NY Times Report on Concussions

[Ziggy Stardust]

Did you know that there are state commissions that exist and that boxers have to pass a physical in order to perform? Failing that physical would lead to a "suspension," meaning they are unfit to compete. That is why in MMA, you see athletes listed as "suspended" after they suffer from a KO or TKO.

You probably didn't know that.

Of course the athlete should know the consequences that repeated blows to the head are bad. But they also know if they didn't do their job, they'd be cut and the team would have a new cement head in to replace them.

And if they are following orders from doctors and team execs, like Mike Peluso did, then shouldn't they also be found liable for a player's well-being? That is the main concern. This topic isn't about removing anything from the sport. It is about culpability.

But go ahead, jump to your uneducated conclusions.

 

[sandysan]

It's almost like contact sports are dangerous. Who would have thought? I know I got my bell rung a couple times when I played football in high school. Decided that wasn't for me. lol Fighting is an easy one for people to hang their hat on as far as blaming CTE, but if we're honest with ourselves, checking is the major cause of it in players and that's not so easy to talk about removing if you're serious about preventing it.

Keep in mind, better helmets don't really help with concussions unless they can some how keep your brain from rattling around in your skull. They're just better at protecting your skull from busting.

Did you know that there are state commissions that exist and that boxers have to pass a physical in order to perform? Failing that physical would lead to a "suspension," meaning they are unfit to compete. That is why in MMA, you see athletes listed as "suspended" after they suffer from a KO or TKO.

You probably didn't know that.

Of course the athlete should know the consequences that repeated blows to the head are bad. But they also know if they didn't do their job, they'd be cut and the team would have a new cement head in to replace them.

And if they are following orders from doctors and team execs, like Mike Peluso did, then shouldn't they also be found liable for a player's well-being? That is the main concern. This topic isn't about removing anything from the sport. It is about culpability.

But go ahead, jump to your uneducated conclusions.

so mike peluso, when he signed a contract lost the ability to think for himself ? His employers should have told him to go rob banks and bring them the profits. Doctors and lawyers have higher incidence of suicide than the general public, if they think that they might be next, they can leave and find something else to do even when their hospital or their firm will simply hire someone else when they leave.

Players overwhelming CHOOSE to fight. what their motivations might be is, as adults, on them. You cannot do something you KNOW has negative consequences ( and benefits) then cry when these consequences are realized. well you can if you dont mind being a hyppocrite ( lots of people seemingly don't). and guess what, if you REALLY REALLY don't want to fight in the NHL, so long as you keep your stick in check you will have nothing to fear. The VERY same system you say emperils players, also protects others ( provided they are responsible with their sticks). Does it even out ? Who is to say ? Does having a guy who will throw keep opponents more cognizant of their sticks and knees ? The players seem to think so. for a century straight. but tthey are also the unwashed uneducated and simply should defer to what YOU would do. mr ivory tower !

Team doctors DO NOT force players to play, much less to fight. A team doctor can clear a player to play but its on him and lots of players routinely decline fights. As for the boxing, the NHL now has independent people in the dark room evaluating when players are suspected of having a concussion. could they do better ? sure. Do they have a deloream to go back in time with the knowledge we have acquired now ? No, no they do not. its such a shame because that was sucj an essential component of your argument. what a shame.

but nice jab with " cement head". How's that chardonnay ? is is uber oaky ? you think the people in the book club will enjoy it ?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Did you know that there are enforcers out their who hated their role? Did you know that for some of these said enforcers, the only way for them to get to the NHL and to keep a job was to become enforcers? Do you know what the role of the enforcer entails? Did anyone back then know what CTE was? Nope. They started discovering CTE among professional athletes in the mid-2000s.

The NHL didn't have any concussion protocol in place until recently. Is an athlete going to know more than a doctor? You make it sound like there's a freedom of choice for a player like Peluso or Peat. If they don't do their jobs, they would be out of a job, and they were paid to fight and enforce. They didn't know anything of the long term hazards of their vocation. Back then, being concussed was "having your bell rung" and you'd just have to "shake off those cobwebs."

I also don't find the league largely at fault, the improvements and advancements in neurological studies has helped bring this topic to the forefront. I'm more concerned with the lack of support being shown by the league and the players' association in not helping these particular individuals.

But then you have these bozos with their hit-and-run comments accusing us of wanting to pacify the league when that is far from what anyone is suggesting.

Learn to read.

 

[CanCHI]

Did you know that there are enforcers out their who hated their role? Did you know that for some of these said enforcers, the only way for them to get to the NHL and to keep a job was to become enforcers? Do you know what the role of the enforcer entails? Did anyone back then know what CTE was? Nope. They started discovering CTE among professional athletes in the mid-2000s.

The NHL didn't have any concussion protocol in place until recently. Is an athlete going to know more than a doctor? You make it sound like there's a freedom of choice for a player like Peluso or Peat. If they don't do their jobs, they would be out of a job, and they were paid to fight and enforce. They didn't know anything of the long term hazards of their vocation. Back then, being concussed was "having your bell rung" and you'd just have to "shake off those cobwebs."

I also don't find the league largely at fault, the improvements and advancements in neurological studies has helped bring this topic to the forefront. I'm more concerned with the lack of support being shown by the league and the players' association in not helping these particular individuals.

But then you have these bozos with their hit-and-run comments accusing us of wanting to pacify the league when that is far from what anyone is suggesting.

Learn to read.

Either you deal with the fact that concussive blows happen and could be mishandled by everyone along the line resulting in more concussive blows happening or you take out what is causing the concussive blows. This whining about protocol and all that. Until they have a brain scan machine that can tell a concussion in game this is how it is gonna be.

 

[sandysan]

Did you know that there are enforcers out their who hated their role? Did you know that for some of these said enforcers, the only way for them to get to the NHL and to keep a job was to become enforcers? Do you know what the role of the enforcer entails? Did anyone back then know what CTE was? Nope. They started discovering CTE among professional athletes in the mid-2000s.

The NHL didn't have any concussion protocol in place until recently. Is an athlete going to know more than a doctor? You make it sound like there's a freedom of choice for a player like Peluso or Peat. If they don't do their jobs, they would be out of a job, and they were paid to fight and enforce. They didn't know anything of the long term hazards of their vocation. Back then, being concussed was "having your bell rung" and you'd just have to "shake off those cobwebs."

I also don't find the league largely at fault, the improvements and advancements in neurological studies has helped bring this topic to the forefront. I'm more concerned with the lack of support being shown by the league and the players' association in not helping these particular individuals.

But then you have these bozos with their hit-and-run comments accusing us of wanting to pacify the league when that is far from what anyone is suggesting.

Learn to read.

Do you know that there are lots of adults who hate their jobs but still get up every morning and do it ?

And I'm interested in the CTE angle since it still can only be diagnosed port moterm. so when you say they started discovering CTE among professional athletes in the mid 2000's you mean in their bodies. after they died. unless you have something you would like to share. perhaps its these " improvements in advancements in neurological studies" you could regale us with ? Novel imaging modalities ? new biomarkers ? Please, I'm raptured !

Peluso and Peat both knew that they would likely have to drop the golves and chose to do so, if they really really were more concerned about their long term health they could have done what derek dorsett did, retire early. No one forced these players to fight. If they didnt want to fight they didnt have to. no player in the NHL fights against their will ( well almost no player). and if their employer thought that they could get other players who would also not fight but do other parts of the job better, they could sign those players. And don't forget NHL contracts are guaranteed, you could fight then stop and never fight again and you get every cent that is owed to you. but if you are brought on to fulfill a specific role and then chose to not do it, you think the team is somehow obligated to keep you on anyways ?
And many of the enforcers did express anxiety when they new they would likely dance, they also often had great respect for the people they traded blows with because they knew, win lose or draw the other enforcer wouldnt take advantage of them. Every player worried about stick hacks and number runners for the exact opposite reason.

you are 100 percent right, at the time the doctors didnt know the difference between concussions and having your bell rung. You know who didnt as well ? Everyone else. But sure lets take information that we have available now that we didnt have then and use it to malign people for the crime of not being omniscient.

Players choose to fight or not to. No one gives a crap what you think they should do. You are free to drop em or velcro them to your hearts delight. the players in the nhl should be afforded the same opportunity even if they,. god forbid, chose a path that you would not. because they are adults, they understand the risk and fight of their own free will.

some of the cement heads even go on to be GM's, members of DOPS or in the case of stu grimson, a lawyer.

love the learn to read ending ! well done. so forceful !

 

[deletethis]

There's a concerted slow march to destroy pro sports like hockey and football by a certain element who don't like masculine pro sports. This NY Times writer is an activist writer obsessed with this topic having already written a book about Derek Boogaard.

 

[tny760]

man, it's rough to read that and i don't really doubt that concussions had a role in his decline but the father and author seem so quickly to just write off every last one of the bad things stephen did as being directly caused by the NHL while pretty softly glossing over a multitude of drug problems that quite frankly, may or may not have anything to do with his concussions

tough to form an opinion on. personally i start to question whether some of these guys were addicts while they were playing and just went off the deep end once they didn't have team responsibilities.. i guess i just don't think it's necessarily right to, at this stage of our CTE/concussion studies, freely write him off as being a victim of the NHL.

 

[thegongshow]

It's clear many posters have never even followed the whole CTE issue at all.

1.) Fighting has very little to do with CTE and is probably not the primary cause alone for CTE developing in players. Some of the worst CTE cases ever found exists in football players and rugby players who don't even fight.

2.) Concussions are NOT the best way to predict CTE. They've found CTE in players who've played contact sports yet who've never had a single diagnosed concussion. One example of CTE was found in a football player as young as in high-school who was never diagnosed with a concussion (and never even played a higher level with bigger players than what's in high school level football).

3.) The best theory we have right now is that SUB-concussive forces are the primary driver for CTE. Just shaking the brain around a little bit, yet repeatedly, is believed to be what is the major cause of CTE. Those types of forces occur very frequently and almost on every play in hockey and football. What's causing CTE, as most experts suspect, are blows/forces/sudden stops to the body/head that would be tantamount to getting not hit with a knockout haymaker, but more about forces on the brain along the lines of constant jabs to the head in boxing. That happens whenever someone falls to the ice, hits the boards, gets hit with a body/hip check. It's just the way physics works.

Little kids play hockey all throughout growing up and in grade school/high school. Even if they never get knocked out in a fight or get destroyed with a concussion from a body check, they're still getting hit in practice, falling on the ice, running into the boards, etc. multiple times per week for literally a decade or more before they reach college and pro-level hockey. It's like sending in a young child to go into a boxing match and get hit in the head constantly for years on end, but unlike boxing, there's no recovery period with months off at a time. Practices and games are all winter long and potentially all year round.

Again, it is believed that concussive hits/blows are NOT the primary driver of CTE. It's the subconcussive forces. And that's what the big problem is for the NFL and NHL. It's only a matter of time before hitting will be completely removed from hockey. Hockey can survive, but the NFL would be decimated since a lineman has to block every play, but how would you play football if no tacking and blocking were allowed?

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[DJJones]

Frankly it seems amazing to me how at any point people were oblivious to the dangers of head trauma. Everyone knew about punch drunk boxers. This wasn't some new thing people hadn't dealt with before. My dad played competitive hockey in the 70s and nothing that has came out in the last 15 years was news to him.

It's like when people act like ptsd is a new thing. They've been writing about ptsd for two thousand years. It's always been known about

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[canuckster19]

I had an idea recently, I think you should only be allowed to hit players if you're skating in the same direction at similar speed. No more roaring in for a body check, honestly what does that do other than hurt your opponent? I don't see the sport in it, just people who want blood.

 

[sandysan]

I had an idea recently, I think you should only be allowed to hit players if you're skating in the same direction at similar speed. No more roaring in for a body check, honestly what does that do other than hurt your opponent? I don't see the sport in it, just people who want blood.

How would that work for defenseman? I'm sitting there lying in the weeds as you skate towards me with the puck and your head down I'm supposed to close the gap, LET YOU pass me then cycle behind you to chase you in order to hit you?

Yeah that's not going to work and as unpalatable as it is, going no checking like the ladies would be preferable.

It you want to make it icedancing with a puck, go all in.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I think whether it takes 5 years or 20 years, unless medical technology progresses to the point that we can reverse the negative effects of concussions, the NHL will eventually transition to a no hitting game.

Will never happen.

The only team sports that could ever be wiped out (because taking contact out of hockey would likely kill it) because of CTE problems are American football and rugby.

Personally I think if the NFL doesnt change up hitting now, nobody’s kids in 50 years will touch a football. But the NHL has done a decent job with the hitting - think about where hits were ten years ago to now. The NFL hasnt changed one bit whereas the NHL has drastically.

 

[vandymeer13]

The issue here is precedent. As grim as it sounds, if the NHL/NHLPA covered medical bills of players playing in few NHL games, they'd be bankrupt.

The sad nature is the NHL mentality in the 80s and 90s is what caused this. The emphasis on the big, bad NHL and enforcers who took repeated head trauma but were essentially brainwashed into returning to portray this image of toughness and masculinity.

Let's just hope with the change in the game/rulebook, the phasing out of this mentality (and enforcers), and less of an emphasis on fighting, that there will be less cases like this.

I disagree they just need team doctors to be held accountable and make sure players don't come back to early if they are concussed. Bring enforcers back, the game was way more entertaining and let them handle the game the way they see fit. In the last 10 years players get away with more stick work and checking from behind then ever. Hopefully medicine catches up and finds ways to heal the brain faster from head trauma. The last article I saw was a pill that significantly reduces the effects of con concussions but it won't be out until around 2023 at the earliest they reported.

 

[vandymeer13]

Will never happen.

The only team sports that could ever be wiped out (because taking contact out of hockey would likely kill it) because of CTE problems are American football and rugby.

Personally I think if the NFL doesnt change up hitting now, nobody’s kids in 50 years will touch a football. But the NHL has done a decent job with the hitting - think about where hits were ten years ago to now. The NFL hasnt changed one bit whereas the NHL has drastically.

Poor kids will always play it. Some will see it as there way out. Look at mixed martial arts and boxing. There will always be someone willing to put themselves in harms way for a pay day.

 

[vandymeer13]

get rid of fighting. every other major professional sports league in north america and virtually every other hockey league in the world bans fighting and does fine.

it won't end all concussions, but 10% are due to fighting. which is very disproportionate -- fights are pretty rare but account for a notable chunk of concussions. easy to get rid of without affecting the game.

it's pretty bush league that the nhl lets dudes just line up and engage in bare knuckle fist fighting. even symbolically, hard to take the league seriously when it comes to concussions when it allows fighting.

That would make the game even more unwatchable then it is now. How many people watch college hockey now a days? Maybe people in Minnesota and North Dakota but that's about it. The ufc is the fastest growing sport and it's all around fighting. The key is to make sure guys that get seriously hurt aren't going back to early before they recover. And you even state less then 10 percent of concussions come from fighting in the last 10 years.

 

[OVrocks]

I think whether it takes 5 years or 20 years, unless medical technology progresses to the point that we can reverse the negative effects of concussions, the NHL will eventually transition to a no hitting game.

And lose most the of the viewers. With no hitting you might as well watch women’s figure skating or Disney on ice instead.