NYI holds the 5th pick; June 1st drop-dead date on conditional 1st – Part II

[dotcommunism]

Because Murray made a bad trade? We also had to take a cap dump when we could have just moved Halak for a 2nd to Colorado. If the Avs moved a 2nd for Reto Berra I'm sure they would have moved it for Halak because Berra is ****ing terrible.

This logic doesn't follow at all. Klesla was a cap dump, yes, but so what, Buffalo wasn't exactly wanting for cap space and also could've used Klesla to bolster the AHL lineup. Secondly, the fact that Colorado traded for Berra has absolutely nothing to do with Halak. Halak and Berra were both pending UFAs. Colorado, in case you haven't noticed, already has a starting goalie. They have absolutely no need for Halak who would have just walked at the end of the season. Berra, however, takes over the backup duties from Giguere, who's retiring. Presumably they see something they like in Berra since they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

There is literally no reason that Colorado would have traded for Halak, much less given up a 2nd for him.

 

[haseoke39]

Contract status, for one

Yeah, that's basically the only thing you can say in that trade's favor, and that's not much. It's not even like Neuvirth is that much younger than Halak.

Back on deadline day, there were a ton of folks around here looking to crucify you if you said anything critical of our shiny new toy GM. Give it a couple years....

 

[1972]

If Halak is so good then why did the Sabres trade him and a high 2015 3rd for nev?

Contract, age, and saturated market. They got a young 1B goalie with potential for essentially a 3rd round pick, it's not a bad trade.

 

[haseoke39]

This logic doesn't follow at all. Klesla was a cap dump, yes, but so what, Buffalo wasn't exactly wanting for cap space and also could've used Klesla to bolster the AHL lineup. Secondly, the fact that Colorado traded for Berra has absolutely nothing to do with Halak. Halak and Berra were both pending UFAs. Colorado, in case you haven't noticed, already has a starting goalie. They have absolutely no need for Halak who would have just walked at the end of the season. Berra, however, takes over the backup duties from Giguere, who's retiring. Presumably they see something they like in Berra since they gave up a 2nd round pick for him.

There is literally no reason that Colorado would have traded for Halak, much less given up a 2nd for him.

Is your argument actually that Colorado wanted Berra more than they would have wanted Halak because Berra was the worse goalie?

 

[dotcommunism]

Yeah, that's basically the only thing you can say in that trade's favor, and that's not much. It's not even like Neuvirth is that much younger than Halak.

Back on deadline day, there were a ton of folks around here looking to crucify you if you said anything critical of our shiny new toy GM. Give it a couple years....

Oh please, this is ridiculous. The fact that a lot of other people thought your arguments were bull doesn't mean that clearly everyone was ganging up on you because you dared criticize Murray. But, please, keep banging that drum

 

[BananaSquad]

Murray likes Neuvirth as a goalie. Reason he made the trade.....

 

[dotcommunism]

Is your argument actually that Colorado wanted Berra more than they would have wanted Halak because Berra was the worse goalie?

They wanted Berra because they actually had a use for Berra. Halak would not, under any circumstances, have re-signed in Colorado to be Varlamov's backup. Berra has already re-signed. Is it really that hard to believe Colorado would give up more for the guy they thought they could keep than the guy who was purely a rental (and a rental who doesn't really add anything either?)

 

[haseoke39]

Oh please, this is ridiculous. The fact that a lot of other people thought your arguments were bull doesn't mean that clearly everyone was ganging up on you because you dared criticize Murray. But, please, keep banging that drum

Well, I'm obviously in the minority, but I have no idea how trading a starting goalie and a third rounder for a backup goalie and a cap dump makes any sense whatsoever. And it sounds like a lot of people are going to great lengths to convince themselves that Murray must be right - to the point where they don't know what to say in his defense except that if he "sees something" in Neuvirth, it must all be worth it.

When that's what you're hanging your hat on, that's shiny new toy syndrome if ever I saw it.

 

[1972]

Murray likes Neuvirth as a goalie. Reason he made the trade.....

No kidding, it's not that hard to figure out. He get's a 25 year old goalie who was once considered the future in Washington for a 3rd round pick that if all goes well plays in the league 5-6 years from now if at all. I swear posters are so obsessed with draft picks that it's ridiculous.

 

[haseoke39]

They wanted Berra because they actually had a use for Berra. Halak would not, under any circumstances, have re-signed in Colorado to be Varlamov's backup. Berra has already re-signed. Is it really that hard to believe Colorado would give up more for the guy they thought they could keep than the guy who was purely a rental (and a rental who doesn't really add anything either?)

Yeah, so your argument is that they wanted to pay more for the worse goalie because he was worse.

The assumption that they never could've signed Halak is just silly. Tell Halak he can compete for starts - nothing wrong with that, and I'm not sure he wouldn't have earned a bunch. Nothing wrong with having a good backup.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Did no one hear Murray say he believes Neuvy can be a starter? He's said it like 3 times.

 

[haseoke39]

Did no one hear Murray say he believes Neuvy can be a starter? He's said it like 3 times.

He's gotta prove it. He can trade our first overall for some other 26 year old backup tomorrow and tell us he's winning the Vezina, doesn't mean anything until he proves it.

 

[1972]

Well, I'm obviously in the minority, but I have no idea how trading a starting goalie and a third rounder for a backup goalie and a cap dump makes any sense whatsoever. And it sounds like a lot of people are going to great lengths to convince themselves that Murray must be right - to the point where they don't know what to say in his defense except that if he "sees something" in Neuvirth, it must all be worth it.

When that's what you're hanging your hat on, that's shiny new toy syndrome if ever I saw it.

Well it's not hard to figure out, but I will explain it to you. That starting goalie is a UFA and not many teams are looking to acquire rental goalies at the trade deadline. The Sabres probably could have returned a 3rd or 4th round pick, but elected to get an actual young NHL goalie with upside and experience. It's not hard to see why the move was made.

 

[1972]

He's gotta prove it. He can trade our first overall for some other 26 year old backup tomorrow and tell us he's winning the Vezina, doesn't mean anything until he proves it.

do you realize how stupid you sound? (not personally, just you're argument)

 

[haseoke39]

Well it's not hard to figure out, but I will explain it to you. That starting goalie is a UFA and not many teams are looking to acquire rental goalies at the trade deadline. The Sabres probably could have returned a 3rd or 4th round pick, but elected to get an actual young NHL goalie with upside and experience. It's not hard to see why the move was made.

Frankly, I don't think Neuvirth was worth the third rounder alone. Sure, you gotta get something for Halak before he walks, but we'd have been better off just letting him walk at that point.

And before (too late) everyone jumps all over me, no, it's not a huge loss. But that doesn't make it smart.

 

[dotcommunism]

Yeah, so your argument is that they wanted to pay more for the worse goalie because he was worse.

The assumption that they never could've signed Halak is just silly. Tell Halak he can compete for starts - nothing wrong with that, and I'm not sure he wouldn't have earned a bunch. Nothing wrong with having a good backup.

Are you seriously arguing with a straight face that Halak would have forgone free agency and signed with Colorado, for a lot less money than he could have gotten to be a starter on the open market, so that he could maybe have the chance to win some starts? That's utterly ridiculous.

Colorado presumably saw Berra as more than a pure rental, which is a reasonable conclusion since they've already signed him to an extension. Halak would have been a pure rental, there's no reasonable argument otherwise. Furthermore, he would have been a pure rental that doesn't even fill a need. What sense does that make for Colorado?

 

[haseoke39]

do you realize how stupid you sound?

You can defend absolutely any trade the way you're defending it, is my point. Nobody's coming out and defending Neuvirth himself as a goaltender, because his career sucks so far. So we're just saying, whatever Murray says about Neuvirth is what we're gonna judge the trade on. And that's ridiculous.

 

[haseoke39]

Are you seriously arguing with a straight face that Halak would have forgone free agency and signed with Colorado, for a lot less money than he could have gotten to be a starter on the open market, so that he could maybe have the chance to win some starts? That's utterly ridiculous.

Colorado presumably saw Berra as more than a pure rental, which is a reasonable conclusion since they've already signed him to an extension. Halak would have been a pure rental, there's no reasonable argument otherwise. Furthermore, he would have been a pure rental that doesn't even fill a need. What sense does that make for Colorado?

Yeah, he just got dumped off a contender where he was splitting starts anyways. I don't see Halak going anywhere but a desperate team like the Islanders and taking over the unquestioned #1 job. There's just not a market like that.

If Halak doesn't sign with the Islanders, who else is going to give him the unquestioned starter's job this summer?

 

[dotcommunism]

Yeah, he just got dumped off a contender where he was splitting starts anyways. I don't see Halak going anywhere but a desperate team like the Islanders and taking over the unquestioned #1 job. There's just not a market like that.

If Halak doesn't sign with the Islanders, who else is going to give him the unquestioned starter's job this summer?

So the fact that Halak might not be able to get a starting job anywhere other than the Islanders means that he would have given up his chance at free agency so he can get paid $1.5 million a year? Absurd.

Halak would have walked from Colorado. The idea that Colorado would've traded a 2nd for Halak because they gave that up for Berra is completely ridiculous and based on completely ignoring any idea of asset management because "A is better than B". That's not how real world hockey teams operate

 

[1972]

You can defend absolutely any trade the way you're defending it, is my point. Nobody's coming out and defending Neuvirth himself as a goaltender, because his career sucks so far. So we're just saying, whatever Murray says about Neuvirth is what we're gonna judge the trade on. And that's ridiculous.

Do you expect Buffalo to get an elite young goalie for a 3rd round pick? guys like Varlamov, Quick, Crawford, Niemi, Bishop ect all had similar careers at his age. Sorry to tell you this but not every goalie is a Carey Price or Tuuka Rask.

I bet you probably thought Yzerman was stupid for trading an almighty 4th round pick and Conacher for Bishop as well. What do you honestly expect for a 3rd round pick?

We needed an NHL goaltender and we got one for a 3rd round pick, one that our management and others around the league think has the potential to be a starter. It's not hard to see why that move was made.

 

[haseoke39]

Do you expect Buffalo to get an elite young goalie for a 3rd round pick?

I don't expect anything for a third rounder, I just don't think we needed or want another backup goalie here, so why blow one for nothing?

 

[dotcommunism]

I don't expect anything for a third rounder, I just don't think we needed or want another backup goalie here, so why blow one for nothing?

Why exactly do you think Murray even made the trade if he didn't want Neuvirth?

 

[1972]

I don't expect anything for a third rounder, I just don't think we needed or want another backup goalie here, so why blow one for nothing?

well we got a 1B goalie for 2014-2015 and maybe beyond, and absolutely we needed another goaltender to challenge Enroth. And yes Tim Murray wanted Neuvirth.

 

[haseoke39]

Why exactly do you think Murray even made the trade if he didn't want Neuvirth?

?

I'm not arguing about what Murray wants, he obviously wants whatever trade he does.

 

[BananaSquad]

I don't expect anything for a third rounder, I just don't think we needed or want another backup goalie here, so why blow one for nothing?

Murray sees him as a starter.... He took a chance ( if trading a 3rd round pick is taking a chance) at getting a young starter for this team.