Post-Game Talk: Nolan Patrick, We're Coming

[TheMule93]

Yes, but what are the percentage chances?

I'm assuming they haven't changed

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/nhl-draft-lottery-odds/c-879417

 

[obey86]

This is why I think talking about how we should have started re-building (sorry I don't consider "re-building on the fly" an honest attempt at re-building) 2, 3, 4, or 5 years ago is pointless. Besides the fact that we can't change any of that.

But it seems like some people are even fighting re-building now, when we are already bad. Which is the more confusing part to me.

For the record, i'm not fighting rebuilding now. I agree that it's time to rebuild, Wings are terrible. That's when teams start rebuilding, not when they are in the playoffs.

I think the people who say they should have torn down the team and rebuilt when they were a playoff team are full of nonsense though personally.

 

[TheMule93]

Here is a lottery simulator with updated standings

http://nhllotterysimulator.com

 

[Birko19]

I'm assuming they haven't changed

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/nhl-draft-lottery-odds/c-879417

Thanks for that, theres still some hockey to be played. Colorado and Arizona have us beat, and there are about 7 or 8 other teams that are in our boat, things could easily change and we could end up outside the top-10.

 

[obey86]

Umm.. Because Toronto is clearly on the upswing while we were holding steady at best and due for a steep decline to anyone paying attention.

When you're on the upswing, blowing it up because you didn't flip the switch from last to contender is dumb. You just undid all the hard work you did to assemble something that might compete soon.

When you're on the decline, blowing it up makes sense. Your best players are older and getting worse. You don't have anyone in the pipeline that can replace them. You need picks and prospects to restock. That's the perfect time to tank.

The Red Wings aren't due for a steep decline, they have already had their steep decline. It happened this year, and they are arguably a bottom 3 team in the NHL. Now the Wings will be on the upswing from this point on, just like the Leafs who may be a year or two ahead.

The Red Wings realistically can't decline anymore than they already have. Outside of like 2 teams in the NHL, they are basically the worst team in the league. Nowhere to go but up from this point.

 

[Winger98]

I wouldn't assume we have bottomed out yet.

 

[Heaton]

I wouldn't assume we have bottomed out yet.

Agreed, especially considering Z has still been our best player following a yea where he was our best player and many considered him to be terrible last year.

This team can (and will) fall further the longer we aren't proactive.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The Red Wings aren't due for a steep decline, they have already had their steep decline. It happened this year, and they are arguably a bottom 3 team in the NHL. Now the Wings will be on the upswing from this point on, just like the Leafs who may be a year or two ahead.

The Red Wings realistically can't decline anymore than they already have. Outside of like 2 teams in the NHL, they are basically the worst team in the league. Nowhere to go but up from this point.

Zetterberg is still aging more and more every year. When he's truly done, this team will really, really struggle. That'll be the bottom.

 

[obey86]

Zetterberg is still aging more and more every year. When he's truly done, this team will really, really struggle. That'll be the bottom.

And Zetterberg's decline will be offset with talent acquired from high draft picks, continued development of players like Mantha, and hopefully getting something a bit better than a league worst head coach. I thought the point of the high draft picks was to get talent the Wings don't currently have? How is that going to make them worse?

The Wings are bottomed out. Sure they could technically go from #3 worst in the league to worst in the league but that's a negligible difference. For all intents and purposes the Red Wings have nowhere to go but up from this point.

 

[Heaton]

And Zetterberg's decline will be offset with talent acquired from high draft picks, continued development of players like Mantha, and hopefully getting something a bit better than a league worst head coach. I thought the point of the high draft picks was to get talent the Wings don't currently have? How is that going to make them worse?

The Wings are bottomed out. Sure they could technically go from #3 worst in the league to worst in the league but that's a negligible difference. For all intents and purposes the Red Wings have nowhere to go but up from this point.

Mantha can't play center, his abilities are being enhanced by playing with Zetterberg. Put him with Nielsen or Sheahan and he wouldn't be nearly as effective.

 

[Bench]

I wouldn't assume we have bottomed out yet.

You think you're holding your own in the standings and...

 

[The Zermanator]

I wouldn't assume we have bottomed out yet.

Yes and not only that, but not falling anymore is not the same as being on the upswing.

We've fallen to the bottom naturally apparently. If Holland doesn't change track and start trying some new ideas, we won't be on an 'upswing', we'll just be stuck.

 

[Ezekial]

Here is a lottery simulator with updated standings

http://nhllotterysimulator.com

No Vegas in that one?

 

[TheMule93]

No Vegas in that one?

Good point. I found this online regarding Vegas

The Las Vegas franchise will be given the same odds in the 2017 NHL Draft Lottery as the team finishing with the third-fewest points during the 2016-17 regular season.

The Las Vegas franchise's First Round selection in the 2017 NHL Draft will be determined in accordance with the 2017 NHL Draft Lottery and, as a result, the Las Vegas franchise will be guaranteed no lower than the sixth overall selection.

The Las Vegas franchise then will select third in each subsequent round of the 2017 NHL Draft (subject to trades and other potential player transactions).

 

[ricky0034]

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl

one with Vegas included(and odds to pick in the top 3 included as well as the odds to pick #1)^

 

[Pavels Dog]

Mantha can't play center, his abilities are being enhanced by playing with Zetterberg. Put him with Nielsen or Sheahan and he wouldn't be nearly as effective.

I think the case for Z being helped just as much by Mantha is a strong one. We really struggled to put together a solid 1st line before Mantha was called up. And you'd hope that either Larkin or someone we draft this year can step into the #1C role once Zetterberg truly drops off. It's gonna be a long offseason, hopefully kids like Larkin/AA/Mrazek/Mantha use it to the fullest and come back ready to take bigger roles.

 

[jkutswings]

And Zetterberg's decline will be offset with talent acquired from high draft picks, continued development of players like Mantha, and hopefully getting something a bit better than a league worst head coach. I thought the point of the high draft picks was to get talent the Wings don't currently have? How is that going to make them worse?

The Wings are bottomed out. Sure they could technically go from #3 worst in the league to worst in the league but that's a negligible difference. For all intents and purposes the Red Wings have nowhere to go but up from this point.

Winning 30ish games in 2016-17 is far from the worst it COULD (not necessarily will) get.

If Detroit turned around and only won 15-20 games next year, I guarantee that would look noticeably uglier.

 

[The Zermanator]

And Zetterberg's decline will be offset with talent acquired from high draft picks, continued development of players like Mantha, and hopefully getting something a bit better than a league worst head coach. I thought the point of the high draft picks was to get talent the Wings don't currently have? How is that going to make them worse?

The Wings are bottomed out. Sure they could technically go from #3 worst in the league to worst in the league but that's a negligible difference. For all intents and purposes the Red Wings have nowhere to go but up from this point.

No, they can also stay exactly where they are. There's no guarantee Ken 'kickin' tires/prices are too high/parity' Holland can build this team out of the gutter.

 

[Frk It]

It's certainly possible that no UFA's of note want to come here next summer after this season, and Holland's penchant for loyalty buys Blashill another year at the helm.

In that case, next year could be more of the same. Unless we win the lottery, who we draft won't be on the team next year.

I could see it going either way.

 

[The Zermanator]

It's certainly possible that no UFA's of note want to come here next summer after this season, and Holland's penchant for loyalty buys Blashill another year at the helm.

In that case, next year could be more of the same. Unless we win the lottery, who we draft won't be on the team next year.

I don't think so. Dave Lewis only had one year. Polar opposite circumstances for the team between then and now obviously but still fired an underperforming coach after 1 year, much less 1 average year and 1 awful year for Blashill.

What we should be talking about more of, is who are the candidates to be this team's next coach? I think Blashill is gone, I figure the Wings just like to do it quietly after the season rather than a high profile midseason firing. But I'm not entirely sure who's available, besides Therrien I suppose.

Can Hitchcock be lured into one last challenge? He's worked with Holland before.

EDIT: Lewis coached 2 years.

 

[Frk It]

I don't think so. Dave Lewis only had one year. Polar opposite circumstances for the team between then and now obviously but still fired an underperforming coach after 1 year, much less 1 average year and one awful year for Blashill.

Dave Lewis was coaching a team that had all the pieces and was ready to compete. Not a team that was going through a rebuild. Night and day there.

And even still. What if the good coaches get snatched up, and we settle for another inexperienced guy like Blashill?

I mean, what's our draw at this point to get high level players or coaches?

 

[jkutswings]

I dunno. I very much could see Blash getting another year, between thinking injuries played a big role, and wanting to keep continuity during the move to the new arena. (Both of which I disagree with, but both of which are Holland-friendly.)

 

[chances14]

I don't think so. Dave Lewis only had one year. Polar opposite circumstances for the team between then and now obviously but still fired an underperforming coach after 1 year, much less 1 average year and 1 awful year for Blashill.

What we should be talking about more of, is who are the candidates to be this team's next coach? I think Blashill is gone, I figure the Wings just like to do it quietly after the season rather than a high profile midseason firing. But I'm not entirely sure who's available, besides Therrien I suppose.

Can Hitchcock be lured into one last challenge? He's worked with Holland before.

dave lewis actually was the head coach for two seasons from 2002 to 2004

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You think you're holding your own in the standings and...

My word Bench are you posting faces of death stuff...

There is no way that women is okay at all.

But that gif sums up our playoff chances after last week nicely. They are not okay at all and I think they are dead when looking at them.

 

[The Zermanator]

dave lewis actually was the head coach for two seasons from 2002 to 2004

Yes that's right.