Proposal: Nylander for Bertuzzi

[Leaf Fans]

Why would Detroit want him than?

Depends on the bad contract they would have to take with him I guess.

 

[Notsince67]

I wouldnt make this trade for Hyman

 

[Go Wings]

Nylander is better than Larkin and would be #1C over him.

LMFAOOOOO fiction can be fun

 

[Oddbob]

Well before Matthews marner and co came along he was >0.5 ppg as a Rookie. On pace for 48 points.

So sick argument but it doesn’t work. To try and perform your mental gymnastics that he’s a product of his peers and not at all driving his own play is downright childish and ignorant to that he’s a very good hockey player. You can have a lucky season, maybe 2, but he’s proven he’s a top line player for years. It’s embarrassing you’re trying to argue otherwise.

your entire argument boils down to a straw man ‘well he could be a 40 point forward’ that’s a joke. And you know it.

6.96 million is the going rate for a 60-70 point player Who’s 24 years old.

Any argument about stats is not in the childish realm and certainly isn't mental gymnastics! Way to try and be smart but come up with ridiculous words for your argument. Your chosen words are embarrassing, not me disagreeing with your view on Nylander, which I also said "MAY" be something with him, never said for sure it was.

 

[LeafGrief]

I'm sorry, but yes that's how it works.
The idea that player point scoring happens in a vacuum completely disconnected to overall team quality and team scoring is unfounded.

Leafs score more because they have better players, that helps everyone put up more points. You CAN'T isolate Bertuzzi from a historically bad team, just like you can't pretend that Nylander puts up his points completely regardless of whether his teammates are Matthews, Marner, Tavares or Erne, Abdelkader, Nielsen.

Sure, but let's not forget that Connor Brown scored 43 points on the Senators this year. Bertuzzi is a perfectly good player, but he was playing 19 minutes a night on a bad team, and even bad teams score goals (see Ottawa and Connor Brown). It's not independent of teammates, but it's not as clear cut as good teammates = more points. There's lots of opportunities for good players to look great on terrible teams due to icetime and opportunities. Take Bertuzzi and put him on the Leafs sure he'll get to play with Tavares and Matthews but he'll be getting way less ice time, far fewer looks on the PP, and a variety of other factors that will either add or contribute to his scoring. It's really not a simple conversion.

If Bertuzzi was as good as Nylander, Larkin was a legit #1C, Cholowski and Mantha were blah blah blah repeat ad nauseum for all your guys, the Red Wings wouldn't have been a historically bad team this year. There are some good players on your team, but it's not logical to assume that your guys would plug into equal roles on the Leafs and see equal success.

 

[SensFactor]

leafs pass. Nylanders three best seasons all better than Bertuzzis career year....and he is a year younger.

Nylander is also playing with elite players compared to Bertuzzi.

 

[TimeZone]

This place just continues to get worse and worse.

My f***ing god how is this seriously a thread?

 

[Fatass]

Is this a trade proposal, or a “who’s better” thread?

 

[Deadly Dogma]

LMFAOOOOO fiction can be fun

Sorry guys Its kinda mean to rub it in that our 5th or 6th best player is better or even to your best player.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Easy yes for this Wings fan. Nylander gets underrated quite a bit here and is worth more than Bertuzzi, I'd say he's around Larkin's value.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I have no issue with saying Nylander and Larkin are in the same class of player.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sure, but let's not forget that Connor Brown scored 43 points on the Senators this year. Bertuzzi is a perfectly good player, but he was playing 19 minutes a night on a bad team, and even bad teams score goals (see Ottawa and Connor Brown). It's not independent of teammates, but it's not as clear cut as good teammates = more points. There's lots of opportunities for good players to look great on terrible teams due to icetime and opportunities. Take Bertuzzi and put him on the Leafs sure he'll get to play with Tavares and Matthews but he'll be getting way less ice time, far fewer looks on the PP, and a variety of other factors that will either add or contribute to his scoring. It's really not a simple conversion.

If Bertuzzi was as good as Nylander, Larkin was a legit #1C, Cholowski and Mantha were blah blah blah repeat ad nauseum for all your guys, the Red Wings wouldn't have been a historically bad team this year. There are some good players on your team, but it's not logical to assume that your guys would plug into equal roles on the Leafs and see equal success.

I agree with all of that definitely.
Although guys like Bertuzzi, Mantha, Larkin are definitely not to blame for the Red Wings overall performance. Wings had probably half the roster not at an NHL level at all.

 

[Fatass]

I agree with all of that definitely.
Although guys like Bertuzzi, Mantha, Larkin are definitely not to blame for the Red Wings overall performance. Wings had probably half the roster not at an NHL level at all.

Is Biega still playing D for the Wings?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nylander is better than Larkin and would be #1C over him.

Hardly doubt Nylander is better then Larkin, Nylanders best season is 61 points on a stacked Leafs team, While Larkin's best season is 73 points on a scoring challenged Red Wings team. If anything Larkin and Nylander are basically the same.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The question is though, can he perform well if he didn't have great teammates like his does in Toronto? I am not super convinced that he can. He could very well be a 40 pt player, whose production goes up with elite linemates. He isn't exactly skating out there with nobodies. Also, I am not saying this is a good trade, in fact I wouldn't do it either, but lets not pretend that Nylander is elite cause he is not, and he gets paid 7 mil which whether you like it or not, is a lot of money for not elite.

I think he would perform well on another team without Matthews as his linemate. He's pretty much excelled at everywhere he's played (WJC,WC, AHL, NHL) so it's not a case of only producing when he has top linemates. No doubt playing with better players on a more offensive team helps though, but watching him play, I don't think I would attribute his success to teammates. We may never know though. He does seem to have the freedom to "fly the zone" more quickly and gain offensive chances that way because of the team and how the Leafs play. If he were to play C, those chances would be less IMO.

That said, I think his contract isn't "a lot". $7M cap hit / $6M salary going forward for what he brings is more than fair IMO.

Skinner, Voracek, Benn, Getzlaf, Kessel, Hall, Johansen, Duchene, Parise, Couture, Tarasenko, Krecji, Hischier, Keller, Hayes, Connor, JVR, E. Kane, Lee, etc... all make more than Nylander and most of them are not elite. A lot of them aren't more productive the past few years as well, some you can say are better players. I won't get into debating this one player vs. that one player, but I think his contract is reasonable IMO.

Not commenting on the trade proposal as I don't know Detroit's situation well enough for my comment on the trade to be of any value.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

No they are cap compliant for the season by sending Engvall to the minors

Curious how Engvall being sent to the minors helps the Leafs be cap compliant, When there's a good chance that there will be no minors this year. Good chance that the AHL gets cancelled.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lol now Nylander is in a bad contract. WTF?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Leafs say no... however, I think Bertuzzi on TO would be perfect. I love the idea from a Leafs standpoint and I think Bert would excel on that team playing with better players

Would definately have to be a Bertuzzi + package... 1 for 1 doesnt work

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Both Detroit and Toronto pass of this trade.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nylander is also playing with elite players compared to Bertuzzi.

Exactly, There's no comparison.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Is Biega still playing D for the Wings?

He's basically our #7 Dman.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Curious how Engvall being sent to the minors helps the Leafs be cap compliant, When there's a good chance that there will be no minors this year. Good chance that the AHL gets cancelled.

Even if there is no AHL, I don't think the NHL will say that all AHL players for every team are going to count against that team's cap. I think they'll have a mechanism that allows players to be "sent down" and not be on the NHL roster / not count against the cap, but be available for emergency call-up. Maybe something like they did in the bubble.

Going to be unique for sure, but I think they'll have an appropriate mechanism.

 

[BlueBaron]

This is your typical leaf fan quote. You can change nylander to any player on leafs roster and that's about it.

If by "typical" you mean "fringe opinion" you nailed it. Is it a "typical" of Wing fans to assume one person speaks for everyone? I'm guessing no and it's one fringe opinion talking to another pretending they matter.

 

[Fatass]

He's basically our #7 Dman.

He’s a guy who plays hard every shift, whether he has the puck or not. That’s what I like about Burtuzzi too. He’s a player with or without the puck. It’s sometimes a bad move trading guys who play that way for a guy who doesn’t.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Even if there is no AHL, I don't think the NHL will say that all AHL players for every team are going to count against that team's cap. I think they'll have a mechanism that allows players to be "sent down" and not be on the NHL roster / not count against the cap, but be available for emergency call-up. Maybe something like they did in the bubble.

Going to be unique for sure, but I think they'll have an appropriate mechanism.

If there's no AHL there will have to be a reserve list, Where teams will have so many players in reserve in case of injuries that wont count against the cap. Probably that's how it will work.