Blue Jays Discussion: Non-waiver Trade Deadline (August 1st)...Jays acquire Melvin Upton Jr.

[Jack Bauer]

Every team is trying to win but it's just not realistic to keep trading prospects every year. The best run organizations don't require major upgrades at the deadline because they have a lot of young depth to fill holes. If you keep trading away prospects you eventually end up like the Tigers, Yankees, Phillies, etc. I'd much rather model this organization after San Fran or St.Louis.

Big difference between trading prospects every year and realizing your window for a championship has less then 5 months left with the current core and trying to win while you have the chance to do some damage.

Not making a move for a good starting pitcher and some depth in another area or 2 would be a huge insult to this team. They deserve some help to try to keep them in the race with the other big markets who have already started loading up.

Yankees and Phillies are teams you WANT to be like by the way. Not even sure how you can argue against teams with banners in their buildings who inevitably have to rebuild whether they won those years or not because that's the cycle of the sport whether you win or lose...you'd think 15 years or so of being nothing would still be fresh in the mind of a fan base whose support alone should equal adding to the team for the stretch drive.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I bet you all those "best run organizations" all make major upgrades before the deadline.

and you don't upgrade every year - just the ones where you have a chance to win.

Agreed.

You pick your spots.

If this isn't a team you pick your spot with then ownership has the wrong people in charge.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I bet you all those "best run organizations" all make major upgrades before the deadline.

and you don't upgrade every year - just the ones where you have a chance to win.

So.... What do consider significant or major upgrades and what positions do you feel need to significantly upgrade?

 

[Muston Atthews]

Is David Price available?

 

[zeke]

It's not about "need". More good players make us better.

Get a good RP or 2. Get another big corner OF bat. whatever. make us better.

 

[Bad News Benning]

I bet you all those "best run organizations" all make major upgrades before the deadline.

and you don't upgrade every year - just the ones where you have a chance to win.

How many major upgrades are even out there? There isn't a David Price or even Tulo type impact player available this year. Which players are we suppose to acquire? and what are we giving up?

San Fran and St.Louis have a chance to win every year. I wonder why that is...maybe because they don't deal away their best prospects for rentals year after year? This organization has a chance to be strong for a long time so I'm not sure why you're so eager to get bent over in a trade (this is a sellers market so don't have dreams of getting Miller or whoever for cheap).

 

[tp71]

So.... What do consider significant or major upgrades and what positions do you feel need to significantly upgrade?

The add on to that is what are you prepared to give up for these "significant upgrades"

 

[Jack Bauer]

How many major upgrades are even out there? There isn't a David Price or even Tulo type impact player available this year. Which players are we suppose to acquire? and what are we giving up?

San Fran and St.Louis have a chance to win every year. I wonder why that is...maybe because they don't deal away their best prospects for rentals year after year? This organization has a chance to be strong for a long time so I'm not sure why you're so eager to get bent over in a trade (this is a sellers market so don't have dreams of getting Miller or whoever for cheap).

That's where you're wrong, though, in my opinion.

We don't have a chance to be strong for a long time. We have a very small window that might close shut this October and likely has a 2-3 year max left in the contention window.

Trying to explain why Toronto in baseball won't ever match up to a San Fran or St. Louis is a discussion that would simply take up too much time. The short of it though is that it's not at all logical.

Arizona in the NHL might one day want to be a Toronto too but it's never going to happen.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The add on to that is what are you prepared to give up for these "significant upgrades"

I'd give up a top prospect and fair bit more for a Miller/Beltran duo from NYY.

Acquiring the type of players we can get picks for if/when they leave would be my objective as it keeps the farm recycled over time as we enter a larger rebuild over the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Big difference between trading prospects every year and realizing your window for a championship has less then 5 months left with the current core and trying to win while you have the chance to do some damage.

Not making a move for a good starting pitcher and some depth in another area or 2 would be a huge insult to this team. They deserve some help to try to keep them in the race with the other big markets who have already started loading up.

Yankees and Phillies are teams you WANT to be like by the way. Not even sure how you can argue against teams with banners in their buildings who inevitably have to rebuild whether they won those years or not because that's the cycle of the sport whether you win or lose...you'd think 15 years or so of being nothing would still be fresh in the mind of a fan base whose support alone should equal adding to the team for the stretch drive.

So I guess we should just give up on next year and the year after and year after that? I guess we might as well trade every player this winter still under contract and fold the franchise. The window can stay open for a while with shrewd management and a sizeable payroll. The jays will move on without one of EE or JB just fine. Trades at the deadline don't guarantee you ****. Jays could still lose in the wild card play in or in the ALDS.

I'm sure the jays would love to add a good starting pitcher. Go be a GM and try to find one. You can't force other teams to make them available. The ones available are overrated/overpriced or just not that great. Maybe we should hold on to our young arms and develop them ourselves....just a thought.

San Fran and St.Louis are still going strong and contending. Meanwhile the Phillies and Yankees are in the dumps. 15 years of being nothing is exactly why I want long term sustained success. These past two years mean **** if we don't try to build on it and make a sustained winner.

 

[Kurtz]

There isn't a David Price or even Tulo type impact player available this year.

Apparently Reddick will be traded. He's pretty amazing.

 

[Woodman19]

if they don't make significant upgrades I'm embarassed to be a fan.

Didn't you only become a fan a year ago? Its not much of a threat.

 

[Bad News Benning]

That's where you're wrong, though, in my opinion.

We don't have a chance to be strong for a long time. We have a very small window that might close shut this October and likely has a 2-3 year max left in the contention window.

Trying to explain why Toronto in baseball won't ever match up to a San Fran or St. Louis is a discussion that would simply take up too much time. The short of it though is that it's not at all logical.

Arizona in the NHL might one day want to be a Toronto too but it's never going to happen.

Why don't we have a chance to be strong for a long time? this is a big market with a big following all over canada. There is absolutely no reason this team can't match St.Louis or San Fran as a baseball market.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Didn't you only become a fan a year ago? Its not much of a threat.

 

[zeke]

San Fran and St.Louis have a chance to win every year. I wonder why that is...maybe because they don't deal away their best prospects for rentals year after year?

SF is good every year because they have a top 5 payroll every year.

Cards had a nice run but haven't won in a while and are on the decline now, with no great youthful core to lolk forward to. If they had added some guys the past few years they may have won another title or 2.

 

[zeke]

Didn't you only become a fan a year ago? Its not much of a threat.

I stopped being embarrased to be a fan last year, for the first time in a couple decades, true enough.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

That's where you're wrong, though, in my opinion.

We don't have a chance to be strong for a long time. We have a very small window that might close shut this October and likely has a 2-3 year max left in the contention window.

Trying to explain why Toronto in baseball won't ever match up to a San Fran or St. Louis is a discussion that would simply take up too much time. The short of it though is that it's not at all logical.

Arizona in the NHL might one day want to be a Toronto too but it's never going to happen.

This is one of the most hyperbolic statements I've read in a while. Its not accurate, whatsoever.

As for the rest of the post, if your front office can draft position players properly, there is no reason why sustainability cannot be achieved. Ala St. Louis\San Francisco.

 

[The Nemesis]

 

[Woodman19]

I stopped being embarrased to be a fan last year, for the first time in a couple decades, true enough.

So you can ***** and whine about what you want them to do, but as long as they win you will come crawling back?

 

[Mach85]

Prices are likely to be very, very high for SPs, as there aren't many good ones available. Oakland reportedly insisted on Espinoza for Rich Hill, which is why they went to Pomeranz. They figured they'd go with control and youth if they were giving up a top prospect.

 

[Brown Dog]

They need at least one more impact bullpen arm, ideally two (one lefty one righty).

A depth SP.

Maybe another lefthanded bat?

 

[LV*]

Didn't you only become a fan a year ago? Its not much of a threat.

 

[bentharbour]

I'd give up a top prospect and fair bit more for a Miller/Beltran duo from NYY.

Acquiring the type of players we can get picks for if/when they leave would be my objective as it keeps the farm recycled over time as we enter a larger rebuild over the next 2-3 seasons.

And what top prospect do you think would get this team, the Toronto Blue Jays, a return of Miller and Beltran? From a top rival nonetheless. Consider the fact that Pomeranz was able to nab a top 20-30 prospect. Have you seen the cupboards? Pretty bare.

 

[trellaine201]

They need at least one more impact bullpen arm, ideally two (one lefty one righty).

A depth SP.

Maybe another lefthanded bat?

Agreed!

 

[trellaine201]

Btw why is colabello allowed to play minor league games before the end of his suspension? They say he can play with the Jays July 23.