Nylander/Jokiharju Trade Talk 2

[plasmonresonance]

According to Hawks HF poll, Dylan Sikura was #3 prospect in 2018 and #16 prospect in 2019. Point being, a heck of a lot can change in a year.

fwiw - Also in 2018, 5 of the top 6 prospects were defensemen. This year more balanced, 3 of 6 were defensemen.

 

[BK]

as he was bashing someone elses opinion...

making up percentages on who will be better between two prospects and putting it at 90% is bizarre when you are speaking so matter of fact about someone elses opinion

Prospect Info: - Top 20 Blackhawk prospects - #2

not too long ago

If those are his percentages then it is not really that bizarre when you look at his past opinions on the prospects and then look how they evolved as prospects. It is not like he blindly put those numbers where he did which you seem to be implying.

Linking the past is fine but lets add context. Mitchell has really made some big strides in the past year and it would be either foolish or lazy to ignore that. Joker made strides as well (it would also be lazy or foolish to ignore these) but seemed to plateau then regress some (to be fair it was in the NHL). I personally like where Mitchell's game is going more than Joker. Mitchell is going to be a better player in my opinion as I think he has more ability to control the game with his skating and skill (Joker is skilled as well to be clear but I like Mitchell's skill set more). Just an opinion.

I can say for a fact that trading that Joker did not impact my view as him as a prospect at all.

 

[ChiHawk21]

According to Hawks HF poll, Dylan Sikura was #3 prospect in 2018 and #16 prospect in 2019. Point being, a heck of a lot can change in a year.

fwiw - Also in 2018, 5 of the top 6 prospects were defensemen. This year more balanced, 3 of 6 were defensemen.

joki was a top pairing defensman in the making 8 months ago according to pez, won a world championship, won world junior gold medal, and top three player at the world juniors in the last year for his team. had 17 in 30 and a plus 7 for the hogs. he got traded now hes not any good.

 

[ChiHawk21]

If those are his percentages then it is not really that bizarre when you look at his past opinions on the prospects and then look how they evolved as prospects. It is not like he blindly put those numbers where he did which you seem to be implying.

Linking the past is fine but lets add context. Mitchell has really made some big strides in the past year and it would be either foolish or lazy to ignore that. Joker made strides as well (it would also be lazy or foolish to ignore these) but seemed to plateau then regress some (to be fair it was in the NHL). I personally like where Mitchell's game is going more than Joker. Mitchell is going to be a better player in my opinion as I think he has more ability to control the game with his skating and skill (Joker is skilled as well to be clear but I like Mitchell's skill set more). Just an opinion.

I can say for a fact that trading that Joker did not impact my view as him as a prospect at all.

very fair

 

[Pez68]

crazy how trading away a guy will skew opinions so fast.

Yep. That's the only reason opinions skewed. You nailed it.

 

[Pez68]

joki was a top pairing defensman in the making 8 months ago according to pez, won a world championship, won world junior gold medal, and top three player at the world juniors in the last year for his team. had 17 in 30 and a plus 7 for the hogs. he got traded now hes not any good.

Where did I say he's not any good???? Learn to f***ing read.

 

[BK]

joki was a top pairing defensman in the making 8 months ago according to pez, won a world championship, won world junior gold medal, and top three player at the world juniors in the last year for his team. had 17 in 30 and a plus 7 for the hogs. he got traded now hes not any good.

You can still be a top 4 pairing prospect (2-3 type) and not be a top 3 prospect in an organization. Dach, Boqvist, and Mitchell all passed him or were ahead of him from the start.

Nylander has a higher ceiling than Joker but Joker's floor is a little higher. I am partial to higher ceiling players. I really think having Kane (and Toews) mentor Nylander will be huge. Have you noticed in pictures that Dach is always around Kane? I don't think it is a random thing.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Always tries to have a "gotcha" moment for himself, yet falls flat on his face every single time.

 

[Pez68]

It's disturbing how obsessed he is, and how he stalks people. How far back in my post history did he have to dig for that quote?

 

[ChiHawks10]

It's disturbing how obsessed he is, and how he stalks people. How far back in my post history did he have to dig for that quote?

Yep.

 

[BK]

crazy how trading away a guy will skew opinions so fast.

What is the date on that post? Curious.

 

[Pez68]

That post is probably from the beginning of the year, if not older.

It doesn't even matter, because I have never once said Jokiharju is no good, sucks, is a bust, etc...

 

[ChiHawk21]

That post is probably from the beginning of the year, if not older.

It doesn't even matter, because I have never once said Jokiharju is no good, sucks, is a bust, etc...

 

[ChiHawks10]

That post is probably from the beginning of the year, if not older.

It doesn't even matter, because I have never once said Jokiharju is no good, sucks, is a bust, etc...

No one has. People just don't know how to read.

 

[ChiHawk21]

No one has. People just don't know how to read.

nope i read everything just fine...."Maybe Jokiharju becomes a top pairing defender by next season."---gets traded----Now he's a 3rd pairing defender in Buffalo, after not being able to break into a terrible defensive squad last season. And might be back in the AHL once Buffalo's defense is healthy.

 

[ChiHawks10]

nope i read everything just fine...."Maybe Jokiharju becomes a top pairing defender by next season."---gets traded----Now he's a 3rd pairing defender in Buffalo, after not being able to break into a terrible defensive squad last season. And might be back in the AHL once Buffalo's defense is healthy.

No, you really don't.

Right now, Joker is actually a third pairing defender in Buffalo. And when Buffalo's D does get healthy, he will likely be back in the AHL, unless Buffalo makes a trade or something. And yes, he did struggle to find a consistent role in a bad Blackhawks defensive unit last season.

All of that is factual.

Someone saying "Maybe Jokiharju becomes a top pairing defender by next season." has nothing to do with the facts that are listed in the rest of your post, and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he was traded.

 

[Pez68]

nope i read everything just fine...."Maybe Jokiharju becomes a top pairing defender by next season."---gets traded----Now he's a 3rd pairing defender in Buffalo, after not being able to break into a terrible defensive squad last season. And might be back in the AHL once Buffalo's defense is healthy.

No, you really DON'T read everything just fine. Or maybe you read just fine, but have absolutely no reading comprehension whatsoever. As mentioned above, THOSE ARE FACTS.

 

[ChiHawks10]

It really does blow the mind.

Nowhere in any of those facts was it said that Jokiharju is a bad player, sucks, will never make it in the NHL, is a bust, or anything else. It's simply stating facts about the current status of his career. The guy could get a shot with Buffalo due to injury, and end up a 1st pairing D for them later in the season. And it wouldn't bother me in the least if it happens, and I'd be happy for the guy. I'm still not sure where the hell anyone has said that he's not good after he was traded.

 

[AmericanDream]

nope i read everything just fine...."Maybe Jokiharju becomes a top pairing defender by next season."---gets traded----Now he's a 3rd pairing defender in Buffalo, after not being able to break into a terrible defensive squad last season. And might be back in the AHL once Buffalo's defense is healthy.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

It'll still only be 11 games played by the time we reach November. Premature.

When I said November I meant Thanksgiving/the end of the month.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

When I said November I meant Thanksgiving/the end of the month.

I still don't see how Nylander is the wrong piece if he doesn't bring whatever element you think they lack...Theres a whole bunch of guys they can move on from to change the composition of the team to be more balanced...Nylander could be the right player to target in a Joki deal and still be lacking balance in the lineup...Its up to Stan to upgrade the rest of the depth and address that problem.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Strome and/or Nylander will be moved at some point in the future IMO. It doesn’t make sense to pay 4 offensive minded forwards big money with the other holes the Hawks have. That said, Nylander has another ELC year so there is no rush to make a decision on him.

 

[Blackhawks]

JFC man. When you continually flip flop your stance on things after single games, it makes you look foolish and lose all credibility. Just... stop...
I think you've had more bad takes in the past couple months(across all Chicago sports) than anyone else has had in their entire time posting on HF Hawks.



It's evident you didn't watch the opener against Philly. Or most the preseason...

I did watch it and outside the goal he scored he was as BK would say “just fine”

We are done with “just fine” this teams needs to excel again and we need players to dominate, hawks fans seem to be getting too used to loser hockey.

 

[BK]

I did watch it and outside the goal he scored he was as BK would say “just fine”

We are done with “just fine” this teams needs to excel again and we need players to dominate, hawks fans seem to be getting too used to loser hockey.

Nylander also created a few chances for his line mates. You accurate when you say that outside of his goal and chances created he was just fine. He was not a negative in the Hawks end either, which is a big thing with him. Nylander was positive in the game and I am not sure how anyone could say other wise.

Others? Not so much. Crow and Keith standout here along with others not being that good either.

Overall the team should be disappointed with how the game ended.

Anyone know if The Athletic did their typical "player grades" poll after the game?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Outside of all the good things Nylander did game one he didnt really do much...more as this story develops