Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
In a vacuum, I understand that argument but he was drafted in 2016 and has progressed mightily since. Also he produced at a 1-2 round draft pick rate in the University he played in.
Confirmed with Link: [NSH/NJ] Subban (No salary retention) for Santini, Davies, 2019 2nd, 2020 2nd
- Thread starter TitansVolsPreds615
- Start date
BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
I'm looking back at this trade and it might be the best trade Poile has made in his career. This may go down along with the Langway trade. Let's break it down:
* Davies- He is the LHD of the future and when rosters expand, I expect him to be playing. I want to see him play before Hamhuis, right now.
* 2nd rd pick #1- Egor Afanasyev, the guy the Preds just signed. He's been touted as the steal of the draft. Early but still. The Preds pipeline was drying up and needed the boost with this pick.
* 2nd rd pick #2- (who knows), You know how HF members say 'It's a high 2nd, it's practically a 1st!' and there is a backlash of no it isn't. This year may be a year where that maybe true. NJ is hovering in the bottom 5, experts are drooling about the talent this year, and early projection have defensemen around the Preds 1st and NJ's 2nd. With a 2nd this high and a talent pool this deep, this is also a phenomenal trade chip.
* Santini- His contract is less than Subban's and shorter. Worst case: he's gone as trade fodder. Best case: He's 22. let him stew in Milwaukee and get development. If can be a 3rd pairing guy, great. His cap is YWeber + Irwin. I can live with that. His cap is 1.4 million. That is nothing. That's Watson $.
* Cap space for Duchene- Does anybody have complaints about this? You sir? You do? Please stand up. *bitch slap across the face!* Sit the f*** down!
All in all, great deal.
* Davies- He is the LHD of the future and when rosters expand, I expect him to be playing. I want to see him play before Hamhuis, right now.
* 2nd rd pick #1- Egor Afanasyev, the guy the Preds just signed. He's been touted as the steal of the draft. Early but still. The Preds pipeline was drying up and needed the boost with this pick.
* 2nd rd pick #2- (who knows), You know how HF members say 'It's a high 2nd, it's practically a 1st!' and there is a backlash of no it isn't. This year may be a year where that maybe true. NJ is hovering in the bottom 5, experts are drooling about the talent this year, and early projection have defensemen around the Preds 1st and NJ's 2nd. With a 2nd this high and a talent pool this deep, this is also a phenomenal trade chip.
* Santini- His contract is less than Subban's and shorter. Worst case: he's gone as trade fodder. Best case: He's 22. let him stew in Milwaukee and get development. If can be a 3rd pairing guy, great. His cap is YWeber + Irwin. I can live with that. His cap is 1.4 million. That is nothing. That's Watson $.
* Cap space for Duchene- Does anybody have complaints about this? You sir? You do? Please stand up. *bitch slap across the face!* Sit the f*** down!
All in all, great deal.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Yeah it's a pretty dumb stance, if 7th rounders can't progress then why even have a 7th round?
Honestly, beyond the first 2.5-3 rounds, it's about all the same anyway. I don't see much difference between a 7th and a late 3rd round pick. At that point it's about scouting and development because all of those players have serious holes in their game. There are also so many eligible players to scout each season that it's impossible for a team to know all of them, so a handful of legit gems slip through each year that nobody else had on their radar. Isak Walther wasn't even in the NHL's system, the Preds take him in the 6th and he looks as good or better than our 1st round picks in rookie camp. Datsyuk was only scouted by the Wings.
So yeah, draft position is relevant for about a week, and then it's all about how that prospect works and progresses over the next 4-5+ years.
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,926
- 11,328
I dunno... I mean you could hold out for a final report card on this season that shows what... our D collapsed and we lost out purely because we were too thin on D? I guess that would be the rationale that overturns the early excitement a few early high-scoring games generated. But I think it also hinges a lot on just how Subban plays this season... and I'm not sure the early returns suggest that he has snapped back to his prior form yet? If our D sucks, and yet Subban still also sucks... I'm not sure the argument will hold that our season was torpedoed by lacking D?
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
- 5,396
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I think the exercise of evaluating a trade after eight games is pretty pointless.
The early returns are promising, but too early to truly judge and definitely waaaay too early to say better than Erat for Forsberg.
I dunno... I mean you could hold out for a final report card on this season that shows what... our D collapsed and we lost out purely because we were too thin on D? I guess that would be the rationale that overturns the early excitement a few early high-scoring games generated. But I think it also hinges a lot on just how Subban plays this season... and I'm not sure the early returns suggest that he has snapped back to his prior form yet? If our D sucks, and yet Subban still also sucks... I'm not sure the argument will hold that our season was torpedoed by lacking D?
I think waiting to see how the season ends up or at least until midway is reasonable. I'm just glad Subban is gone so that debate is over. Waiting to find out who the next one is now that both Turris and Ellis aren't obvious.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
You are going to have a hard time finding a better trade than Erat for Forsberg.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
But getting him is only because you sucked so bad before that and lucked into the pick.
And the Malkin pick
And the Fleury pick
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Still doesn't mean it's not franchise changing on a level greater than someone like Forsberg.
Contextually those two processes are completely different though. I'm not saying the trade for Forsberg is franchise changing but the discussion is about trades not sucking so bad you get three #1 picks in a row.
What is a franchise changing trade? Big Joe to San Jose was franchise changing for the Bruins.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Getting Forsberg was definitely a huge win for the franchise and "franchise changing" to a degree, but in a way I would say Jones for Johansen was even bigger.
No, Johansen isn't a better player than Forsberg (IMO) but he filled the biggest need that the team has had since inception. So, I say franchise changing in the sense that Johansen is something we never had and keeping Jones would have just meant our insanely deep blueline was still an insanely deep blueline.
I hope that makes a little bit of sense.
No, Johansen isn't a better player than Forsberg (IMO) but he filled the biggest need that the team has had since inception. So, I say franchise changing in the sense that Johansen is something we never had and keeping Jones would have just meant our insanely deep blueline was still an insanely deep blueline.
I hope that makes a little bit of sense.
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
Erat (who did little post trade, 61 pts across three plus seasons) for a blue chip prospect named Forsberg. Legwand (52pts across two plus seasons) for Jarnkrok. Jones for Johansen. Subban (3pts thru 8 games .... compare to 2 pts in 9 games for Fabbro) for the cap space and prospects that permitted signing Duchene. All major deals in their own right at the time.
Subban for Weber belongs on this list imo. I don't believe the team would have reached certain milestones if that move had not been made.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
My point is is that Forsberg was not a franchise changing trade. The team didn't immediately get better when that trade was made. That's not to say he isn't a good player, but that's what it was was adding a good player.
I'd say Jones for Joey had more impact.
I wish I had a way to see into the alternate universe where we were able to draft Barkov as was the general consensus at the time.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Yeah, almost every mock draft had Barkov to us at 4th... i'm just glad we didn't get Drouin!
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
Actually the 2nd round pick from NJ was traded for 2 picks and used on Afanasyev and Alexander Campbell so now Campbell should be counted as an asset acquired for Subban. That being said this was a terrible trade. PK in addition to being a great player, brought the star power that the franchise was lacking
Do people really care about star power? What good does that do for the team?
His star power helped us become more of a mainstream team, but now that we have an expanded base I don't think we need "star power." Plus, I think Duchene picks up the slack on that front.
