Nylander Chronicles XXIX - The Walking Dead Version

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

I thought earlier...no way he goes, deal will get done.

Definitely turned the corner on this one... I'm quite certain he's now going, via trade.

What a weird dude, to choose to leave a really good potential cup contender for what may be the next ten years... leave all that potential endorsement money that comes with a good hockey team in TO (plus, he's a handsome lad)...for a million and a half more for a few years, playing for a crappy team with very little money from endorsements.

I don't get it, myself...but yeah.

Maybe there is subconsciously an underlying reason. Perhaps he has an internal feud or something.

 

[Confucius]

It sounds as if you said he's quitting...

You mean, re-sign? Like, sign with the Leafs?

Why not just say sign? Afterall he isn't currently signed.

 

[Stigma]

Maybe there is subconsciously an underlying reason. Perhaps he has an internal feud or something.

Can you expand on that last statement? I also think there's complicated psychological reasons behind this. Everything else doesn't make sense. Like someone said, the extra money is so short-sighted given who he will be playing with for the next 7 years. Matthews will boost his point totals. Him playing centre with some crap team? I doubt it (though I may be wrong).

This is a rich guy from a rich family. It's not like he has to feed 13 siblings living in a small town in Manitoba. The camera also loves this guy. He can make a lot of supplemental income doing commercials and other things. He can probably work in the media after his career is done too. The money will always be there.

I don't get it.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Can you expand on that last statement? I also think there's complicated psychological reasons behind this. Everything else doesn't make sense. Like someone said, the extra money is so short-sighted given who he will be playing with for the next 7 years. Matthews will boost his point totals. Him playing centre with some crap team? I doubt it (though I may be wrong).

This is a rich guy from a rich family. It's not like he has to feed 13 siblings living in a small town in Manitoba. The camera also loves this guy. He can make a lot of supplemental income doing commercials and other things. He can probably work in the media after his career is done too. The money will always be there.

I don't get it.

I dont get it either. There is definately more then meets the eye. I agree with psychological reasons as you suggested. To Answer your question about my second statement. Maybe he thinks there are too many chiefs and not enough indians in the dressing room meaning perhaps guys are on power trips in the dressing room and media hasn't leaked anything yet. I couldnt tell you really. Maybe he didnt like the Tavares signing because Nylander doesnt believe the management and coaching staff have faith in his ability to play center that's why they acquired Tavares and Nylander has been on the wing. Something fishy going on nonetheless.

 

[Damisoph]

Another day, no news. Goddamn it Willie wtf is wrong with you

 

[Stigma]

I dont get it either. There is definately more then meets the eye. I agree with psychological reasons as you suggested. To Answer your question about my second statement. Maybe he thinks there are too many chiefs and not enough indians in the dressing room meaning perhaps guys are on power trips in the dressing room and media hasn't leaked anything yet. I couldnt tell you really. Maybe he didnt like the Tavares signing because Nylander doesnt believe the management and coaching staff have faith in his ability to play center that's why they acquired Tavares and Nylander has been on the wing. Something fishy going on nonetheless.

Yeah, I think the last statement about Tavares is a factor in this. There's definitely more than just money disagreements going on here.

 

[socko]

I wonder if hes thought about the teams who might be looking to trade for him, how different it would be.
On almost every team who is rumored to be interested in him, he will need to be 'the guy'.
.

I think Aho would be the guy. Willie would likely be the 2nd line center. The talent he will be playing with is far removed from Auston Matthews.

 

[Confucius]

Pretty much. Wouldn't even be shocked if the Leafs were going out a little bit lower than that even, but that is still well within his range of comparable players.

I think at this point, as long as Dubas does not give him too much money or trades him off for less than he is worth, I can not blame him for anything. I think he's handled things fairly, based off of what we know anyways, so if a guy does not want to be here, then it's his right to move on. I just hope it does not come out that Dubas was being unfair to Nylander if he gets dealt, especially if he was offering money in the 6's. I am not going to hate Nylander either way, but I will say he should definitely look at a new agent if he ends up somewhere else or not playing altogether.

But under the rules is it his right to move on? If a player doesn't want to play for the team that drafts him, is it his right to move on? I'd agree it's his right not to play but he should have no expectation to be appeased and moved to another team.

 

[Nineteen67]

Another day, no news. Goddamn it Willie wtf is wrong with you

You do know that the “insiders” were just getting to bed when you posted this. After a hazy dream, they’ll wake up, swig a coffee, and fill us in on what didn’t happen..

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It is correct but people I think misunderstand what it means.

Let’s says Willy wants a 7 x 7, 49M contract. Since he has held out, he does not get paid for the days he misses. So yea he signs a $49M contract, but the actual money he receives is a little less. For the later years, you want to calculate the accurate AAV, so you take the amount Willy will actually make on the contract (the value that’s slightly less than $49M) and divide it by the total contract years, and that gets you the actual AAV of the contract which is what we use in the later years. The first year cap hit is higher, but that’s only because cap hit accrues daily and you since Willy is playing less days than in the other seasons, his daily cap hit needs to be higher to reach the same end point.

Where the confusion comes from I feel is that it’s only a saving if Willy doesn’t change his ask. Like if Willy wanted 49M, and wanted to see every penny of that 49M, his ask each day would go up, so that the money he actually receives is 49M. Kyle Dubas would be against this, because there has to be some consequence to holding out. If players can recoup any lost wages, every RFA would hold out.

Basically, yea it “saves” us cap, but the only reason for that is because the actual money Willy gets is less than what’s on the contract which Willy will fight against. It might officially say it’s a 49M contract, but since Willy has missed time and lost some wages it’s actually just a 47M contract or whatever and this unofficial number is what’s used to calculate cap hit. It saves us cap the same way if Willy just took a smaller contract earlier in the year.

Nylanders cap hit will be the total amount of money he receives divided by term, regardless of when he signs. So I fail to see how anyone can use the words “cap savings”.
Whether it’s october 1st, or December first, his cap hit will be the total amount of money he receives divided by term.

 

[Marshy]

I can't decide if I prefer updates stating "The feeling is..." or "There is renewed..."

....how about you guys?

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Yeah, I think the last statement about Tavares is a factor in this. There's definitely more than just money disagreements going on here.

I agree 100%

 

[Damisoph]

You do know that the “insiders” were just getting to bed when you posted this. After a hazy dream, they’ll wake up, swig a coffee, and fill us in on what didn’t happen..

True, but it is like 11am or something in Sweden.

 

[ACC1224]

True, but it is like 11am or something in Sweden.

When you're unemployed you can stay in bed all day.

 

[LeafsHome]

Get the feeling both sides letting this go to the deadline to get Willy the most money and lower cap hit for subsequent years - people say it can't be done. I don't know.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Get the feeling both sides letting this go to the deadline to get Willy the most money and lower cap hit for subsequent years - people say it can't be done. I don't know.

That does cost Nylander money though

 

[ToneDog]

That does cost Nylander money though

Not if they give him enough to make up the difference between signing prior to Dec 1 and Dec 1. Correct me if I am wrong Willie will be making less money in year 1 of the contract so the amount of money he is losing is smaller than if it were year 6 of the contract.

 

[LeafsHome]

The funny thing in this entire saga has been the so called trade rumours - i can tell you for a fact that no GM in the league has offered to trade for Nylander - there is an unwrtitten rule(ole boys club) that you don't offer-sheet or try and acquire a RFA via a trade if that RFA is withholding services - these trade rumours are leaked to the media to give the illusion that there is no collusion amongst the leagues GM's

 

[Walshy7]

The funny thing in this entire saga has been the so called trade rumours - i can tell you for a fact that no GM in the league has offered to trade for Nylander - there is an unwrtitten rule(ole boys club) that you don't offer-sheet or try and acquire a RFA via a trade if that RFA is withholding services - these trade rumours are leaked to the media to give the illusion that there is no collusion amongst the leagues GM's

source? we get a lot of wannabe insiders around here with "I can tell you for a fact" type posts

 

[LeafsHome]

source? we get a lot of wannabe insiders around here with "I can tell you for a fact" type posts

Forget it

Gross and Nylander Sr. walked into a lions den without even knowing it

 

[Macallan18]

Pretty much. Wouldn't even be shocked if the Leafs were going out a little bit lower than that even, but that is still well within his range of comparable players.

I think at this point, as long as Dubas does not give him too much money or trades him off for less than he is worth, I can not blame him for anything. I think he's handled things fairly, based off of what we know anyways, so if a guy does not want to be here, then it's his right to move on. I just hope it does not come out that Dubas was being unfair to Nylander if he gets dealt, especially if he was offering money in the 6's. I am not going to hate Nylander either way, but I will say he should definitely look at a new agent if he ends up somewhere else or not playing altogether.

A new agent? How does he get a new father?????

 

[BayStreetBully]

Another day, no news. Goddamn it Willie wtf is wrong with you

If anything does happen, I don’t expect it until November 30 or December 1.

$6 million or sit a year.

 

[SprDaVE]

Friedman this morning on Nylander. He seems to think he's more likely to be traded than signed.

Friedman on Nylander, Leafs and pressure dynamics

“I think one of the things that happens here is people kind of throw around the labels, ‘Who’s got more pressure on them.’ I can assure you that everybody involved here is feeling a lot of pressure because Nylander is sitting this out for a goal and Dubas is holding firm for a goal, and there is going to be a chance that nobody here achieves their goals. I think it’s very possible.

“And you know what? If Nylander goes somewhere else and Toronto wins, he’s going to look back and say, ‘I could have been part of that.’ And if Toronto trades him and he goes somewhere else and he lights it up somewhere else and that team wins better than Toronto, Toronto is going to look and say, ‘That guy was ours.’

“I’m sure they’re both sitting there right now and there’s probably a mix of anger, frustration, regret - there’s a lot of different things. But I think the only honest way to look at it right now is whatever the plans were two months ago, they’re all awry, and that it looks more likely now he’s getting traded than he’s signing.”

 

[LeafsHome]

This talk about Nylander wanting to play center is incorrect - Nylander would play on Mars if the money was right

 

[BayStreetBully]

Friedman this morning on Nylander:

Friedman on Nylander, Leafs and pressure dynamics

“I think one of the things that happens here is people kind of throw around the labels, ‘Who’s got more pressure on them.’ I can assure you that everybody involved here is feeling a lot of pressure because Nylander is sitting this out for a goal and Dubas is holding firm for a goal, and there is going to be a chance that nobody here achieves their goals. I think it’s very possible.

“And you know what? If Nylander goes somewhere else and Toronto wins, he’s going to look back and say, ‘I could have been part of that.’ And if Toronto trades him and he goes somewhere else and he lights it up somewhere else and that team wins better than Toronto, Toronto is going to look and say, ‘That guy was ours.’

“I’m sure they’re both sitting there right now and there’s probably a mix of anger, frustration, regret - there’s a lot of different things. But I think the only honest way to look at it right now is whatever the plans were two months ago, they’re all awry, and that it looks more likely now he’s getting traded than he’s signing.”

Then let him sit a year.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Friedman this morning on Nylander. He seems to think he's more likely to be traded than signed.

Friedman on Nylander, Leafs and pressure dynamics

“I think one of the things that happens here is people kind of throw around the labels, ‘Who’s got more pressure on them.’ I can assure you that everybody involved here is feeling a lot of pressure because Nylander is sitting this out for a goal and Dubas is holding firm for a goal, and there is going to be a chance that nobody here achieves their goals. I think it’s very possible.

“And you know what? If Nylander goes somewhere else and Toronto wins, he’s going to look back and say, ‘I could have been part of that.’ And if Toronto trades him and he goes somewhere else and he lights it up somewhere else and that team wins better than Toronto, Toronto is going to look and say, ‘That guy was ours.’

“I’m sure they’re both sitting there right now and there’s probably a mix of anger, frustration, regret - there’s a lot of different things. But I think the only honest way to look at it right now is whatever the plans were two months ago, they’re all awry, and that it looks more likely now he’s getting traded than he’s signing.”

Shout out to Elliott Friedman out here reading HFboards.

You da real mvp.