Blue Jays Discussion: Non-waiver Trade Deadline (August 1st)...Jays acquire Melvin Upton Jr.

[trellaine201]

And Kyle Drabek signed with SF to try SS

 

[RayzorIsDull]

So I guess we should just give up on next year and the year after and year after that? I guess we might as well trade every player this winter still under contract and fold the franchise. The window can stay open for a while with shrewd management and a sizeable payroll. The jays will move on without one of EE or JB just fine. Trades at the deadline don't guarantee you ****. Jays could still lose in the wild card play in or in the ALDS.

I'm sure the jays would love to add a good starting pitcher. Go be a GM and try to find one. You can't force other teams to make them available. The ones available are overrated/overpriced or just not that great. Maybe we should hold on to our young arms and develop them ourselves....just a thought.

San Fran and St.Louis are still going strong and contending. Meanwhile the Phillies and Yankees are in the dumps. 15 years of being nothing is exactly why I want long term sustained success. These past two years mean **** if we don't try to build on it and make a sustained winner.

The Yankees are below .500 after the all star break for the first time in 20 years. Let that sink in for a moment the Jays would have 18 more years to go 4-5 World Series championships and numerous playoff appearances to go to be like that. This is a 20 year run that is finally ending.

 

[Leafin]

I'm with Zeke on this one. They should be making an all in move to give them the best chance to win. I'm not sure what prospects we should give up for these upgrades but this is as good a year as any to make those moves. Our starters are looking good, our offense is firing but our bullpen needs help.

I'm not sure what you do with Sanchez. At worst i'd probably flip roles with him and Chavez. I'd like to keep him healthy instead of losing him for a full season later on despite trying to win this year. Not fair to the player to put him in a situation where he risks injury. I might be playing too cautious but i'm no doctor.

In an ideal world we'd get a quality starter to take over for Sanchez(if we put him the pen). Sanchez would help the pen. Add in 1 more reliable bullpen guy like Lowe last year on the cheap.

I'm not really concerned about the offense but the more the merrier. If we can swing a deal for a corner outfielder on a good deal why not.

 

[Bad News Benning]

The Yankees are below .500 after the all star break for the first time in 20 years. Let that sink in for a moment the Jays would have 18 more years to go 4-5 World Series championships and numerous playoff appearances to go to be like that. This is a 20 year run that is finally ending.

The Yankees haven't been a great team for quite a few years. They manage to stay above .500 simply from out spending people. They haven't been a great team since all the great home grown talent they had either retired or declined. If we want to have a contender for a long time we need to draft/develop young players. Teams that spend 200 million can afford to trade prospects and then throw money in free agency to fill the holes left by the lack of young players but that strategy usually leads to failure. Last time I checked we don't have a 200 million dollar payroll so it's best not to trade young talent away for short term needs.

People are so spoiled with last years deadline that they expect big moves every year. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox and can't afford to do that. I'm sure management will explore ways to improve the team but they have a duty to think about the future impact of every move.

 

[Woodman19]

I keep hearing people wanting to make a "splash". Who do you want to acquire and what do you think we have to make the deal?

I will even settle for someone telling me what the glaring weakness is on the team.

 

[Dugath]

I say no to any big splashes.

We gave away enough futures last year.

In fact (I know I am in the minority) if it was possible the only move I would make is shipping Jose out of here. He is a declining asset, he no longer has the "arm" (got a laugh out of the Commercials having him "pitch from the outfield), his range/defense is declining. He is getting up there in age. I think the Blue Jays dodged a big one by not signing him to any sort of monstrous contract.

Not saying he is still not a good player, but he is a declining player.

 

[BertCorbeau]

While I agree het Jays can do everything they should to get better, I feel like most of those moves are marginal upgrades (unless there's a big fish out there that I'm missing and someone wants to fill me in on) ... Paying a high price for a marginal upgrade isn't particularly smart management either. There are ways to improve the club without going 'at all costs'.

 

[zeke]

So you can ***** and whine about what you want them to do, but as long as they win you will come crawling back?

stop crying. i've been through it all with this team.

 

[TF97]

Didn't you only become a fan a year ago? Its not much of a threat.

 

[The Nemesis]

IMO Sanchez should not go to the pen. Can someone fill me in on the logic behind this idea? Why are we sheltering him? Is it simply the fact that he hasn't pitched this many big league innings before?

It's not just big-league innings. It's at any level.


For his pro career he pitched 130ish innings once across 3 levels, and then only barely over 100 innings otherwise. Getting him up into heavy starter innings, like 150+ IP is uncharted territory for him.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Apparently Reddick will be traded. He's pretty amazing.

Yeah, he's awesome. Or he is against us.

 

[trellaine201]

Cola HR first AB in Buffalo.

 

[Tony Romo]

I keep hearing people wanting to make a "splash". Who do you want to acquire and what do you think we have to make the deal?

I will even settle for someone telling me what the glaring weakness is on the team.

1 Bryce Harper please

 

[Yourself]

It's not just big-league innings. It's at any level.


For his pro career he pitched 130ish innings once across 3 levels, and then only barely over 100 innings otherwise. Getting him up into heavy starter innings, like 150+ IP is uncharted territory for him.

How long do you really want to keep it as uncharted territory? He has to eventually try it or else he will never be able to according to this logic.

 

[Scoogs]

So.. I wasn't able to listen live to Jays Talk on Saturday but had heard it was legendary for all the wrong reasons.. Having just finished listening to it now, I want to ram my face into a wall. Here's the entire show for anyone needing a good laugh/cry

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue...5--Blue-Jays-Talk---July-16th---Saturday-.mp3

 

[Canada4Gold]

Just great



Was 2 for 2 with a triple tonight before that. Yes, a triple.

Hasn't been a good year injury wise for our top positional prospects. Pompey has been hurt twice or 3 times. Alford had 2 bad injuries. Urena had 3 minor injuries, now it's Rowdy's turn.

 

[BertCorbeau]

.. At least he ran in? No leg injury .. Concussion?

 

[Scrub*]

So.. I wasn't able to listen live to Jays Talk on Saturday but had heard it was legendary for all the wrong reasons.. Having just finished listening to it now, I want to ram my face into a wall. Here's the entire show for anyone needing a good laugh/cry

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/blue...5--Blue-Jays-Talk---July-16th---Saturday-.mp3

Pretty random thoughts in there. Caller admits JD is on pace for MVP season and then suggests Barney should play 3rd instead.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The Yankees haven't been a great team for quite a few years. They manage to stay above .500 simply from out spending people. They haven't been a great team since all the great home grown talent they had either retired or declined. If we want to have a contender for a long time we need to draft/develop young players. Teams that spend 200 million can afford to trade prospects and then throw money in free agency to fill the holes left by the lack of young players but that strategy usually leads to failure. Last time I checked we don't have a 200 million dollar payroll so it's best not to trade young talent away for short term needs.

People are so spoiled with last years deadline that they expect big moves every year. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox and can't afford to do that. I'm sure management will explore ways to improve the team but they have a duty to think about the future impact of every move.

Why should the Yankees be criticized for this model? It has sustained success for 20 years this is what they have done the past few years 87/84/85/95/97 so the past 5 years hovering around an average of 90 wins.

Fans aren't necessarily spoiled but they sense a small window and believe that going out and buying is the right way to do this if that means trading young pieces you do it. Furthermore do the Jays have enough young talent to supplement losses of guys like Encarnacion/Bautista/Saunders? If the Jays don't believe they have a very good crop coming up within the next year or so maybe you deal those young players to win now. Heck Donaldson might be around for 2 more years after this and if they can't afford him you may want to try and win now.

 

[Dr.Funk]

How long do you really want to keep it as uncharted territory? He has to eventually try it or else he will never be able to according to this logic.

You build up to it by adding to the limit every season for the first couple.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Why should the Yankees be criticized for this model? It has sustained success for 20 years this is what they have done the past few years 87/84/85/95/97 so the past 5 years hovering around an average of 90 wins.

Fans aren't necessarily spoiled but they sense a small window and believe that going out and buying is the right way to do this if that means trading young pieces you do it. Furthermore do the Jays have enough young talent to supplement losses of guys like Encarnacion/Bautista/Saunders? If the Jays don't believe they have a very good crop coming up within the next year or so maybe you deal those young players to win now. Heck Donaldson might be around for 2 more years after this and if they can't afford him you may want to try and win now.

Not criticizing the Yankees for building that dominant team in the late 90's. That was a well built team with home grown talent. The model of buying free agents/trading for short term reasons is not sustainable though and eventually it comes home to roost even for the Yankees. You can't keep adding older free agents to an aging core while trading away prospects in the process. The only way this team can off set trading prospects would be to bump payroll significantly...otherwise those prospects are very important when you have to pay Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Pillar, Travis, etc.

We have a chance to be a strong franchise for a long time but that won't happen if we punt good prospects every year. I personally think people are overrating the impact of potential free agent losses (and I highly highly doubt we lose all 3). Bautista, EE, and Saunders offer negative defensive value and the easiest thing to get on the cheap in free agency/trade is Defensively limited bats. We might be weaker offensively without a JB or EE here but there are other areas we can improve to off set that. Far too much doom and gloom with this fan base.

 

[Yourself]

You build up to it by adding to the limit every season for the first couple.

That is fine with me, but I read the guy I quoted as saying 150 would be asking for enough. I will admit I don't follow baseball in depth enough to know if bumping up to 170 is too big of a jump in one year, but I would think if it isn't you do at least that and then just let him go whatever he ends up pitching in the future. Of course though, with how he is pitching as a starter it is hard to shelve him once he hits whatever limit you impose.

 

[Mach85]

That is fine with me, but I read the guy I quoted as saying 150 would be asking for enough. I will admit I don't follow baseball in depth enough to know if bumping up to 170 is too big of a jump in one year, but I would think if it isn't you do at least that and then just let him go whatever he ends up pitching in the future. Of course though, with how he is pitching as a starter it is hard to shelve him once he hits whatever limit you impose.

Pitching is an unnatural motion, and young pitchers' arms have to be protected and built up gradually. You can look at Matt Harvey for a recent case. His team was in a pennant run, and the Mets let him go a little further than they originally had planned for him. This year, he didn't look right at all, his velocity was down. It turned out he has Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and will undergo season-ending shoulder surgery. He may never be the same pitcher again.

Now, the Nationals did things by the book with Strasburg and he still blew out his elbow. So this isn't a precise science by any means. But teams have to be very careful with pushing young arms too quickly.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Shi Davidi of Rogers Sportsnet, baseball’s non-waiver trade deadline is two weeks away, and what the Toronto Blue Jays do before the Aug. 1 cut-off in their first July under Mark Shapiro will be revealing about his approach to augmenting a contender.

General track record says the president and CEO will be conservative in trying to make deals, but an executive’s past moves aren’t always indicative of what one will do in the future. Decision-making is situational and clearly Shapiro is working with a host of different variables with the Blue Jays than with the Cleveland Indians. Since the organizational and financial frameworks are different, so too will be the thinking, and the Toronto market affords him opportunities he lacked before.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/ml...ne-primer-three-main-factors-drive-decisions/

Market Supply: The Boston Red Sox acted quickly and paid a high price in prospect Anderson Espinoza to acquire lefty Drew Pomeranz precisely because the trade market for starting pitching is so weak. Oakland A’s lefty Rich Hill, who left Sunday’s start against the Blue Jays after five pitches because of a popped blister, is considered the top rental available, and doing better for a pitcher with control beyond this year is going to be prohibitively expensive.

One industry source says there are a handful of lower-tier starting arms available, think of a scale like Jeremy Hellickson to Jon Niese, to eat innings. The Blue Jays pulled off one such deal along those lines earlier this season with their clever buy-low acquisition of set-up man Jason Grilli, and their evaluators may need to identify another change-of-scenery candidate.

The market is expected to be deeper for relievers, although developments regarding Aaron Sanchez will dictate interest in that regard. High-end position players like Jay Bruce and Carlos Beltran would make some sense for the Blue Jays, although the acquisition cost may be too high. Whatever they do, they’ll need to ensure the incoming player can make an impact and isn’t just window-dressing.

Prospect Capital: From the Josh Donaldson deal through last summer’s trade deadline, Anthopoulos flipped 15 minor-league pitchers plus a premium shortstop prospect in Franklin Barreto to upgrade the big-league team, and that put a dent in the farm system.

Still, the Blue Jays system isn’t as barren as it’s sometimes made out to be, and enough pieces remain for a move or two without endangering the organization. Frontline prospects like centre-fielder Anthony Alford and right-hander Conner Greene were asked about regularly last year, although moving Alford now would be selling low as injuries and underperformance have spoiled his season thus far.

The emergence of arms like Francisco Rios and Angel Perdomo has also deepened the pool of secondary prospects that could potentially be used. The challenge will be in making an add without subtracting too heavily from a group that includes Alford, Greene, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Rowdy Tellez, Richard Urena, Sean Reid-Foley, Jon Harris and 2016 first-rounder T.J. Zeuch.

Adding Payroll: An inability to add money kept the Blue Jays from making moves before the 2014 deadline, while last year Anthopoulos made sure to keep some payroll liquid to spend in July. Shapiro is believed to have done the same thing, and with the Blue Jays currently leading the American League in average attendance at 39,274, good for fourth overall in the majors, he may even have more room.

Now, one mitigating factor in that regard is that the Blue Jays budgeted for significant gains in attendance and other revenues in order to maintain payroll in the $140 million range it was at last year, covering the decline in the Canadian dollar. So the big revenue numbers so far aren’t an unexpected windfall. Still, the off-field success is creating the conditions for the Blue Jays to perhaps increase their payroll.

 

[Canada4Gold]

That is fine with me, but I read the guy I quoted as saying 150 would be asking for enough. I will admit I don't follow baseball in depth enough to know if bumping up to 170 is too big of a jump in one year, but I would think if it isn't you do at least that and then just let him go whatever he ends up pitching in the future. Of course though, with how he is pitching as a starter it is hard to shelve him once he hits whatever limit you impose.

Then I guess we'll have to defer to the MLB teams who have experience working arms up to an MLB starters workload. So whenever the Jays move him to the pen to limit his innings there's a good chance that's enough.

30% is a decent baseline. He pitched 133.1 innings in 2014, but only 101.2 last year because of the injury and the time in the pen. I can't imagine they would go anywhere near 170.