Nylander/Jokiharju Trade Talk 2

[Blackhawkswincup]

Joker thriving at box office , Joker thriving in Buffalo

What a wonderful trade Stanley!

 

[Muffinalt]

Yeah... my entire life.

As I said, I'm not absolving him. He needed to do more on that play, but he was far from the major issue on that play. Anyone trying to put blame on him for that goal, though, definitely hasn't ever played the game.

This is a take I can get behind, it was multiple guys making mistakes and errors.

I do wonder if our systems are contributing to some of these kind of breakdowns coz our guys can get jumbled up often. Individual misreads more likely (especially with Seabs) but I wonder if this type of dzone coverage any more complex to how other teams do it.

 

[Panzerspitze]

This is a take I can get behind, it was multiple guys making mistakes and errors.

I do wonder if our systems are contributing to some of these kind of breakdowns coz our guys can get jumbled up often. Individual misreads more likely (especially with Seabs) but I wonder if this type of dzone coverage any more complex to how other teams do it.

No, same old **** during Quenneville last years here too. The signature moment was Anisimov and Jurco running into each other chasing in the D-zone.

 

[BobbyJet]

Wow what? You haven't refuted what I've said with anything except "Needs to try harder there." Gimme a break. His mistakes didn't cause that goal. Period. Two mistakes by other players, plus his own standing around caused it.

The replay says all that needs to be said.

Tell me, for a guy who has played hockey all of his life, would you have ignored a wide open Goodrow as he brushed past you on the way to the slot or would you have stood there watching the battle for the puck? I think we all know the answer.

For the record, I want Nylander to succeed. Hawks could use his offense but he can't possibly survive making plays like that.

 

[AmericanDream]

Joker thriving at box office , Joker thriving in Buffalo

What a wonderful trade Stanley!

thriving??? he is getting 16-17 minutes a night on the third pair...he is being sheltered but had a good game the past 2...he has ZERO points and is a +1...he is getting a chance to play while their blue line has injuries..I hope he sticks but your hyperbole yet again knows no bounds...

 

[bwana63]

my point was Nylander can't play a bottom 6 role to any effectiveness...so if the top 6 isn't working he likely will be the first guy rotated out due to him not being as diverse as some other players/capable of playing bottom 6...he is a boom or bust type player, and hopefully he booms here. I don't even think he is being singled out honestly, he has his issues no doubt but Hawks lost 2 games and we need to see what works early on..can't just ice the same lineup if things aren't working right away.

This. QFT. Nice post.

 

[RayP]

This is a take I can get behind, it was multiple guys making mistakes and errors.

I do wonder if our systems are contributing to some of these kind of breakdowns coz our guys can get jumbled up often. Individual misreads more likely (especially with Seabs) but I wonder if this type of dzone coverage any more complex to how other teams do it.

I’m nervous about our systems. I’m trying to have patience but if we don’t see improvement in the next game or three we might be screwed.

 

[Muffinalt]

I’m nervous about our systems. I’m trying to have patience but if we don’t see improvement in the next game or three we might be screwed.

I'm not well versed enough to know if there are better wrinkles to be head or what we should do different. But I'm also pretty sure we don't have the ideal defensemen and that many of our forwards aren't too impactful defesively, two things that will make any system look bad. The personnel needs to do better.

 

[Geoist]

If you’re just trolling, that’s fine, just don’t want people to be misinformed about what happened last night.

Why would he be trolling? There were forwards who played worse.

(Btw, not totally against the scratch).

 

[Geoist]

Joker thriving at box office , Joker thriving in Buffalo

What a wonderful trade Stanley!

And just 2-3 weeks ago Buffalo fans were groaning about Joki because he had a couple subpar games. Give it time before assessing the trades.

 

[bwana63]

Give it time before assessing the trades.

The knee jerk contingent is always assessing in real time. And, really, that's ok. It's just the jumping to conclusions at this very early stage that drives us stable geniuses nuts.

 

[ChiHawks10]

The replay says all that needs to be said.

Tell me, for a guy who has played hockey all of his life, would you have ignored a wide open Goodrow as he brushed past you on the way to the slot or would you have stood there watching the battle for the puck? I think we all know the answer.

For the record, I want Nylander to succeed. Hawks could use his offense but he can't possibly survive making plays like that.

No, I wouldn't have. Which is why I said I'm not absolving him of blame entirely. My point was, other guys were far more responsible for that goal than he was, though he still had a part in it happening.

 

[JaegerDice]

Lol. I just can't anymore.

4k does what no D should ever do, and chases behind the net while his D partner is in the corner. Then the supposed defensive stalwart, Kampf, is all disconnected controlled in the slot just standing around instead of covering for 4k, when it's his man who scores. But the real problem on that play is Nylander, who was actually the only one on his line in the proper position. This is scapegoating to fit a narrative. Ridiculous.

To be clear, I'm not completely absolving Nylander on the play, but that goal is 85% on the other two guys. As I've been saying since it happened.

Is that still true in a man-on-man system? You get all sorts of non-traditional situations, like Dmen chasing their guy out to the point instead of staying toward the net and switching off. It sure seems like 68 is staying with his man the whole time. In a traditional zone system you wouldn't want to chase the guy behind the net, I'm honestly not sure that rule still holds in a man-on-man...

 

[BobbyJet]

No, I wouldn't have. Which is why I said I'm not absolving him of blame entirely. My point was, other guys were far more responsible for that goal than he was, though he still had a part in it happening.

Who's man scored the game winning goal? Nylander's.

Anyway, K4 is also out of game 3.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Is that still true in a man-on-man system? You get all sorts of non-traditional situations, like Dmen chasing their guy out to the point instead of staying toward the net and switching off. It sure seems like 68 is staying with his man the whole time. In a traditional zone system you wouldn't want to chase the guy behind the net, I'm honestly not sure that rule still holds in a man-on-man...

I was pretty confused the other night about this too. ChiHawks10 gave a decent explanation in the GDT about how it’s supposed to work.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

How has Nylander looked for you?

 

[CallMeShaft]

How has Nylander looked for you?

Offensively? Good.
Defensively? Non-existent.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Offensively? Good.
Defensively? Non-existent.

This is accurate.

 

[CallMeShaft]

This is accurate.

Of course it is, I wrote it.

 

[Pez68]

Of course it is, I wrote it.

Lol

 

[BK]

He has been good offensively and hit/miss defensively. Made a few mistakes.

 

[ZEBROA]

Will he play next game?

 

[BK]

Will he play next game?

Not sure yet. He should.

 

[LordKOTL]

How has Nylander looked for you?

Offensively? Good.
Defensively? Non-existent.

...
You can say the same about every skater we've iced this year...and last...and the year before...and the year before...

IMHO it's too early to judge Nylander--especially with respect to the Joker.

 

[Dubi Doo]

thriving??? he is getting 16-17 minutes a night on the third pair...he is being sheltered but had a good game the past 2...he has ZERO points and is a +1...he is getting a chance to play while their blue line has injuries..I hope he sticks but your hyperbole yet again knows no bounds...

Joki was told by Krueger he has made the team. Kid's playing great. Those outlet passes are a thing of beauty, and he has the IQ to play lockdown D.

Unfortunately Nylander's reputation in Rochester was one who didnt engage enough physically or defensively. He would coast way too often. He'd also turn the puck over too much.

You're going to need a lot of patience with the kid. He may need some tough love. He can still make it. Lord knows he has the skill. He just needs a coach that will light a fire under his ass.