Speculation: Now what do we do? ‎- Part 2

[Todd1a]

Part I: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2082943

we had a very high scoring year actually in the nhl the top 30 players NOT top 30 centers lmfao at this statement 30th was 63 points for the year. Was 5 ppg players in the NHL genius seriously

I know you love stamkos but this is going way overboard brother 95 points in a 103 game season the year before is all i need to see to call a guy a number one center jeezus even crazy talk


ohhh yes he played with a broken hand his last four games so think he didnt score in those last four smdh

No Johnson is not a top line center like a toews or Crosby

Click to read more...

 

[Todd1a]

Hose who has lead the team in goals the last two seasons? Ya Stamkos has Johnson was garbage he had 14 goals I think his first 20 games he had like two goals.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Hose who has lead the team in goals the last two seasons? Ya Stamkos has Johnson was garbage he had 14 goals I think his first 20 games he had like two goals.

Why are you mentioning this like it's a good argument? Everyone knows Stamkos is a good goal scorer but that's it. Who led the team in scoring this year, not Stamkos. Who had the highest ppg the year prior, not Stamkos. Who led the team in playoff goals scored last year, not Stamkos. Stamkos is good at one thing but that one thing doesn't make Stamkos the better playerand the one we should go forward with.

 

[DFC]

Hose who has lead the team in goals the last two seasons? Ya Stamkos has Johnson was garbage he had 14 goals I think his first 20 games he had like two goals.

When he leads the team in playoffs scoring, you'll have a case. The entire problem is he seems to shift down when several other players shift up.

 

[Todd1a]

When he leads the team in playoffs scoring, you'll have a case. The entire problem is he seems to shift down when several other players shift up.

Shift up where are my cups kucherov? Johnson? We look like we will be like the Sharks and the Canucks right now! Thing that upsets me is we could lose Stamkos because of that dumb Callahan contract!

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Shift up where are my cups kucherov? Johnson? We look like we will be like the Sharks and the Canucks right now! Thing that upsets me is we could lose Stamkos because of that dumb Callahan contract!

is not one contract at fault is a large grouping of them. We havent lost stamkos. Its his choice does he want to stay and be part of a cup team? or a team that should compete for multiple cups moving forward? than he has to take a little less than market will not be a huge amount probably. Is teams like vancouver montreal maybe a few others who will or could make large moves. Does he want to go home to toronto? What ive heard for a long time since won the matthews race sure theyd like stamkos but are not looking to break the bank as at one point they were probably down for.

So we should be close enough within a million imho for him to stay over leaving. So its his final decision at that point.

Just like its gonna be similar decision by many others. Hopefully more stay than go.

At this point its up to each to make it work. Who will and will we blame the ones that move on? Its not the same as marty. We cannot or should say will not keep them all imho. Some will stay but some are going to go get paid more. Its salary cap hockey or sports. Hopefully he retires here and is not an easy decision.

I dont blame him one way or other just think he really has it made here so to sacrifice 5 to 8 million when making like 75 million? Well it would be easy decision for me actually lol. If I believed this gave me the best opportunity to win cups.

p.s. going into this year is very few believing pittsburgh would ever win another cup in syd's career again. Most thought the D would not work out for them. Well they added some pieces and it worked like a charm but if took odds was very low they could get through washington. I doubt they were heavily favored for ny or us either.

Cups are hard to get the magic have health etc.. So don't knock the season san jose had or the canucks had a couple years ago. Or even us st louis anaheim etc.. all had legit shots at cup this year.

 

[tjs*]

Playoff stats:

Stamkos: 937 minutes, 15 goals (10 at even strength, 2 game-winning), -3 +/-

Johnson: 867 minutes, 21 goals (18 at even strength, 7 game-winning), 14 +/-

 

[Todd1a]

is not one contract at fault is a large grouping of them. We havent lost stamkos. Its his choice does he want to stay and be part of a cup team? or a team that should compete for multiple cups moving forward? than he has to take a little less than market will not be a huge amount probably. Is teams like vancouver montreal maybe a few others who will or could make large moves. Does he want to go home to toronto? What ive heard for a long time since won the matthews race sure theyd like stamkos but are not looking to break the bank as at one point they were probably down for.

So we should be close enough within a million imho for him to stay over leaving. So its his final decision at that point.

Just like its gonna be similar decision by many others. Hopefully more stay than go.

At this point its up to each to make it work. Who will and will we blame the ones that move on? Its not the same as marty. We cannot or should say will not keep them all imho. Some will stay but some are going to go get paid more. Its salary cap hockey or sports. Hopefully he retires here and is not an easy decision.

I dont blame him one way or other just think he really has it made here so to sacrifice 5 to 8 million when making like 75 million? Well it would be easy decision for me actually lol. If I believed this gave me the best opportunity to win cups.

p.s. going into this year is very few believing pittsburgh would ever win another cup in syd's career again. Most thought the D would not work out for them. Well they added some pieces and it worked like a charm but if took odds was very low they could get through washington. I doubt they were heavily favored for ny or us either.

Cups are hard to get the magic have health etc.. So don't knock the season san jose had or the canucks had a couple years ago. Or even us st louis anaheim etc.. all had legit shots at cup this year.

Cups are pretty easy for the Blackhawks to get and the Kings. Our team starts to fall apart this year and you expect us to improve? It's pretty clear by now Stamkos is not willing to take a hometown discount because he would have signed a long time ago if so.

 

[Todd1a]

Playoff stats:

Stamkos: 937 minutes, 15 goals (10 at even strength, 2 game-winning), -3 +/-

Johnson: 867 minutes, 21 goals (18 at even strength, 7 game-winning), 14 +/-

That's great you do know you have to play 82 games to get to the playoffs? Pretty much we have copy cat the Rangers the last two years! So out round one next year ?

 

[HoseEmDown]

Shift up where are my cups kucherov? Johnson? We look like we will be like the Sharks and the Canucks right now! Thing that upsets me is we could lose Stamkos because of that dumb Callahan contract!

Where are my Cups, really? So it's a 22 year old 2nd round pick on his ELC who just led the team in scoring fault. It's a 25 year old undrafted player making 4mil less who led the team in scoring the year priors fault. Both players were the top 2 in scoring the past two postseasons fault but not the 1st overall pick making 7.5mil who disappears fault?

Stamkos has been in the league 8 years and the team has made the playoffs 4 times. Johnson has been in the league 4 years and they've made the playoffs 3 times. Kucherov in the league 3 years made the playoffs all 3. Sounds like if it weren't for Johnson or Kucherov Stamkos wouldn't be in the playoffs because he clearly isn't good enough to carry a team there.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Cups are pretty easy for the Blackhawks to get and the Kings. Our team starts to fall apart this year and you expect us to improve? It's pretty clear by now Stamkos is not willing to take a hometown discount because he would have signed a long time ago if so.

I think it's easy for those teams to win a cup as you say because their 1C actually plays like one in the playoffs. Toews and Kopitar up thier game to a higher level while Stamkos drops his to a sad one.

How exactly did we fall apart this year? We were 1 win away from going to the finals again with a banged up roster. I don't know where you come up with these crazy thoughts.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Cups are pretty easy for the Blackhawks to get and the Kings. Our team starts to fall apart this year and you expect us to improve? It's pretty clear by now Stamkos is not willing to take a hometown discount because he would have signed a long time ago if so.

than thats on stamkos todd.

right or wrong we will offer with tax break included around 10 million to stamkos....

so market seems to be saying he will get about 10.5 million even at 11 million 1 million more if he leaves which he might whose fault is that unless is stephen stamkos fault?

5 to 8 million difference? he either believes or he doesnt if he doesnt good bye.

I want players committed to this franchise 100% those are types that will accept the discount to make it happen.

Or would you rather he be like joe flacco? He had a shot to take a break keep his team basically in playoffs and hunts for super bowl he demanded the lions share of money now look at the ravens?

You really wonder what could have been.

If he wants the money that much GOOD RIDDENCE

P.S. this is not a stamkos thing to me the discount this is for all new contracts including my core. Take the discount make it work or hit the bricks thats for everyone kucherov hedman palat johnson drouin vasy all of it one at a time

It is what is needed for the greater good

 

[Todd1a]

than thats on stamkos todd.

right or wrong we will offer with tax break included around 10 million to stamkos....

so market seems to be saying he will get about 10.5 million even at 11 million 1 million more if he leaves which he might whose fault is that unless is stephen stamkos fault?

5 to 8 million difference? he either believes or he doesnt if he doesnt good bye.

I want players committed to this franchise 100% those are types that will accept the discount to make it happen.

Or would you rather he be like joe flacco? He had a shot to take a break keep his team basically in playoffs and hunts for super bowl he demanded the lions share of money now look at the ravens?

You really wonder what could have been.

If he wants the money that much GOOD RIDDENCE

P.S. this is not a stamkos thing to me the discount this is for all new contracts including my core. Take the discount make it work or hit the bricks thats for everyone kucherov hedman palat johnson drouin vasy all of it one at a time

It is what is needed for the greater good

it's Steven Stamkos and don't back off your word your the one that said time and time again Stamkos stays! Your watching too much redwings stuff today gordie Howe and yzerman. All players want there big money including kucherov, Johnson and palat not just Stamkos times have changed.

 

[tjs*]

That's great you do know you have to play 82 games to get to the playoffs? Pretty much we have copy cat the Rangers the last two years! So out round one next year ?

Why do you feel the need to be rude? Because you're incapable of backing up your position? Pathetic.

And learn to write - your posts look like they were written by a preschooler.

 

[Todd1a]

Why do you feel the need to be rude? Because you're incapable of backing up your position? Pathetic.

And learn to write - your posts look like they were written by a preschooler.

Backing up what position? What's pathetic? You come back with you write like a preschooler ? Really ? I said Ben bishop and Tyler Johnson have yet to make it a whole season being healthy yet! My facts are I think Tyler Johnson and Ben bishop are both always going to be injured every season! Due to Tyler Johnson is a smurf! And bishop is a giant with a injury just waiting to happen. The way Johnson plays is not soft like Marty St. Louis the guy will always get injured his body can't take it. Bishop has ended his season injured 3 years in a row! And yet you guys want to pay him a long term deal ? Then ditch and young upcoming goalie in vasy ? Wake up! With expansion coming you get we can only keep vasy or bishop correct ?

 

[Todd1a]

I think it's easy for those teams to win a cup as you say because their 1C actually plays like one in the playoffs. Toews and Kopitar up thier game to a higher level while Stamkos drops his to a sad one.

How exactly did we fall apart this year? We were 1 win away from going to the finals again with a banged up roster. I don't know where you come up with these crazy thoughts.

I mean now we are going to fall apart due to the salary cap with us losing guys now.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Backing up what position? What's pathetic? You come back with you write like a preschooler ? Really ? I said Ben bishop and Tyler Johnson have yet to make it a whole season being healthy yet! My facts are I think Tyler Johnson and Ben bishop are both always going to be injured every season! Due to Tyler Johnson is a smurf! And bishop is a giant with a injury just waiting to happen. The way Johnson plays is not soft like Marty St. Louis the guy will always get injured his body can't take it. Bishop has ended his season injured 3 years in a row! And yet you guys want to pay him a long term deal ? Then ditch and young upcoming goalie in vasy ? Wake up! With expansion coming you get we can only keep vasy or bishop correct ?

"My facts are I think" those aren't facts they're your opinion. I already debunked your Johnson can't stay healthy one.

I say a lot of outlandish things on here, there's nothing wrong with doing that. But you probably won't find anybody on here who doesn't come up with as many facts or statistics to back up my argument. You say a lot of things on here and a majority are crap and have no merit, just back up your responses once in awhile.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I mean now we are going to fall apart due to the salary cap with us losing guys now.

So will all other 29 teams, the salary cap isn't something we only have to deal with. We've also been a cap ceiling team for awhile and have had to trade or let players go before. We just need to sign the ones who contribute the most and are willing to take a reasonable offer. It's why we can't sign Stamkos because for what he contributes he doesn't want to make what that should pay and wants more. Bishop might price himself out too. Luckily we've drafted players who have the potential to ease the burden of those loses at a discounted price.

 

[tjs*]

Backing up what position? What's pathetic? You come back with you write like a preschooler ? Really ? I said Ben bishop and Tyler Johnson have yet to make it a whole season being healthy yet! My facts are I think Tyler Johnson and Ben bishop are both always going to be injured every season! Due to Tyler Johnson is a smurf! And bishop is a giant with a injury just waiting to happen. The way Johnson plays is not soft like Marty St. Louis the guy will always get injured his body can't take it. Bishop has ended his season injured 3 years in a row! And yet you guys want to pay him a long term deal ? Then ditch and young upcoming goalie in vasy ? Wake up! With expansion coming you get we can only keep vasy or bishop correct ?

There is so much wrong with this post that I hardly know where to begin. First of all expansion has nothing to do with us losing Bishop or Vasy, as Bishop is a UFA and Vasy will be protected. We could theoretically keep both if we could afford to do so. Second I have always been adamant about not trading Vasy under any circumstance so you're arguing against something I never said in the first place. Third this debate has been about whether or not to keep Stamkos over Johnson, and now that you've realized you can't defend your position on the matter you think you can distract us from that fact by shifting to a completely different argument - you're not fooling anybody. And finally "my facts are I think" perfectly sums up the quality (or lack thereof) of your argument: you can't support your position with either facts or logic and you erroneously believe that your opinion is self-validating.

In closing I'll add that given the sheer number of flat out factually incorrect things I've seen you post with regard to expansion, the cap, etc. you might want to refrain in the future from making smartass comments like "you do know you have to play 82 games to get to the playoffs?" It's one thing to come with an attitude when you actually know what you're talking about; to do so when you clearly don't simply makes you look foolish.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

it's Steven Stamkos and don't back off your word your the one that said time and time again Stamkos stays! Your watching too much redwings stuff today gordie Howe and yzerman. All players want there big money including kucherov, Johnson and palat not just Stamkos times have changed.

yep still say stamkos stays .. unenviable position. This is best chance for him to compete. If toronto was still balls to wall and wanting him at 12 million which i hear has passed it makes the decision harder. He is gonna get imho 11 million tops so teams that might pull that I think are not as sound as us moving forward so he should just stay. He might though think the grass is greener in a vancouver or montreal situation? Wouldnt shock me honestly. Do the teams I would fear him going to want him sure,,, can they make enough things happen to make it work? I feel NO absolutely not especially the red wings. Think they cant move datsyuk till after season starts. That whipes out the stiffest competition in my opinion.

I get players want money. Yet you got to draw a line in sand just like the wings did with hossa than lidstrom. You stick to that line and if people dont like it you let them move on and rebuild or whatever it takes. I think no matter what happens to any one guy the team will be fine will we have to change a bit maybe but it will work out well enough to get us to be like detroit always a threat and to me as a fan of the tampa bay lightning thats goooooood enough for me

Why do you feel the need to be rude? Because you're incapable of backing up your position? Pathetic.

And learn to write - your posts look like they were written by a preschooler.

todd really wants stamkos to retire here. I notice though you calling out a lot in main boards and on here if theres a differing opinion. Maybe look in mirror at times

Backing up what position? What's pathetic? You come back with you write like a preschooler ? Really ? I said Ben bishop and Tyler Johnson have yet to make it a whole season being healthy yet! My facts are I think Tyler Johnson and Ben bishop are both always going to be injured every season! Due to Tyler Johnson is a smurf! And bishop is a giant with a injury just waiting to happen. The way Johnson plays is not soft like Marty St. Louis the guy will always get injured his body can't take it. Bishop has ended his season injured 3 years in a row! And yet you guys want to pay him a long term deal ? Then ditch and young upcoming goalie in vasy ? Wake up! With expansion coming you get we can only keep vasy or bishop correct ?

i get the goalie dilemma maybe stevie finds a way around it but with the cap stretch id doubt it why im ok if we lose some guys now as long as we get back to top again over next few years and make some more runs.

I really have fun being a fan of the tampa bay lightning I am ok with them especially since stevie came hell i loved them when they sucked lol now its really easy to love them They have always entertained me even in the bad years

 

[tjs*]

I notice though you calling out a lot in main boards and on here if theres a differing opinion. Maybe look in mirror at times

I don't call people out for differing opinions. I call people out for giving me an attitude or for putting words in my mouth that I never said and then attacking me for it. As long as people keep the debate clean and honest then I don't care if they agree with me or not.

What I will do however is argue against someone's position using facts and logic, and put them on the spot to defend their beliefs using the same. This can make people uncomfortable as many these days aren't used to having their beliefs and opinions challenged and aren't capable of rationally and intelligently supporting them (hence the ridiculous calls for "safe spaces" where college kids won't be subjected to opposing viewpoints or have to confront the possibility that they might in fact be wrong.) And while I'll vigorously dismantle an opponent's flawed argument I am equally vigorous in questioning my own position, and I'll be the first to admit it when somebody makes a good point that I hadn't considered.

What often happens however is I will argue against someone's position, he'll resort to sardonicism and strawman attacks because he isn't capable of an intelligent reply, and then my response will be brutal.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I don't call people out for differing opinions. I call people out for giving me an attitude or for putting words in my mouth that I never said and then attacking me for it. As long as people keep the debate clean and honest then I don't care if they agree with me or not.

What I will do however is argue against someone's position using facts and logic, and put them on the spot to defend their beliefs using the same. This can make people uncomfortable as many these days aren't used to having their beliefs and opinions challenged and aren't capable of rationally and intelligently supporting them (hence the ridiculous calls for "safe spaces" where college kids won't be subjected to opposing viewpoints or have to confront the possibility that they might in fact be wrong.) And while I'll vigorously dismantle an opponent's flawed argument I am equally vigorous in questioning my own position, and I'll be the first to admit it when somebody makes a good point that I hadn't considered.

What often happens however is I will argue against someone's position, he'll resort to sardonicism and strawman attacks because he isn't capable of an intelligent reply, and then my response will be brutal.

i said it with a smile I am the least comprehensible person in this arena very frustrating but have a true medical condition that makes me have moments not with so much clarity. I am very happy when actually write a complete sentence correctly lol.

The funniest thing i do is mess up when write homomyns or homophones almost every time so shows how badly my disease affects me. It will be great when someone in lgbt community decides this is derogatory and asks to get changed from what they are now. More things to try to learn and keep in my head

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Johnson will be a top line center as long as he's paired with Kucherov. And before I read 86 make him look better, yes Kucherov's production without Johnson is a lot less spectacular too. Those 2 are money when together.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I don't see Yzerman offering more than 8.5 for Stamkos. With his injuries and decline in play he's only a risk going forward.

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

That's great you do know you have to play 82 games to get to the playoffs? Pretty much we have copy cat the Rangers the last two years! So out round one next year ?

Well, if you keep stamkos and lose Johnson, then yes, that is where we are heading...