NY Times Report on Concussions

[Number8]

seems like an egregious breach of a sick individual's privacy.

Sounds to me like a father desperate to find a way to help his son.

I'm not going to say if it is right or wrong -- I cannot judge.

I do know that I'd move heaven and earth to help my children. Mr. Peat sounds like a man who lives in fear that whatever he tries it will be too late.

Maybe I don't know enough, but I have empathy I know that.

 

[Number8]

NY times, on their social justice warrior rant again. We get it, their agenda is to neuter the NHL. At this point just take hitting out of the game completely. And make the NFL, touch football while we’re at it.

There is no cause and effect here. Peat could’ve been violent, with or without playing hockey.

Despite your username you cannot possibly know that.

 

[4thline]

Honest question for those that are still a proponent of fighting.
How do you enjoy watching knowing the risk?

I can't enjoy it anymore and there was a time when it was one of the most exciting parts of the game for me. I started out on the bruise brother red wings watching Probert and Kocur beating the holy hell out of dudes. I loved it, couldn't get enough. But all the information that's come out in the last ten years has taken any enjoyment I had for it away.

Because I don't believe that "fighting" as it exists now and should exist is a super added risk to playing contact hockey and blocking shots. All these chronic and catastrophic cases aren't from "fighting" in hockey, they're from the existence of the role of "career fighter" and of a limited number of individuals suffering massive cumulative physical and psychological harm from fighting again and again and again for years

 

[Syckle78]

Because I don't believe that "fighting" as it exists now and should exist is a super added risk to playing contact hockey and blocking shots. All these chronic and catastrophic cases aren't from "fighting" in hockey, they're from the existence of the role of "career fighter" and of a limited number of individuals suffering massive cumulative physical and psychological harm from fighting again and again and again for years

How many times a year take a puck to the head blocking a shot? It's ver,very minimal and even then it's obviously accidental and unavoidable when it happens. That isn't the same as fighting which could be easily eliminated. Repeated impact to the head is such as punches has shown to have long term traumatic impact, that's indisputable at this point. Hard hits and accidental pucks to the noggin are parts of the game. Repeatedly punching someone in the face isn't.

 

[cbjgirl]

If I read it correctly, dad is in Canada. How does it work with mental health issues in Canada? Could Peat be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility or would he need to do something either to himself or others before that could happen? It might take more than a threat of violence.

 

[4thline]

How many times a year take a puck to the head blocking a shot? It's ver,very minimal and even then it's obviously accidental and unavoidable when it happens. That isn't the same as fighting which could be easily eliminated. Repeated impact to the head is such as punches has shown to have long term traumatic impact, that's indisputable at this point. Hard hits and accidental pucks to the noggin are parts of the game. Repeatedly punching someone in the face isn't.

You didn't follow. We're talking about cumulative damage from a lifetime playing the sport. The odd fight against an untrained opponent on skates is a tiny piece of that pie compared the night in night out risk of big hits, puck to the face, and cumulative impact of smaller hits, jostling, battles etc. Without career fighters you negate the "repeated impact" element of the danger and it boils down to the risk of getting tagged.

It's the difference between having a few too many beers with a buddy a couple times a year and watching that same buddy go down the road of destructive alcoholism.

 

[stampedingviking]

if you don't like concussions, brain damage, mental health issues, suicidal impulses, and the ruination of families writ large, maybe you should watch figure skating instead

I really, really hope that post is supposed to be sarcastic, if not? Wow!

 

[Linda Bacon]

Time to get rid of fighting, simple as that. We have the UFC for our fighting fix.

 

[Statto]

I'll take a shot at it. I think if the PA were to get involved, it would put them in an awkward position every time they defend the current status quo. A status quo in which they are always defending some of the worst cheap shots committed by some of the most talentless players in the league. Although enforcers are slowly being phased out, the PA wants no part of agreeing that a handful of guys should lose their job even if it's in the players' own interest/safety. In the big picture, it's all about protecting a handful of jobs even at the expense of the safety of the players.

What they could do though is fight for those players in the next CBA. Maybe that’s more important than making sure the top players can earn an extra few hundred thousand per year.

 

[Leaf of the Mind]

Some of the reactions to this remind me of the comedian Stewart Lee's bit "...there's an entire generation who seems to have confused political correctness with health and safety legislation."
It's no different than someone owning a building not up to code, the owner knows it but keeps putting it off, he doesn't want to risk losing tenants or income, but eventually someone is injured and the courts get involved.

The thing that made concussions a bigger deal were the cover ups by various sports leagues. Doctors who should have known better who sent them out there again, league-commisioned studies which were later suppressed, or others which were released without sound methodology. The players also had some blame too, but the very qualities that made them pros like toughness, drive and being team players also made them more likely to ignore signs from their own body that something was wrong. Had there been more up-front cooperation and education about this everyone would have moved on from it already.

It's time for all parties involved to just be truthful about the risks. It's not enough to back it up with common sense but hard scientific data. The existence of improved conditions for say, loggers or fishermen or miners hasn't eliminated those jobs, or their dangers altogether. It'll be the same for sports. People who cry about the death of contact sports are being overly dramatic.

 

[bunjay]

Major car manufacturers once said that putting seatbelts in cars would cost too much for the benefits. Similar idea for modern crumple zones and car frames that don't cut you in half if you hit something head-on. Maybe that's not the best analogy because we still drive, and we still drive fast. Maybe a better analogy would be the future of self-driving cars that make accidents extremely rare while reducing travel times.

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, brain damage in sports. The truth is that even minor knocks - repeated hundreds of times - can cause long term brain damage. So it's not even about concussions, or getting knocked out in a fight, it's about overall risk. And if you think the people reporting on our increasing understanding of this risk are just 'social justice warriors' trying to ruin sports, I don't know what to say. When did 'social justice' become a pejorative term? Every parent should know the risks before they encourage their kid to aim for high-level sports. And we should seriously consider at what age a person can decide for themself that they want to take that risk.

 

[beowulf]

CBC article of Peat's story

'He's just a very different person': Dad of ex-NHL player Stephen Peat says his son is homeless and could die

 

[DJJones]

I don't really get what people want the NHL to do. Pay for him to live in assisted care probably against his own will for the rest of his life? Pay for every player that gets addicted to drugs or is mentally ill for the rest of their lives? 90% of people in jail have some underlying cause of why they got addicted or got violent. Most people still want to throw them in jail. This isn't a hockey problem, it's our criminal system.

Best course of action would be for the NHLPA to pay for life long disability insurance and pensions for all players. Just allow them to require a doctors examination before any contracts are signed. If there are any concerns, that player is not allowed to play in the NHL. If they are a star player they can pay for their own health insurance and be exempt from the unions coverage. Weed out the people with problems before they ever even play a game in the NHL and any current players that get concussions give them the choice to retire or pay for their own insurance.

That simple of rules would eliminate enforcers and the union would go insanely tough on shots to the head.

 

[sandysan]

How many times a year take a puck to the head blocking a shot? It's ver,very minimal and even then it's obviously accidental and unavoidable when it happens. That isn't the same as fighting which could be easily eliminated. Repeated impact to the head is such as punches has shown to have long term traumatic impact, that's indisputable at this point. Hard hits and accidental pucks to the noggin are parts of the game. Repeatedly punching someone in the face isn't.

in the nhl, since when ? The professional game without fighting has never existed and in a competition as to the relative merits or liabilities of fighting, I'll take the side with skin in the game ( the players, OVERWHELMINGLY) as opposed to doing something to appeal to your sense of aesthetics.

plos one puts fights third or fourth. Saying that hitting is " part of the game" because you like it ( and its been around as long as fighting and has caused MUCH more damage) but fighting ( around as long as hittinf) isnt part of the game because you dont like it, is an appeal to your sensibilities. If you dont like fights, turn your head. you can have hockey without hitting, the women do exactly that. You want to advoacate for this instead of this disingenuous concern for " player safety" then go ahead. I am sure there are tons of people who would also like to see hitting taken out of the game. None of them are hockey fans, but tons none the less.

 

[Syckle78]

Uh no no it isn't. Fighting happens during a stoppage of play and results in a penalty. It's not an actual part of the game where as hitting is used to get the puck,keep the puck,stop a forward from attacking the net etc during actual playing time. Fighting is like a neat side quest in a video game. It might be entertaining but it doesn't actually do anything within the actual game.

 

[sandysan]

Uh no no it isn't. Fighting happens during a stoppage of play and results in a penalty. It's not an actual part of the game where as hitting is used to get the puck,keep the puck,stop a forward from attacking the net etc during actual playing time. Fighting is like a neat side quest in a video game. It might be entertaining but it doesn't actually do anything within the actual game.

so penalties and pucks going over the boards are also not part of the game ? fighting CAUSES the stoppage in most cases, just like minor penalties. That's a strange way to decide what is and what isnt, and to be frank its not much better than " because I don't like it".

you know what IS better than I don't like it ? A historical record that goes uninterrupted for more than a centry that tacitly approves of the players being able to self police.

and as to whether it does anything, we have your word against the overwhelming percentage of players, coaches, GM's past and present who say different. You can say that this is an appeal to authority, sure. but since the authority is the only one to suffer the consequences or reap the benefits, their opinion carries a ton more than personal enjoyment maximization.

and it STILL doent address your illogical support for a practice that causes FAR more injuries because it is " part of the game" while decrying a part that has existed for as long that you decree is " not part of the game".

99% of fights in the NHL are consentual. How many players consent to getting run in the numbers ?

 

[CanCHI]

I think it is finally time to ban fighting and checking.

Think of the creativity.

 

[sandysan]

I think it is finally time to ban fighting and checking.

Think of the creativity.

i agree and conan obrien sized helmets and bubble wrap, lots and lots of bubble wrap !

 

[CanCHI]

i agree and conan obrien sized helmets and bubble wrap, lots and lots of bubble wrap !

Yup. Average height 5'6

 

[Sigh]

If I read it correctly, dad is in Canada. How does it work with mental health issues in Canada? Could Peat be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility or would he need to do something either to himself or others before that could happen? It might take more than a threat of violence.

Canada's mental health care is a joke, sadly.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think it is finally time to ban fighting and checking.

Think of the creativity.

i agree and conan obrien sized helmets and bubble wrap, lots and lots of bubble wrap !

A sign that the failed education system and the societal problem of having grade school level reading comprehension has left these two poor souls behind.

The sticking point that has been debated is the care of the athletes and the reckless attitude displayed by certain organizations, team executives, and team doctors who clearly ignored the warning signs and knowingly sent out an injured and concussed athlete to take further blows to the head and suffer longer term effects as a result.

If these plebeians made any effort to read, they'd realize that none of us have discussed banning the physical aspects of the sport. It's just a stupid conclusion they jump to due to their lack of understanding and comprehension.

I'm sorry that the education system has failed the both of you.

 

[CanCHI]

A sign that the failed education system and the societal problem of having grade school level reading comprehension has left these two poor souls behind.

The sticking point that has been debated is the care of the athletes and the reckless attitude displayed by certain organizations, team executives, and team doctors who clearly ignored the warning signs and knowingly sent out an injured and concussed athlete to take further blows to the head and suffer longer term effects as a result.

If these plebeians made any effort to read, they'd realize that none of us have discussed banning the physical aspects of the sport. It's just a stupid conclusion they jump to due to their lack of understanding and comprehension.

I'm sorry that the education system has failed the both of you.

Nope. The easy way to solve this problem? Ban fighting and checking. You would see concussions DRASTICALLY reduced so the culture of putting a player back on etc etc would slowly disappear.

 

[sandysan]

A sign that the failed education system and the societal problem of having grade school level reading comprehension has left these two poor souls behind.

The sticking point that has been debated is the care of the athletes and the reckless attitude displayed by certain organizations, team executives, and team doctors who clearly ignored the warning signs and knowingly sent out an injured and concussed athlete to take further blows to the head and suffer longer term effects as a result.

If these plebeians made any effort to read, they'd realize that none of us have discussed banning the physical aspects of the sport. It's just a stupid conclusion they jump to due to their lack of understanding and comprehension.

I'm sorry that the education system has failed the both of you.

and those players were forced to fight, against their wishes for fear that had they not dropped the gloves, their employers would have beat them with stick or worse.

adults get to make decisions for themselves even when they make decisions that I would not. this is part of being an adult. so your position has now been reduced to the argument that players were unaware that trading bare fist blows would be associated with some health risk, OR that the teams were omniscient and could simply devine the potential consequences long before the scientific community ever could and then actively withheld this information, that the scientific community was unaware of much less had reached a consensus on.

but sure, arguing that people who have a different opinion than you are defacto ignorant, is a fine fine rhetorical approach. If you want to act like someone's mother, give birth. speaking for myself, the position is filled.

Why are you against free will ? is it because you have convinced yourself that you know what's best for everyone ? How's that working out, precisely ? And I'm just curious, the evidence for boxers experiercing pugilistic demetia has been around for a long time ? why don't you jump on another high horse and join the crusade of saving boxers from themselves as well ?

 

[kingsholygrail]

It's almost like contact sports are dangerous. Who would have thought? I know I got my bell rung a couple times when I played football in high school. Decided that wasn't for me. lol Fighting is an easy one for people to hang their hat on as far as blaming CTE, but if we're honest with ourselves, checking is the major cause of it in players and that's not so easy to talk about removing if you're serious about preventing it.

Keep in mind, better helmets don't really help with concussions unless they can some how keep your brain from rattling around in your skull. They're just better at protecting your skull from busting.

 

[HTFN]

Nope. The easy way to solve this problem? Ban fighting and checking. You would see concussions DRASTICALLY reduced so the culture of putting a player back on etc etc would slowly disappear.

No, that's the slippery slope you can take to avoid accountability, but it's not the easy way or the "right" answer.