Confirmed Signing with Link: [NSH] Kyle Turris extends with Nashville (6 years, $6M AAV)

[swiftwin]

Maybe he just didn't have any faith in Melnyk to build enough of a support cast to be competitive over the next few years of his career, given the impending Karlsson contract? I don't know that that is the case, but it wouldn't be terribly far-fetched, given the relatively tight purse-strings he's operated with before. We tend to forget that hockey players are still human beings and have thoughts and feelings of their own, despite how well they may be treated or paid. Assuming that they are all motivated by the same things is rather naive.

I think it's the other way around. Ottawa didn't have enough faith in Turris being their #1C. Ottawa is building a supportive cast for Karlsson, and Turris was moved in order to accomplish that.

 

[NyQuil]

I think it's the other way around. Ottawa didn't have enough faith in Turris being their #1C. Ottawa is building a supportive cast for Karlsson, and Turris was moved in order to accomplish that.

Not until he was 36 years old anyway.

 

[Starat327]

I think it's the other way around. Ottawa didn't have enough faith in Turris being their #1C. Ottawa is building a supportive cast for Karlsson, and Turris was moved in order to accomplish that.

Also entirely possible. There multiple factors at play here. I'm just speaking to the insinuation that money was the only driving factor, implying that athletes are just robots and only care about how much they are paid.

 

[Moose Head]

What made it 100% off the table in Ottawa, then agreed to in 30 minutes with Nashville? Seems curious

I'm guessing the hold up on the trade was the contract negotiations between the Preds and Turris. I don't think it was a 30min negotiation. Remember when the trade apparantly collapsed. That was probably due to the contract negotiations.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I'm guessing the hold up on the trade was the contract negotiations between the Preds and Turris. I don't think it was a 30min negotiation. Remember when the trade apparantly collapsed. That was probably due to the contract negotiations.

Supposedly they never even discussed contracts with Turris when the first deal fell apart. Something happened before that per all the twitter garbage I've been reading instead of working. There must have been a sticking point from the Preds perspective, and possibly things were slightly altered to fit request from either side.

 

[NSH615]

I'm guessing the hold up on the trade was the contract negotiations between the Preds and Turris. I don't think it was a 30min negotiation. Remember when the trade apparantly collapsed. That was probably due to the contract negotiations.

supposedly Poile had a 3 hour conversation with Turris and his agent yesterday right before the trade.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

They’re gonna be able to pay Karlsson because they didn’t pay Turris

But aren't Karlsson and Duchene FA the same year?

 

[topshelf15]

But aren't Karlsson and Duchene FA the same year?

Yep,but we know one for sure will be resigned......If Matt is the number 1 center that we have been looking for maybe both

 

[Prins Filip]

For 19 years we never saw any major free agents signing in Nashville and most of our own FAs left or wanted to leave. "Who would want to play in Nashville?" is what HFboards smugly told us.

Then we make it to the finals. FAs from other franchises that were sought by many other teams end up somehow signing here. "Less taxes. Who would not want to play there. Money is everything for these guys." Is what HFboards now repeat in unison.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Really great move by Nashville.

I agree. He will fit in very well with that team. Now that his value has been set I wonder what the leafs are going to do concerning the JVR situation?

 

[WaW]

Yeah it's just been so incredibly easy for Nashville this entire time. It has nothing to do with the team being one of the best-run teams in the league over the past ten years. /sarcasm

I find it funmy how you seem to think I was sh*tting on Nashville. When you get older things will become clearer for you.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

For 19 years we never saw any major free agents signing in Nashville and most of our own FAs left or wanted to leave. "Who would want to play in Nashville?" is what HFboards smugly told us.

Then we make it to the finals. FAs from other franchises that were sought by many other teams end up somehow signing here. "Less taxes. Who would not want to play there. Money is everything for these guys." Is what HFboards now repeat in unison.

It's hilarious. I remember how depressing it was being on so many "No Trade" lists for UFAs and trade deadline players. Now apparently we have some massive advantage.

 

[ThirdManIn]

I find it funmy how you seem to think I was sh*tting on Nashville. When you get older things will become clearer for you.

No, I didn't think that. You were complaining about it not being fair, and implying that tax situations in three different locations are the only reason why those teams are competitive. It was a ridiculous comment because it ignored everything else that went into making those teams competitive, most of which has nothing to do with the tax code and has everything to do with incredibly hard work behind the scenes. Nashville is my team, so they are the one I defended.

But hey thanks for the snark! It was pretty funny, all things considered.

 

[Siludin]

Ottawa officially got fleeced in this trade. I am sorry but Nashville and Colorado made them look like fools.

 

[Siludin]

I guess taxes in Nashville are nothing, so that probably makes the biggest difference to Turris.

 

[Armourboy]

It's hilarious. I remember how depressing it was being on so many "No Trade" lists for UFAs and trade deadline players. Now apparently we have some massive advantage.

Yeah it cracks me up. Even with this supposed tax advantage ( which considering the sales tax that is 10.75% in most cities in the area probably comes out to a wash) no one wanted to be here. Suddenly now it's the major reason players are willing to sign here.

What it amounts to is no one gave a damn when these teams weren't any good, now that they are it's suddenly an advantage. As others have said if you balance it out are you going to start trying to balance out property taxes, sales taxes, dog owners tax, housing costs being higher, the fact you can't buy a big gulp in New York? Where does it end?

Frankly it probably affects far less decisions than the discrepancy in owners wallets where you have those that can spend anything and those that are on a budget.

 

[playasRus]

No, I didn't think that. You were complaining about it not being fair, and implying that tax situations in three different locations are the only reason why those teams are competitive. It was a ridiculous comment because it ignored everything else that went into making those teams competitive, most of which has nothing to do with the tax code and has everything to do with incredibly hard work behind the scenes. Nashville is my team, so they are the one I defended.

But hey thanks for the snark! It was pretty funny, all things considered.

I think a lot of Ottawa fans are just using it as a coping mechanism as to why Turris just didn't sign 6x6 in Ottawa and was able to hash that out with Nashville in 3hrs of supposed conversation with Poile. His initial demands were apparently the same as what he asked from Ottawa. I think Bob Mackenzie put it well where basically neither party was really that interested in making a deal happen. Poile was however eager to lock up his 2C long term and basically have his SC contending roster together for basically 3 years (when Josi is up for new a contract).

Reality is, he also probably sees the attraction of being on a long term contender. His being in Ottawa just didn't have the same opportunity since we have money tied currently to Phaneuf that could be much better used for a top 2D.

And on a finer print, his agent probably also proposed he wouldn't be losing out on 6-12 million by signing for 6 years instead of 7-8 but would have some of it wash out by taxes/next contract.

Multiple factors played into this signing and the major ones probably were aggressive pursuit by Poile, lack of commitment by Dorion, and Nashville's current roster being a top 4 contender (imo). Then there's speculative points like city life, weather, media, taxes...etc. You'd have to think that city and weather weren't huge if he was willing to put up with it for another 7-8 years though.

 

[Armourboy]

I guess taxes in Nashville are nothing, so that probably makes the biggest difference to Turris.

There just isn't a state income tax, he still has to pay federal taxes as well as any taxes he would pay playing outside of Nashville, and a 10.75% sales tax on everything he buys in the city. If all they are looking at is the 6 million then yeah he is probably paying less, but probably if you add up every tax he will pay it probably ends up being a wash. Whether players and agents see it that way is a different matter entirely.

Frankly the contract comes down to this, they wanted 8, Poile said no and hard lined him at 6. He either was ok with that or wanted out of Ottawa for whatever reason and just took the 6. Poile offered what he was going to offer, the reason behind why Turris said yes is something only Turris knows as of now.

 

[NyQuil]

I keep reading Nashville fans talk about their 10.75% sales tax like it's a big thing.

Is it remarkable in the States or something?

-Calgary - 5%
-Edmonton - 5%
-Montreal - 14.975%
-Ottawa - 13%
-Toronto - 13%
-Vancouver - 12%
-Winnipeg - 13%

We also have provincial and federal income taxes.

It's not the only reason why Turris signed in Nashville but I can see why it might be a factor in why he would settle for fewer years.

 

[playasRus]

It's not the only reason why Turris signed in Nashville but I can see why it might be a factor in why he would settle for fewer years.

It's not like Turris had to be strong armed either though. He didn't consider Ottawa for 6 years because Dorion never offered it. He didn't table it himself because, well, Ottawa with Turris is what it is, a middle of the pack, playoff bubble on the inside (~15 to 10th placed across the league). Dorion overpaid a little for Duchene probably knowing this, and Duchene over Turris makes us more legitimate playoff contenders.

Now, if he's going to consider 6 years at all, Nashville isn't signing with a bottom dweller. This is a guaranteed playoff team for basically the span on the contract. And so the only downside of less years being money now becomes less significant also by your argument. Really absolutely NO reason to not take the contract. Unless he was BFFs with Stone. Or his wife loved Ottawa. So sentimental value, which it doesn't seem there is too much of in professional sports.

 

[triggrman]

man, why would a government need to have that much money? I'd be pissed if

I keep reading Nashville fans talk about their 10.75% sales tax like it's a big thing.

Is it remarkable in the States or something?

-Calgary - 5%
-Edmonton - 5%
-Montreal - 14.975%
-Ottawa - 13%
-Toronto - 13%
-Vancouver - 12%
-Winnipeg - 13%

We also have provincial and federal income taxes.

It's not the only reason why Turris signed in Nashville but I can see why it might be a factor in why he would settle for fewer years.

man, you guys need a smaller budget.... Local Government shouldn't need that much money.

 

[NyQuil]

It's not like Turris had to be strong armed either though. He didn't consider Ottawa for 6 years because Dorion never offered it. And if he's going to consider it at all, Nashville isn't signing with a bottom dweller. This is a guaranteed playoff team for basically the span on the contract. And so the only downside of less years being money now becomes less significant also by your argument. Really absolutely NO reason to not take the contract. Unless he was BFFs with Stone. Or his wife loved Ottawa. So sentimental value, which it doesn't seem there is too much of in professional sports.

Word coming out is that the reason the three-way deal fell apart originally was because Turris had to agree to an extension by Nashville before they would agree to it, and Sakic wouldn't trade Duchene to Ottawa without Girard coming back from the Predators for Turris.

So it's not as if the contract issue was suddenly resolved in 3 hours. Those 3 hours was the end point of a longer process.

 

[NyQuil]

man, why would a government need to have that much money? I'd be pissed if

man, you guys need a smaller budget.... Local Government shouldn't need that much money.

We don't have a local sales tax.

5% goes to the federal government and the rest goes to the provincial government (each province is different).

Alberta doesn't charge a provincial sales tax which is why their total sales tax is 5%.

So both our federal and (all but one) provincial governments collect both income and sales taxes.

Our local government (e.g. Ottawa City Hall) raises funds through municipal property taxes and service fees.

It's complicated by the fact that we have transfer payments from the federal government to the provincial government (e.g. for health care) and that both levels of government will help pay for municipal infrastructure and such.

When they originally set up our tax system, health care and education were very low cost so they are administered by the provinces. A hundred and fifty years later, they are now the big ticket items so the feds (with the highest tax revenue) have to negotiate payments to the provinces.

 

[playasRus]

man, why would a government need to have that much money? I'd be pissed if

man, you guys need a smaller budget.... Local Government shouldn't need that much money.

Universal health care

But also because the government and the 1% all evade taxes (re: Paradise paper leaks) so they need to get the money from somewhere.

 

[Siludin]

There just isn't a state income tax, he still has to pay federal taxes as well as any taxes he would pay playing outside of Nashville, and a 10.75% sales tax on everything he buys in the city. If all they are looking at is the 6 million then yeah he is probably paying less, but probably if you add up every tax he will pay it probably ends up being a wash. Whether players and agents see it that way is a different matter entirely.

Frankly the contract comes down to this, they wanted 8, Poile said no and hard lined him at 6. He either was ok with that or wanted out of Ottawa for whatever reason and just took the 6. Poile offered what he was going to offer, the reason behind why Turris said yes is something only Turris knows as of now.

The sales tax in Ontario is 13%. I can guarantee you that Canadian income tax rates dwarf the rates in the USA, and specifically Nashville. I did a quick search and we are talking about a 7% difference in income tax.

Overall the tax difference will work out to about 10%

Plus check out the property prices for a 3500 sqft home in Ottawa vs. Nashville.
Edit: it occurred to me that I had no idea where the arena was in Nashville so the difference might not be obvious