Confirmed with Link: Nylander Re-signs (6 yrs x $6.9 AAV) Pt III

[Trapper]

I kind of like Dubas, and his openness about contracts and his commitment to keeping his word. This
is a new age GM who is trying to build a reputation that other players around the NHL will value. It's his team and he will build it his way and if he ruffles other GM's feathers, so be it.
I don't see it as building another country club-these young players want to win it all, they want to be the best for years to come. Tavares liked Dubas and his vision of the future Leafs, hopefully, as time wears on we can attract other star players- that is if the cap allows us to.

I love all these new shiny toys

The bottom line is you still have to win with these toys.
82 games and little to no playoff success doesn't cut it.
And if that happens, you have to assess the team and make hard decisions.
Which is why you guarantee nothing.
What if a player outscores Kapanen in the regular season but he routinely outscores them (and play) in the playoffs. Who do you move if the cap dictates that. I know it's a problem for another day right now and nothing is written, but you must be aware. That's what a GM does.
It's a 5 year plan that can change everyday.

 

[RLF]

I dunno - The implication of that post wasn't that you were wrong about something, but that, were you to be wrong about something, you may have a hard time admitting it.

It's a generalization based on the fact that some people believe statements like the one Dubas made regarding his RFAs will potentially come back to haunt Dubas in the future. In my mind, people (such as Dubas) can have ambitious plans, fail to achieve those plans for various circumstances (many of which are outside of that person's control), and be allowed to simply admit that things didn't go according to plan without (necessarily) being held to the fire.

If someone is so unforgiving of someone else's failed ambitions, I just imagine they probably have a hard time admitting that they're wrong (when they are).

Not sure how you jump to that conclusion, but ok.

In this case it was Willy who made the promise public, not Dubas. When have we ever heard a player when signing a tradeable contract that he has been guaranteed he will not be moved? I can't remember one example at time of signing. Would suggest Willy wanted the promise known for some reason. No? Player trying to make sure Dubas keeps his word maybe. Does that not put some extra power in the players hands?
If Willy struggles and Babcock puts him down the lineup...don't you think this board will be saying-"well, can't trade him, Dubas gave him his word."

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

RIP Pesce and a 2nd round pick

 

[GoonieFace]

So the takeaway from all this is that Nylander will be traded in the offseason.

 

[Drytoast]

So the takeaway from all this is that Nylander will be traded in the offseason.

I think that depends on how the Marner Matthews negotiations go. If Dubas ISN'T an idiot he needs to have both signed before july 1st. If that means losing Willie...then that's the cost.

 

[IBeL34f]

Not sure how you jump to that conclusion, but ok.

In this case it was Willy who made the promise public, not Dubas. When have we ever heard a player when signing a tradeable contract that he has been guaranteed he will not be moved? I can't remember one example at time of signing. Would suggest Willy wanted the promise known for some reason. No? Player trying to make sure Dubas keeps his word maybe. Does that not put some extra power in the players hands?
If Willy struggles and Babcock puts him down the lineup...don't you think this board will be saying-"well, can't trade him, Dubas gave him his word."

I imagine some folks here will, but I won't be taking those people very seriously.

Dubas had also publicly stated that, as long as he's here, he sees Willy as part of the core, with no intention of shipping him out. I expect him to keep his word, and I expect him to be able to do so without controversy, so long as he and the Leafs continue on their current trajectory. If things change, especially things outside of Dubas' control, then things change. For now, we have one of our 3 RFAs locked up long-term, and a pretty good cap situation after 2019/20. I'm not scared, and I don't think Nylander or Dubas are, either. If the cap drops 50%, and the Leafs suddenly have to choose 2 of Matthews, Marner and Nylander, then I expect them to make a sacrifice that couldn't have possibly been expected at the time that Dubas made his statement.

Unfortunately for Willy, unless there's an NTC/NMC built into his contract, no word given to him by his boss gives him actual power or leverage. Does Dubas lose leverage with other parties if he ends up trading Nylander at some point? I think we'd have to see why he traded him before we could determine that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think that depends on how the Marner Matthews negotiations go. If Dubas ISN'T an idiot he needs to have both signed before july 1st. If that means losing Willie...then that's the cost.

For marner i'm more than happy to
1) match a offersheet less than 4 1sts.
2) take 4 1sts
3) sign him to a 8*8 deal

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ask DeRozan about promises

 

[socko]

Nope, guess it's live action training after all. Smiles is only a few bad moves from getting into the Nonis territory.

I'm really disappointed in what Dubas says publicly. You won't trade any of your core? Really..... That is part of your job, to consider all possible options to improve the team. You traded Leivo because you made him a promise? Wrong answer. You should only trade Leivo because it benefits the Toronto Maple Leafs to do so. Any other answer is wrong.

We shouldn't be in the position of handing out free no-trade clauses. NTCs have value. A lot of value. They're not free.

 

[Walshy7]

Ask DeRozan about promises

someone listens to overdrive. Odog said this word for word

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Is anyone else really happy that a lot of these "Media Experts" got exposed like Kyper and Freidman during this Nylander saga? I think there has been a passing of the guard and I am really impressed with Marc Savard and Chris Johnston for accurate reporting without rumor mongering.

 

[DanM]

I think that depends on how the Marner Matthews negotiations go. If Dubas ISN'T an idiot he needs to have both signed before july 1st. If that means losing Willie...then that's the cost.

Or Dubas may sign both Marner and Matty for reasonable costs, and nobody needs to be moved.

I always laugh when posters dismiss the idea that both may sign reasonable contracts. In fact, the chances of this happening, is as high as them cashing in for every cent. As none of us actually know what will happen either way.

 

[thewave]

I'm really disappointed in what Dubas says publicly. You won't trade any of your core? Really..... That is part of your job, to consider all possible options to improve the team. You traded Leivo because you made him a promise? Wrong answer. You should only trade Leivo because it benefits the Toronto Maple Leafs to do so. Any other answer is wrong.

We shouldn't be in the position of handing out free no-trade clauses. NTCs have value. A lot of value. They're not free.

Seem to be in the minority here that way. That's exactly why I am scratching my head.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think Nylander believes he will never ever be traded now, but I do believe he feels wanted and secure as part of this team's core. Something that wasn't the case a few months ago, when Dubas was using more careful words to express the same idea.

As for Michael, I'm sure he's made Willy very aware that it's a business and that anyone can get traded. But people are overstating how much of a factor it is for players like this. How often does a young core player get traded before they hit UFA? A few percent? Hardly much of a door being closed here, is it? Especially not when that amount includes some of the worst moves in recent times like Subban and Hall.

If everyone including Willie understands that no matter what Dubas said he can still be traded, what was the point of this charade? I'm quite confident that there were many, many other ways to make Willie feel wanted if that's what this is all about. And frankly, I've seen enough charades around this team over the last 50 years to last me several lifetimes.

 

[Drytoast]

Or Dubas may sign both Marner and Matty for reasonable costs, and nobody needs to be moved.

I always laugh when posters dismiss the idea that both may sign reasonable contracts. In fact, the chances of this happening, is as high as them cashing in for every cent. As none of us actually know what will happen either way.

Highly unlikely as if that were the case, they would be signed as of now. Both were already offered "reasonable" and fair contracts (unless again, Dubas is an idiot) and both would have decided "ya that's fair"

So no...highly unlikely.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm really disappointed in what Dubas says publicly. You won't trade any of your core? Really..... That is part of your job, to consider all possible options to improve the team. You traded Leivo because you made him a promise? Wrong answer. You should only trade Leivo because it benefits the Toronto Maple Leafs to do so. Any other answer is wrong.

We shouldn't be in the position of handing out free no-trade clauses. NTCs have value. A lot of value. They're not free.

You have to be really naive to think that this is literally what he means. He wants to keep a good player that is signed to a darn good cap hit long-term. He's in the business of keeping these players.

GMs have said countless of times that X or Y player are unavailable, some a lot worst than Nylander. This doesn't mean there won't be a situation where Dubas could trade Nylander in the future. Nylander knows this and Dubas certainly knows this. It builds confidence and trust though in the short-term that both sides want each other and have no intention of changing that.

This is the same thing as a player saying "I don't want to leave" and then a few days later that player signs with another team. Does that sound familiar?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Players are granted NTC's, only to be traded later on
Promises shmomises

 

[Gary Nylund]

The bottom line is you still have to win with these toys.
82 games and little to no playoff success doesn't cut it.
And if that happens, you have to assess the team and make hard decisions.
Which is why you guarantee nothing.
What if a player outscores Kapanen in the regular season but he routinely outscores them (and play) in the playoffs. Who do you move if the cap dictates that. I know it's a problem for another day right now and nothing is written, but you must be aware. That's what a GM does.
It's a 5 year plan that can change everyday.

Yeah I can't even remember who it was who said that, was it Lou or Shanahan? It's so true though, things can change so quickly so like you said, you guarantee nothing (unless you absolutely have to).

I'm really disappointed in what Dubas says publicly. You won't trade any of your core? Really..... That is part of your job, to consider all possible options to improve the team. You traded Leivo because you made him a promise? Wrong answer. You should only trade Leivo because it benefits the Toronto Maple Leafs to do so. Any other answer is wrong.

We shouldn't be in the position of handing out free no-trade clauses. NTCs have value. A lot of value. They're not free.

 

[DanM]

Highly unlikely as if that were the case, they would be signed as of now. Both were already offered "reasonable" and fair contracts (unless again, Dubas is an idiot) and both would have decided "ya that's fair"

So no...highly unlikely.

I don't remember them being offered a contract already?

Is there a source?

 

[Nithoniniel]

If everyone including Willie understands that no matter what Dubas said he can still be traded, what was the point of this charade?

The difference between "I'm done here anyway" and "anyone can be traded, but I do believe they want and plan around me being here for the foreseeable future."

 

[Drytoast]

I don't remember them being offered a contract already?

Is there a source?

If Dubas hasn't already tabled an initial offer to the agents as a starting point before the season, during the season or even now then he's an idiot.

Fact is much more likely that he's probably tabled something since mid of last season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The difference between "I'm done here anyway" and "anyone can be traded, but I do believe they want and plan around me being here for the foreseeable future."

How about "We haven't had the kind of young talent we have now during my lifetime, why would we want to trade it away? As long as I'm in charge here, we will be in the business of nurturing and developing young talent, not trading it away to help other teams. I fully expect that Nylander will be a Maple Leaf for the duration of his contract and hopefully for many years beyond. And frankly even if Willie asked to be traded, I would do everything that I could possibly think of to try to talk him out of it before accommodating his request".

You're good with words, I'm sure you could come with something even more convincing but I think that's not bad for a start. If Dubas says that, does Willie think "I'm done here anyway"?

That took me about 2 minutes. Seriously, this sentiment could have been conveyed hundreds of different ways without saying he will "never be traded as long as I'm the GM".

 

[Tak7]

Is anyone else really happy that a lot of these "Media Experts" got exposed like Kyper and Freidman during this Nylander saga? I think there has been a passing of the guard and I am really impressed with Marc Savard and Chris Johnston for accurate reporting without rumor mongering.

Dreger broke the deal.

Friedman and CJ's speculation on the Saturday before the deadline, turned out to be spot on - 6 year deal, under $7 million.

Not really sure how they've been "exposed".

 

[egd27]

If Dubas hasn't already tabled an initial offer to the agents as a starting point before the season, during the season or even now then he's an idiot.

Fact is much more likely that he's probably tabled something since mid of last season.

If he made the initial offer he's a bigger idiot.

 

[Tak7]

I don't remember them being offered a contract already?

Is there a source?

No, because this stuff never gets released publicly.

Dubas did say, however, in his post-Nylander conference yesterday, that he's had talks with both camps already.