NY Times Report on Concussions

[Soedy]

Tough read.

I am not a fan of "staged" fighting or enforcers (anymore). Too many side-effects. If there's a fight evolving from a dirty hit or after an intensive scrum at the goal - so be it. But we don't need enforcers anymore.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

It’s sad, but at the same time, he knew what he signed up for. Hard to feel bad.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

NY times, on their social justice warrior rant again. We get it, their agenda is to neuter the NHL. At this point just take hitting out of the game completely. And make the NFL, touch football while we’re at it.

There is no cause and effect here. Peat could’ve been violent, with or without playing hockey.

 

[SladeWilson23]

It’s sad, but at the same time, he knew what he signed up for. Hard to feel bad.

Actually he didn't considering how very little info on CTE was available while he was playing.

 

[SladeWilson23]

I understand what you are trying to say here, however it actually is pretty simple. I myself have a horrible brain injury called "Status Epilepticus" I'm 27 with no signs of epilepsy at all or any kind of brain damage when it came to memory or certain things. In March of this year was calling out of work which is unlike me and I worked from home and I slept for around 18 hours a day up until I finally one morning had 4 grand-mal seizures in my sleep. I never knew I had a brain injury until this happened this year, but all of my life I have had horrible depression, anger, and been mostly nihilistic about everything. No one knew why I was like this, no one knew why I wanted to sleep my life away. I had felt like this my entire life and I just thought it was normal for people to feel like this. My neurologist told me that its a miracle that I hadn't committed suicide because all of my emotions have been at a 12 all my life when they should have been at a 4 or 5 basically.

Anyways, sometime in my life when I was younger I had a concussion, which has damaged the left side of my brain over the years (getting worse as I probably have had seizures in my sleep all my life and no one knew about it or was hit in the head more times throughout my life) now every single seizure I have is a permanent concussion to my brain, the left side of my brain is very ****ed. I'm telling this and I don't tell people this to have anyone feel sorry for me or anything because **** that. Just to show that concussions absolutely can be the cause of depression, violent tendencies over you losing your social status.

I appreciate you sharing your story. I certainly do wish you the best.

With all that being said, I also am a firm believer of if you get paid a lot of money to play a sport and you know the risks going in, than you take that gamble and sometimes the gamble doesn't pay off. I'm not saying its good, but I think everyone who plays hockey knows that this is a very real possibility for their future as say Boxers. MMA, and American Football players do. Its a potential risk for a guaranteed reward of a nice paycheck and fame.

In any case, I wish the best for him and his family.

The thing is though, I don't think these guys did know the risks. We still know very little about CTE, and these guys chose the profession without the proper knowledge.

 

[brokenhole]

NY times, on their social justice warrior rant again. We get it, their agenda is to neuter the NHL. At this point just take hitting out of the game completely. And make the NFL, touch football while we’re at it.

There is no cause and effect here. Peat could’ve been violent, with or without playing hockey.

You should change your user name.

 

[iamjs]

I'm not gonna pretend to know where his dad coming from mentally and emotionally, but this quote isn't exactly accurate if he's writing in present tense.

Again, I am a normal person who loves hockey, but to see what the game has become, and the end result of the violence allowed on the ice.

The game has changed quite a bit since Stephen's last full NHL season in 2003-04. I found this one with minimal Google work, and this was even five years after Peat's last full NHL season.

 

[iamjs]

Actually he didn't considering how very little info on CTE was available while he was playing.

That's not entirely true: Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - Wikipedia

The study of CTE goes back as far as the 1920s, but started getting major exposure in the early 2000s with former Steelers' center Mike Webster.

 

[SladeWilson23]

That's not entirely true: Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - Wikipedia

The study of CTE goes back as far as the 1920s, but started getting major exposure in the early 2000s with former Steelers' center Mike Webster.

Yes, but we now have a lot more info on it now than we did 20 years ago. That was essentially the point I wanted to make.

 

[joe dirte]

No. It definitely is not. I thought the same for a while until I found out that only 8% of concussions in the NHL are a result of fighting. 8%!
I've reverted to the belief that the NHL should police itself. I think the threat of getting your ass kicked would be far more effective than the threat of missing a game and a few bucks if a guy delivers a head shot, cheap shot or even a clean hit on a star player.
I also believe the league should change rules around the body armor these guys wear now.
End rant

yes it is time. even if it's 8% there are a he'll of a lot if them that are focused on a small percentage of players. and those players are dying, committing suicide, etc, at an alarming pace.

to ignore the number of fighters that have broken down over the years is flat out ignorant.

i used to love the odd fight. wendel Clark nailing someone only to clean them up after. but I don't even miss what fighting in the NHL became.

 

[MisterNoItAll]

You should change your user name.

I tried taking Brokenhole.

 

[joe dirte]

You can't take fighting out of the game unless you take hitting out too.

No fighting will result in more big hits that make up the vast majority of severe concussions.

It's gotta be all or nothing.

you absolutely can.

Aussie rules football went through the same thing 20 years ago. they were faced with declining crowds, and decided to remove the fighting. for the first few years the attendance dropped like a rock. then the demographic changed from beer drinking young men to families. and attendance skyrocketed. it's way higher than it used to be.

take a look at the videos. they hit just as hard as the NHL. harder even. but there are a handful of fights a year, and they're usually one or two punches and done. they don't fight anymore.

 

[HasbeenHallzy]

One of the stars be protected should step up and help the guy. What's a few hundred thousand dollars to a guy like Jagr?

Anyways, I'll never forget my first ever NHL game: Washington at Toronto, March 9th 03'. I was only 10, but I'll never forget Peat fighting Belak and a fan getting up from the seat behind me and yelling "Take a seat Peat!"

Edit: Peat absolutely destroyed him.

 

[traffic cone]

I really don't understand the thought process on these stories. Player A wants to play in the NHL. Player A has to accept a job as an enforcer if he does. Player A consistently gets punched in the face. Player A wonders why they are in pain all the time.

You can pretty much substitute any pain here, because it's the brain it means the NHL should do something about it? Should boxing just quit letting people box? If somebody has chronic pain in their legs from playing tennis and it causes them drug addiction to stop the pain, should people stop playing tennis? I just don't understand. Choices are made and there aren't guns to anybody's head. Cops make a fraction of pay to put their life on the line but enforcers are paid 100's of thousands and it's a crying shame. Doesn't jive with me, sorry.

The bolded is the key here. Why is there a need to have this kind of job in the NHL in the 21st century? There isn't.

"But removing the instigator means less head inj..."

No.

 

[4thline]

@Prins Filip good post.

The article itself is extremely sad and scary, and the NHL's behaviour is disapointting/ disturbing if not unsurprising from a large corporation.

That being said I do think that this is an issue that is largely in the past. The current is properly dealing with the aftermath of the sins of the past and making sure that the players dealing with the repercussions have the help they need.

But the reality is that the combination of extreme CTE and mental issues of past enforcers goes so far beyond the simple concepts of fighting, concussions, and contact in hockey. Prins Filip brought up the identity/ self worth issues brought about by retirement. Others have discussed the lack of recovery period between fights relative to boxing. Then throw in the psychological issues inherent to the role of enforcer- the combo of the omnipresent doubt (from the age of 16-17 no less) that you don't belong, that you're not good enough to be a part of this fraternity, that you're a side show, that everyone thinks that, and that your whole identity is a lie. Then throw in the stress of knowing night after night that it's your job to "get in the ring" at risk of either giving or receiving great personal harm. It's a recipe to get pretty effed up before adding in the possible impacts of cumulative brain damage.

We have the concussion protocols in place, they need to be followed. Players need to start looking at early retirement if it seems like concussions are becoming an issue. But Steven's esque hits are on their way out/ completely gone. The career fighter is essentially gone from all levels. I think the left needs to be prepared to accept that as enough and that there's allowed to be some inherent risk in a human activity.

 

[Big fat dad]

Anyone who says he knew what he was signing up for is ridiculous. Guys enter the league so naive. If there was even a bit of research out there during the time he entered the league, as one poster claimed, do you think he read it? More players should know what they're signing up for. I'll give you that. But to say he definitely knew what he was signing up for? C'mon.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

NY times, on their social justice warrior rant again. We get it, their agenda is to neuter the NHL. At this point just take hitting out of the game completely. And make the NFL, touch football while we’re at it.

There is no cause and effect here. Peat could’ve been violent, with or without playing hockey.

[mod]

What agenda does the New York Times have that they are trying to accomplish? Why would they even care? Seems more like a cry for help from a very concerned father who is seeing the mental well-being of his son deteriorate.

I guess it is also a coincidence when the likes of Rypien and Boogaard and Belak all go through depression and commit suicide and all show the same patterns of behavior off the ice and all were found to have CTE. I guess Bob Probert, Marc Potvin and Barry Potomski, all enforcers during their playing careers, died young.

The cause and effect is that repeated blows to the head has long lasting effects and unfortunately, there is no help available to these suffering athletes.

So, what the f*** are you trying to dispute? That repeated head blows are fine?

 

[MisterNoItAll]

[mod]

What agenda does the New York Times have that they are trying to accomplish? Why would they even care? Seems more like a cry for help from a very concerned father who is seeing the mental well-being of his son deteriorate.

I guess it is also a coincidence when the likes of Rypien and Boogaard and Belak all go through depression and commit suicide and all show the same patterns of behavior off the ice and all were found to have CTE. I guess Bob Probert, Marc Potvin and Barry Potomski, all enforcers during their playing careers, died young.

The cause and effect is that repeated blows to the head has long lasting effects and unfortunately, there is no help available to these suffering athletes.

So, what the **** are you trying to dispute? That repeated head blows are fine?

You don’t need research to know that taking a punch to the head on a repeated basis is bad for you. It’s pure common sense. These guys were all willing participants. They did it because they would’ve never made the NHL otherwise. Nobody forced them. They could’ve done something else with their life, if they did not want to deal with the consequences of being an enforcer.

If it was up to you, players would all wear the size of helmets on your avatar of Conan.


You’re making a story out of nothing.

You don’t like physical sports? Don’t play them, don’t watch them, don’t support them. End of story.

I wonder why the NHL doesn't track these types of situations and step in immediately with assistance. Is there fear of accepting culpability or something?

They’re not responsible, so why would they.

get rid of fighting. every other major professional sports league in north america and virtually every other hockey league in the world bans fighting and does fine.

it won't end all concussions, but 10% are due to fighting. which is very disproportionate -- fights are pretty rare but account for a notable chunk of concussions. easy to get rid of without affecting the game.

it's pretty bush league that the nhl lets dudes just line up and engage in bare knuckle fist fighting. even symbolically, hard to take the league seriously when it comes to concussions when it allows fighting.

No. We don’t have to change the rules. You don’t like it? Then go watch all those other leagues and sports you mentioned. Might as well take fighting out of the UFC and Boxing too right? Oh wait...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You don’t need research to know that taking a punch to the head on a repeated basis is bad for you. It’s pure common sense. These guys were all willing participants. They did it because they would’ve never made the NHL otherwise. Nobody forced them. They could’ve done something else with their life, if they did not want to deal with the consequences of being an enforcer.

If it was up to you, players would all wear the size of helmets on your avatar of Conan.


You’re making a story out of nothing.

You don’t like physical sports? Don’t play them, don’t watch them, don’t support them. End of story.

We're not talking about taking physicality out of the sport. There is a concern about concussions though, and taking unprotected headshots and deliberate blows to the head that have proven to cut careers short. There is no disputing that.

[mod]

 

[MisterNoItAll]

We're not talking about taking physicality out of the sport. There is a concern about concussions though, and taking unprotected headshots and deliberate blows to the head that have proven to cut careers short. There is no disputing that.

[mod]

The league has done a very good job, the past few years. There's less headshots, and no more dedicated enforcers, staged fights, and fighting is down a lot.

[MOD]

 

[SladeWilson23]

You don’t need research to know that taking a punch to the head on a repeated basis is bad for you. It’s pure common sense. These guys were all willing participants. They did it because they would’ve never made the NHL otherwise. Nobody forced them. They could’ve done something else with their life, if they did not want to deal with the consequences of being an enforcer.

There's a difference between knowing something is bad, and knowing something is extremely dangerous. You're correct that everybody should know that getting hit in the head is bad, but nobody knew that it was as dangerous and life threatening as it was. Meaning, everybody thought that the effects of said head abuse was only temporary and not permanent. As it turns out, the brain is a lot more delicate than people realized, and this is not something that was known until the early 2000's.

 

[iamjs]

Yes, but we now have a lot more info on it now than we did 20 years ago. That was essentially the point I wanted to make.

Fair enough. Maybe because I had more of a front row seat for everything that happened with Webster, it was a little easier for me to reference.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There were also team execs and doctors, like in the case with Mike Peluso, who told him that he was fine and cleared him to continue playing, when he clearly was unfit to play. Reading his story is extremely depressing.

Mike Peluso, dealing with brain damage, blames Devils for not protecting him

On Dec. 18, 1993, he suffered a concussion during a fight in Quebec with Tony Twist of the Nordiques. Five days later, still feeling the effects, he fought Ken Baumgartrner of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

On Jan. 4, he fought Dean Chynoweth of the New York Islanders.
"When I got back from Quebec, I swear I didn't even know the names of half the guys on our team or how I got back," Peluso recalled. "They put me in a situation where I was defenseless and vulnerable, but I fought Baumgartner.

"Then I found myself in the lineup against a really tough Islanders team. I didn't even know how I got to the rink. I didn't know where I was or what I was doing."

During a Devils road trip to Tampa, Fla., in February of that season Peluso was riding a stationary bike at the team's hotel when he suffered a seizure and fell off. He trashed the workout room and had to be restrained by teammates.

"Me and Kenny Daneyko were working out and it happened," Peluso said. "I woke up in the hospital. When you have a grand mal you don't remember anything and you're emotional. Thank God Dano was there for me."

Peluso spent two days in a St. Petersburg hospital, although Lamoriello suggested the incident occurred because of dehydration and lack of nutrition rather than a concussion from the Twist fight.

Peluso never had time to recover. That season he had 20 fights, which was actually fewer than usual. In the three previous seasons he had 85 fights.

"It's how they threw me out onto the ice. I'd had a grand mal seizure and Dr. Fisher (team orthopedist Barry Fisher) handled the situation and said I was good to go," Peluso maintained. "I heard (trainer) Teddy Schuch say, 'I don't think he's ready,' but Teddy was overruled by Dr. Fisher.

"I should have seen a neurologist. When the doctor clears you, you think you're healthy. What is a team doctor for? I'm not a doctor. If you're a goal-scorer and you have a concussion, maybe for a couple of weeks you can stay out of traffic. For me, it was like being a gunslinger with no gun. That was my role."

Peluso is angry that Lamoriello allowed, and perhaps forced, him to play with concussions.
"I've had seven grand mal seizures and I have trouble finding the right words in conversations. I just wonder if Lou thinks that it's dehydration or nutrition now," Peluso said.

Asked if he has ever spoken to Lamoriello about this, Peluso said no.

"He would avoid it. He would just walk away from me. I know he would," Peluso said. "I feel used and beaten. I probably should never have played again after some of the concussions I had.

"My question for Lou is would he ever put either of his sons in that situation? I am a human being. It's tough even talking about it. This is not to get any ink. Hopefully one day I can have a discussion and get some answers and closure."

 

[Syckle78]

Honest question for those that are still a proponent of fighting.
How do you enjoy watching knowing the risk?

I can't enjoy it anymore and there was a time when it was one of the most exciting parts of the game for me. I started out on the bruise brother red wings watching Probert and Kocur beating the holy hell out of dudes. I loved it, couldn't get enough. But all the information that's come out in the last ten years has taken any enjoyment I had for it away.

 

[Number8]

His fight with PJ Stock is one of the craziest I’ve ever seen. I’m not surprised he’s got brain damage. What a tough read, though. Sad to see Peat and his family not getting any help.

Having a sense of what Peat is going through, I feel at odds with having cheered the fight he had with Stock. And I'm a guy who loved -- and if I'm honest still enjoys -- scraps on the ice.

I played football as a kid and defended my son's desire to play football if had wanted. My wife was against it, but we let him make his choice.

He chose soccer and I'm glad he did.

If he were 10 years old all over again, I'd strongly recommend he not play football.

I guess my point is that with all we now know about the dangers of concussions-- but still don't know about the exact causes and treatment -- points of view change as you get older.

I'd like the NHL to step in and help Peat.

For many many years fighting sold the game. NHL needs to help those who were warriors for the League.