top end potential and value long-term.

 

[gabeliscious]

Pesce is at least the right age, hand, and contract situation.

Muzzin and pearson are meh. Id sooner let nylander sit out the year then trade him for the sake of trading him

 

[Empoleon8771]

Again the value and assets are not the problem. They are good players in their right. The contracts and the needs for the Leafs to trade Nylander isn't going to be for average wingers and a defenseman that is a pending UFA next season and not really elite. The Kings would do this to get an elite LONG-TERM player for a very average winger that has been terrible for awhile and for a pending UFA likely looking for a big pay increase entering where a lot of defenders start to regress. Also, Muzzin is a LHD, something that again is not what the Leafs need at all.

You can argue that the value is there but it's a terrible return for the Leafs for more than just the value back and serves very little purpose long-term. The Leafs will want a locked up player with a lot more mileage in his game. It's really that simple.

Pearson would be on our third line, maybe even fourth line. And he has 1 assist in 12 games this season... oof.

It's really not good for the Leafs.

You keep ignoring that I'm talking about it from the Kings POV. I don't care what the Leafs think of it because the original poster said that the Kings offered it. I said I thought the Kings were stupid for offering that because they end up a worse team by making that swap. I honestly don't care if the Leafs like it or not because that's not what I was talking about.

And the bolded is hilarious, come on now. That's just a blatant spin job there, you can just as easily say it's a 2nd line 2-way winger and a top pair defenseman for a guy who isn't even under contract right now. You can spin any trade in ways like that.

They really aren't worst off. They are terrible now with those players and they aren't going to get better with those players. Nylander will be elite, which is what neither Muzzin and Pearson are. Muzzin is a LHD and Pearson wouldn't give us anything we don't already have.

You want to acquire Nylander, it'll take a young asset with the same kind of top end potential and value long-term.

Yeah, they really are. Saying "they're terrible now" isn't a good justification for them to upgrade from a 40 point to a 60 point player by giving up a top pair defenseman. You keep bringing up the Leafs POV when the Leafs POV is irrelevant here. I'm talking about how it impacts the Kings.

 

[SprDaVE]

You keep ignoring that I'm talking about it from the Kings POV. I don't care what the Leafs think of it because the original poster said that the Kings offered it. I said I thought the Kings were stupid for offering that because they end up a worse team by making that swap. I honestly don't care if the Leafs like it or not because that's not what I was talking about.

And the bolded is hilarious, come on now. That's just a blatant spin job there, you can just as easily say it's a 2nd line 2-way winger and a top pair defenseman for a guy who isn't even under contract right now. You can spin any trade in ways like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. This is clearly in favour of the Kings since they are not losing any long-term assets and get rid of a pretty mediocre player in the same breath.

"I don't care if the Leafs like it or not" Well you should because that's who you have to entice in order to get something done, not the other way around.

I'm just telling you from the POV of the Leafs, it would be terrible in a lot of ways and makes zero sense based on needs.