Speculation: Nylander contract talk (All Nylander talk here)

[therealkoho]

somebody should let Bob know that the only pressure points right now are Nylander missing paycheques if he continues the hold-out into the season

The Leafs are still one of the best teams in the east, they are better w/Nylander, of course, but it's not like they can't win w/o him

 

[Burnie97]

he's actually a 1st line centre in Montreal or Arizona

So I think that may say more about how poorly run those teams are then it does about Nylander.

 

[Cotton]

Nylander will sign or be traded, he would never sit out long or play overseas. The question becomes if he signs will he be happy long term in a city where he feels he was forced to sign a unfair deal (in his mind) or will he demand a trade within the next short while (year).

No, those are artifacts of your imagination. Both sides have publicly stated they want each other for the long term, Nylander just happens to employ a player agent notorious for holding out.

 

[Sam Spade]

I hope Nylander squeezes every penny from the Leafs he can. Matthews won't take a penny less than he (and his agent) think he is worth so why should Nylander?

All this stuff about Dubas going to all the core guys and saying this is what we need you to take in order to keep the team together is crazy. This is a business and if you decline at all the team doesn't give it a second thought, you are gone, so get the most you can while you can.

 

[member 157595]

I hope Nylander squeezes every penny from the Leafs he can. Matthews won't take a penny less than he (and his agent) think he is worth so why should Nylander?

All this stuff about Dubas going to all the core guys and saying this is what we need you to take in order to keep the team together is crazy. This is a business and if you decline at all the team doesn't give it a second thought, you are gone, so get the most you can while you can.

Every player wants to get paid as much money as they can and I agree that there's nothing inherently wrong with that at all.

Nylander can only negotiate with a single team, a team capable of staying in playoff position without him. He earns nothing while he sits at home, so it's a balancing act. It would not make good business sense for Dubas to give Nylander an insulting offer, nor is it good business sense for Nylander's agent to demand something far out of reach of his comparables. Personally, I don't think it makes sense to bridge Nylander or to give him $7M+/year on a long-term contract, but there's a lot of middle ground to cover to get a handshake.

In the end, someone is going to blink first. It will either be the very young GM whose dollar power is limited only by the salary cap, or the hockey player coming off a ELC and currently without a contract. If I'm Dubas, I would call Nylander's bluff because I have significantly more leverage than he does.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I hope Nylander squeezes every penny from the Leafs he can. Matthews won't take a penny less than he (and his agent) think he is worth so why should Nylander?

All this stuff about Dubas going to all the core guys and saying this is what we need you to take in order to keep the team together is crazy. This is a business and if you decline at all the team doesn't give it a second thought, you are gone, so get the most you can while you can.

I agree with what you say except...what if this really is an exceptional situation where if somehow management is able to keep the entire young core together and still have some depth because the star players make a small concession at the bargaining table? Would you trade 10% of your salary for several years of a real chance at a Cup in the biggest hockey market in the world? When you're 60 with 25 million in the bank but no championship, would you give 2 million back for that one window of opportunity?

I know everyone's priorities are different but for me it would be no question. Tavares already set the stage by taking less to come here. Willie doesn't have to feel like he's being singled out. If he also sets an example, it makes it that much easier to convince Matthews and Marner up to the same and mo one has to feel slighted.

 

[Sam Spade]

I agree with what you say except...what if this really is an exceptional situation where if somehow management is able to keep the entire young core together and still have some depth because the star players make a small concession at the bargaining table? Would you trade 10% of your salary for several years of a real chance at a Cup in the biggest hockey market in the world? When you're 60 with 25 million in the bank but no championship, would you give 2 million back for that one window of opportunity?

I know everyone's priorities are different but for me it would be no question. Tavares already set the stage by taking less to come here. Willie doesn't have to feel like he's being singled out. If he also sets an example, it makes it that much easier to convince Matthews and Marner up to the same and mo one has to feel slighted.

I agree with your main point, the Cup is the thing, but if Nylander takes less he is taking a leap of faith that so will Matthews, Marner, and soon Reilly. Matthews has indicated he won't take less, no idea about Marner, but if they don't and Nylander does the "team first" that would really irk me. Not so much if I have a Cup ring mind you but still.

Really sucks for Nylander that he had to be the first man up here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

somebody should let Bob know that the only pressure points right now are Nylander missing paycheques if he continues the hold-out into the season

The Leafs are still one of the best teams in the east, they are better w/Nylander, of course, but it's not like they can't win w/o him

Subtract JVR, Bozak, Nylander and add Tavares. And you think you can still win without any problems? With the same defense as last year? Come on man. The Leafs need Nylander just as much as Nylander needs the Leafs.

 

[DomBarr]

No, those are artifacts of your imagination. Both sides have publicly stated they want each other for the long term, Nylander just happens to employ a player agent notorious for holding out.

The agent is easy to blame however at the end of the day that agent works for the player and Nylander has control of his side of the process. If the $ and term of the contracts being offered do not meet what he believes he deserves he will continue to hold out until his desire to play hockey and earn money becomes more important than getting closer to the term and $ he desires because I do not think that the Leafs will cave. Its later that he may well feel he was forced to sign an unfair deal or he might not.

And yes both sides have expressed a desire for a long term contract however long term covers contracts between 4 and 8 years. In addition, there is the $ value attached to that term. Who knows what each side wants related to term and what $ value is attached to that term.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree with your main point, the Cup is the thing, but if Nylander takes less he is taking a leap of faith that so will Matthews, Marner, and soon Reilly. Matthews has indicated he won't take less, no idea about Marner, but if they don't and Nylander does the "team first" that would really irk me. Not so much if I have a Cup ring mind you but still.

Really sucks for Nylander that he had to be the first man up here.

Agreed... Nylander is the first guy to face the cap crunch hard ball negotiations. it does suck for him but he is not backing down clearly. I do expect both sides to meet in the middle somewhere soon. I just wonder if there is any discussions with Matthews and Marner on what they will want or are they avoiding the question from Dubas?

Isn't the smart move here to sign all 3 at the same time so you know what the cap space is? How much will it take to get all 3 on long term deals? It's somewhere between $25M - $30M. That $5M could go a long way with adding the defenseman they need. I think this is what Dubas is playing around with here.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I agree with your main point, the Cup is the thing, but if Nylander takes less he is taking a leap of faith that so will Matthews, Marner, and soon Reilly. Matthews has indicated he won't take less, no idea about Marner, but if they don't and Nylander does the "team first" that would really irk me. Not so much if I have a Cup ring mind you but still.

Really sucks for Nylander that he had to be the first man up here.

But really, isn't committing in the $6-7M range to a young player for 6, 7 or 8 years, especially in the cap era, a similar leap of faith? The current management regime has demonstrated a commitment to win (and to finally do it the right way). This commitment can work both ways.

 

[Drytoast]

Let's be honest.. The #1 weapon that Nylander's camp has is already in motion. The media and sites like this are all over the Leafs and putting a ton of pressure on management to get it done.

In the past it would have worked. This is why it is so important Dubas doesn't blink. He has several key deals coming up and he needs to prove that trying to use the pressure of being in Toronto as leverage does nothing but bad PR for both sides, with no impact on the actual deal.

He will sign when he sits out a game or two in the regular season. If he still doesn't want to, sit him the entire year if you have to unless someone offers a top pairing RD who fits the core's age.

At the end of the day he will sign.

Yet everyone ive seen whos a fan whos talked about this knows the importance of our cap and where nylander resides in pecking order

Of anything willies canp is makig willie look bad

 

[member 157595]

Subtract JVR, Bozak, Nylander and add Tavares. And you think you can still win without any problems?

During the regular season (which is the time period where Nylander would be not getting paid while his peers make bank) they can win enough games to stay at/near playoff position without William Nylander.

With the same defense as last year? Come on man. The Leafs need Nylander just as much as Nylander needs the Leafs.

They do need Nylander to seriously contend. But during the regular season, where Nylander would be losing paychecks, the Leafs have more leverage than he does.

 

[Habs Halifax]

During the regular season (which is the time period where Nylander would be not getting paid while his peers make bank) they can win enough games to stay at/near playoff position without William Nylander.

They do need Nylander to seriously contend. But during the regular season, where Nylander would be losing paychecks, the Leafs have more leverage than he does.

Like I said, Subtact JVR, Bozak, and Nylander and add Tavares. And you think you don't need Nylander to seriously contend? Be careful with the hype. Leafs have a great offensive team but subtracting a key player like Nylander does have an impact.

Overall team momentum and confidence is not something you should screw around with.

 

[member 157595]

Like I said, Subtact JVR, Bozak, and Nylander and add Tavares. And you think you don't need Nylander to seriously contend? Be careful with the hype. Leafs have a great offensive team but subtracting a key player like Nylander does have an impact.

Overall team momentum and confidence is not something you should screw around with.

...I literally said verbatim that the Leafs DO need William Nylander to seriously contend. That doesn't mean it makes sense for them to rush into a contract with Nylander considering the domino effect that could result from that action.

I'm no pompom-waver. I neither contribute to nor spread any hype. Even at 100% they are far from the Cup favorite; they're not even the Cup favorite in their own division. They haven't even proven they can win a playoff round yet and I'll believe it when I see it. But I do believe they have more leverage than Nylander does and I do believe the Leafs have a team that COULD (not WILL) do some postseason damage.

 

[Habs Halifax]

...I literally said verbatim that the Leafs DO need William Nylander to seriously contend. That doesn't mean it makes sense for them to rush into a contract with Nylander considering the domino effect that could result from that action.

I'm no pompom-waver. I neither contribute to nor spread any hype. Even at 100% they are far from the Cup favorite; they're not even the Cup favorite in their own division. They haven't even proven they can win a playoff round yet and I'll believe it when I see it. But I do believe they have more leverage than Nylander does and I do believe the Leafs have a team that COULD (not WILL) do some postseason damage.

My bad... I read that wrong. I thought you said do not.

Honestly, neither side is rushing into a deal they won't like. I'm not surprised. I have the Leafs as a cup contender but not a cup favorite. Adding Tavares but subtracting JVR and Bozak is an upgrade but by how much? This is what I have a hard time trying to pin down. They scored like 277 goals last year and that is a lot! Matching this or scoring more than this is not automatic. The key to this team is the goals allowed. Everybody knows it.

 

[StreetHawk]

I agree with what you say except...what if this really is an exceptional situation where if somehow management is able to keep the entire young core together and still have some depth because the star players make a small concession at the bargaining table? Would you trade 10% of your salary for several years of a real chance at a Cup in the biggest hockey market in the world? When you're 60 with 25 million in the bank but no championship, would you give 2 million back for that one window of opportunity?

I know everyone's priorities are different but for me it would be no question. Tavares already set the stage by taking less to come here. Willie doesn't have to feel like he's being singled out. If he also sets an example, it makes it that much easier to convince Matthews and Marner up to the same and mo one has to feel slighted.

Difference between Tavares and nylander situation is that Tavares banked $40 million prior to this deal with the leafs whereas nylander is at what $6-8 million from his elc plus bonuses?

You don’t want to be the guy who gets short changed. You want to be paid fairly for what you bring to the table. Don’t want to be taking 85% of what you can get only to see M and M get their full 100%

Who’s to say that the other guys will take less? Plus, there’s no guarantee of a championship. Their division is tough and that doesn’t appear to be changing any time soon with TB, BOS, and what BUF has added in young talent save for the goalie position. I don’t foresee the NHL going away from divisional playoffs mainly due to the western conference. When Seattle arrives, you’d have 7 PST teams 3 MST and 6 CST. Doubt any other central teams want to play the pacific for 2 straight rounds. Time zone issue more than the travel.

 

[ITM]

No, those are artifacts of your imagination. Both sides have publicly stated they want each other for the long term, Nylander just happens to employ a player agent notorious for holding out.

Well said and precisely the case.

In each instance where the agent in question has negotiated contracts for his clients, his clients continued to play for the clubs they were with before their extensions.

All positives to take for Leafs fans.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Subtract JVR, Bozak, Nylander and add Tavares. And you think you can still win without any problems? With the same defense as last year? Come on man. The Leafs need Nylander just as much as Nylander needs the Leafs.

Is Nylander sitting out the whole year in this scenario? Because I'm pretty sure he'd be traded for a defenseman at that point, so it's not like we'd be losing him and have nothing is coming back.

 

[Sam Spade]

But really, isn't committing in the $6-7M range to a young player for 6, 7 or 8 years, especially in the cap era, a similar leap of faith? The current management regime has demonstrated a commitment to win (and to finally do it the right way). This commitment can work both ways.

Of course and this is where the gambling/risk/faith comes in. Sometimes you get Scheifele sometimes, sometimes you get Nugent-Hopkins.

 

[StreetHawk]

Is Nylander sitting out the whole year in this scenario? Because I'm pretty sure he'd be traded for a defenseman at that point, so it's not like we'd be losing him and have nothing is coming back.

That should also be a consideration for him in these negotiations in that he could be traded right? Why take a discount when the next 4 years you can’t have a ntc. So if you give the discount no guarantee that the leafs keep you rather than use you as the centrepiece of a dea for a Dman.

So you’re taking less and suddenly you get dealt to another team in year 2 of this deal?

 

[Confucius]

I agree with what you say except...what if this really is an exceptional situation where if somehow management is able to keep the entire young core together and still have some depth because the star players make a small concession at the bargaining table? Would you trade 10% of your salary for several years of a real chance at a Cup in the biggest hockey market in the world? When you're 60 with 25 million in the bank but no championship, would you give 2 million back for that one window of opportunity?

I know everyone's priorities are different but for me it would be no question. Tavares already set the stage by taking less to come here. Willie doesn't have to feel like he's being singled out. If he also sets an example, it makes it that much easier to convince Matthews and Marner up to the same and mo one has to feel slighted.

25 million? At worst Nylander guaranteed himself 40 if he never plays a game again.and it’s more than likely closer to 50 million If he signs. How somebody can holdout for something better is bizarre.

 

[Critical13]

Nylander is borderine 1c, or so ive read

9 mil or bust

Since when would a borderline C get 9 million?

Seguin just signed for 9.5 and he is a high end #1C with no restriction year left. Or were you just being a little shit?

 

[Critical13]

The great thing about this whole argument is that I have faith in this team being a contender even without Willy. He just makes us that much better

 

[Sugi21]

You always aim higher than expected.

Yep pretty standard negotiating tactics why sell yourself low eh?