Player Discussion Noah Hanifin

[Mazatt]

Just thinking about Hanifin for a while. Don't think we'll ever see "1D Hanifin" in his current state. I don't think anything significantly has changed in his playstyle that denotes why he is so much better, beyond that he has been paired with a much better partner that complements his style well. Hanifin still seems to be a very vanilla defencemen. He doesn't stand out for his offensive play, and his defensive play is just fine, and while his skating is very solid edge-wise, it isn't generally used for much. He just plays an all around solid game that doesn't rely on taking huge risks. One thing that sticks out is how he has worked himself into the zone a bit more these last few games against Ottawa (Snuck in for a back door play but couldn't convert on the off-side one-timer, and made a slick pass to Gaudreau semi-deep for a great chance that he couldn't convert on). He doesn't really stand out aside from that, other than when he makes big gaffs which point to people thinking he's worse than he really is, but his vanilla style of hockey doesn't lend itself to a "1D" style of game unless he is able to improve his stickhandling and create offense when he decides to join the rush. That, or generate offense from the point better.

The thoughts there are based upon the discussion in here that ranges from "Hanifin is the best defensemen on the team" to "Hanifin is shit" (paraphrased). Realistically I feel he is in between. He is a very safe player that you can trust to play minutes that won't hurt you, but someone where you want to see more development in order to say he is the best defensemen. He's not a gamebreaking talent but he is the kind of guy you need to succeed, imo.

 

[super6646]

He’s a fine #3, though he’s a trade chip if valimaki turns out to be top pairing and Mackey top 4 (which granted is by no means guaranteed).

 

[Mobiandi]

He's an overpaid Brett Kulak. And the problem is that on a good day, you don't notice Brett Kulak. If it's not a good day, that means you're getting outchanced and possibly scored on when he's on the ice. And it's ok to have a Kulak as long as you don't have another defensively oriented guy opposite him. Except Hanifin has Tanev, who does everything better anyway.

Hanifin's best game to date was when he completely silenced and physically imposed himself on McDavid at even strength in that 6-4 win. Performances like that win playoff series. But if you're not refined enough to churn out those kinds of games on a regular basis and you have a partner who is, then you need to influence games offensively to make up for the inevitable defensive breakdowns. The problem is that he doesn't.

The Gio-Rasmus pairing has the same problem and it's why wins are so hard to come by for this team. You can't defend for your life and hope for a moment of magic to come from the powerplay or your 3 forwards besting a 5 man unit at even strength. It's not 1995 anymore. For Dmen, defending starts in the neutral zone, not inside your own blueline. And attacking a team starts in your own zone, not the neutral zone.

There's a Brodie comparison on the previous page and I don't see it. Even when the tangible points dried up for Brodie he was still extremely impactful in all areas of the game. He was the one regularly babysitting Giordano defensively against the opposition's best 5 man unit last year. And he was also the team's most effective guy in the transition - hence why he was on PP1 for long stretches of the year. The gaffes presented themselves occassionally and those were what people focused on, but he defended extremely well and moved the puck better than anyone and we were a better team because of his effectiveness on both sides.

In contrast, the only thing Hanifin regularly displays is the instinct to get up and join the rush. But he doesn't move the puck well on any third of the ice, he's often guilty of overskating the puck when he carries it, and his shots either don't get through traffic or go wide on open looks. Even Brodie's muffins found a way to get to the net.

The most annoying thing about Hanifin by far is how useless he is on the breakouts. One of his go-tos is weakly chipping the puck to one of our wingers sitting on our blueline. Like I get that some coaches 86 the stretch pass but we're not a fast team, so move the puck quickly. Because his weakass passes increase the propensity for our forwards to remain static, killing our transition because it plays right into the other team's plans to suffocate us in the neutral zone with the trap.

The other thing he does, which is more infuriating, is delaying the breakout by pinning himself to the boards with the puck and inviting the other team to forecheck us. Sometimes we win the board battle and he pointlessly plays catch with Tanev for a while, further delaying our transition to attack and tiring out our forwards. And sometimes he loses it and we're under pressure again. He needs to start moving his feet yesterday

We have three other minute munchers in Tanev, Andersson, and Gio. But Hanifin's the only guy in our top 4 that has fans pumping his tires with how well-rounded he is and how sexy his analytics are. Hanifin's defensive improvements this season are welcome but still greatly outweighed by his inability to positively influence our team on offense.

And it's why I and others want Kylington to be a big-minute regular. Like it or not, if you want to succeed in the NHL, you need a young defenseman on small money who can tilt the scales with the puck. And if he hurts you defensively, you suck it up because at least you can depend on him to diversify your team's skillset and throw a wrench in the other coach's defensive plans, which is the hardest thing to achieve as a player

 

[Mazatt]

He's an overpaid Brett Kulak. And the problem is that on a good day, you don't notice Brett Kulak. If it's not a good day, that means you're getting outchanced and possibly scored on when he's on the ice. And it's ok to have a Kulak as long as you don't have another defensively oriented guy opposite him. Except Hanifin has Tanev, who does everything better anyway.

Hanifin's best game to date was when he completely silenced and physically imposed himself on McDavid at even strength in that 6-4 win. Performances like that win playoff series. But if you're not refined enough to churn out those kinds of games on a regular basis and you have a partner who is, then you need to influence games offensively to make up for the inevitable defensive breakdowns. The problem is that he doesn't.

The Gio-Rasmus pairing has the same problem and it's why wins are so hard to come by for this team. You can't defend for your life and hope for a moment of magic to come from the powerplay or your 3 forwards besting a 5 man unit at even strength. It's not 1995 anymore. For Dmen, defending starts in the neutral zone, not inside your own blueline. And attacking a team starts in your own zone, not the neutral zone.

There's a Brodie comparison on the previous page and I don't see it. Even when the tangible points dried up for Brodie he was still extremely impactful in all areas of the game. He was the one regularly babysitting Giordano defensively against the opposition's best 5 man unit last year. And he was also the team's most effective guy in the transition - hence why he was on PP1 for long stretches of the year. The gaffes presented themselves occassionally and those were what people focused on, but he defended extremely well and moved the puck better than anyone and we were a better team because of his effectiveness on both sides.

In contrast, the only thing Hanifin regularly displays is the instinct to get up and join the rush. But he doesn't move the puck well on any third of the ice, he's often guilty of overskating the puck when he carries it, and his shots either don't get through traffic or go wide on open looks. Even Brodie's muffins found a way to get to the net.

The most annoying thing about Hanifin by far is how useless he is on the breakouts. One of his go-tos is weakly chipping the puck to one of our wingers sitting on our blueline. Like I get that some coaches 86 the stretch pass but we're not a fast team, so move the puck quickly. Because his weakass passes increase the propensity for our forwards to remain static, killing our transition because it plays right into the other team's plans to suffocate us in the neutral zone with the trap.

The other thing he does, which is more infuriating, is delaying the breakout by pinning himself to the boards with the puck and inviting the other team to forecheck us. Sometimes we win the board battle and he pointlessly plays catch with Tanev for a while, further delaying our transition to attack and tiring out our forwards. And sometimes he loses it and we're under pressure again. He needs to start moving his feet yesterday

We have three other minute munchers in Tanev, Andersson, and Gio. But Hanifin's the only guy in our top 4 that has fans pumping his tires with how well-rounded he is and how sexy his analytics are. Hanifin's defensive improvements this season are welcome but still greatly outweighed by his inability to positively influence our team on offense.

And it's why I and others want Kylington to be a big-minute regular. Like it or not, if you want to succeed in the NHL, you need a young defenseman on small money who can tilt the scales with the puck. And if he hurts you defensively, you suck it up because at least you can depend on him to diversify your team's skillset and throw a wrench in the other coach's defensive plans, which is the hardest thing to achieve as a player

There's a lot mentioned there (alot of which I agree with as far as his breakouts are concerned, but that also pushes the Flames away from the "put Dube offside by giving him a stretch pass," which I support) but the bolded part is just something I can't get behind. It might be a difference in philosophy but having a safe defensemen in the top 4 that can make mistakes doesn't mean they have to compensate offensively. It would be like looking at the game against Winnipeg where Hanifin was playing his man properly before Tanev came by and tripped Hanifin up, leading to a goal against, and saying that Tanev should be able to contribute on offense and should take more risks to do so. There is nothing inherently wrong with being an opportunistic defensemen that picks up points by being the 4th man in on the rush/activating down low. And then suggesting that having two guys who are good at shutting down the opposition on the same pairing isn't useful seems fully untrue. There was an article that dove into how Tanev and Hanifin's similarity in defending the rush leads to them being a much more potent pairing than other combinations. I will agree Gio and Andy don't work together because they both get caught trying to get up on the rush and leaving the zone too early (a lot of random 1 on 0's from a turnover, and even the Lucic turnover on Thursday, Andersson was almost at the blueline while the puck was going into the slot) but that doesn't demerit two defensive guys together.

My main point on that is that, Hanifin being inconsistent now does not mean he needs to change his game and find an offensive gear other than the safe play he brings now. How he gets consistency is continuing to be put into spots as a shutdown d-man where he faces top competition. Putting him in this new role and limiting the reigns/not asking him to force too much seems ideal compared to asking for him to shutdown guys and also contribute offensively.


Another difference in philosophy comes in the application of Kylington. Offense is at a premiuim in the NHL but not being able to defend well really diminishes that aspect of a players game. What's the point in producing goals in a top 4 role when that increased ice time will highlight struggles defensively and lead to goals against? It's the same thought I have about Valimaki. Great offensive piece that can produce from the point and add to the rush, but his play in front of the net holds him back from being a top 4 piece right now. I think Kylington should no doubt be a regular on this roster based on the action he's got this year, but elevating him into the top 4 for big minutes over any of the guys seen currently seems like an over-adjustment from a team that has struggled to score goals. He can provice offense with 10-15 minutes a night on the 3rd pair, expecting anything more than that from a guy with low career totals as a #6 d-man is setting yourself up for disappointment with how he hasn't proven to be trustworthy in the same way guys above him have.

 

[Nanuuk]

Great conversation and a lot of thought put into the last couple of posts. I'll add this wildcard. If Hanifin put a few forwards through the boards in our dZone would that make him a top tier defenceman?

I'm thinking it would change a lot of people's perceptions to think Regehr. Not entirely the same type of player, but steady if not spectacular at times.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Great conversation and a lot of thought put into the last couple of posts. I'll add this wildcard. If Hanifin put a few forwards through the boards in our dZone would that make him a top tier defenceman?

I'm thinking it would change a lot of people's perceptions to think Regehr. Not entirely the same type of player, but steady if not spectacular at times.

Speaking of Regehr, there were many vocal message board fans that wanted him traded repeatedly early in his career, because reasons.

That would have been less than ideal.

I see a similar pattern with Hanifin.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Lol Hanifin is absolutely a number 2 D man.

the only Brett Kulak thing about Hanifin is that our fan base shows how clueless they are by vastly undervaluing him

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Great conversation and a lot of thought put into the last couple of posts. I'll add this wildcard. If Hanifin put a few forwards through the boards in our dZone would that make him a top tier defenceman?

I'm thinking it would change a lot of people's perceptions to think Regehr. Not entirely the same type of player, but steady if not spectacular at times.

people in hockey markets only look at stat columns. The Jaybos, Regehrs and Hanifins of the world will never be embraced in this city.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Lol Hanifin is absolutely a number 2 D man.

the only Brett Kulak thing about Hanifin is that our fan base shows how clueless they are by vastly undervaluing him

Pretty much. Hes definitely a top pairing guy, him and Tanev have been exceptional this season. Now that he has a partner he gels with and is a decent passer, I can see his numbers improve offensively. He also needs a coach that is willing to let him skate and take some offensive risks. For whatever reason thats not Calgary, or Kylington would be a regular.

 

[Mobiandi]

There's a lot mentioned there (alot of which I agree with as far as his breakouts are concerned, but that also pushes the Flames away from the "put Dube offside by giving him a stretch pass," which I support) but the bolded part is just something I can't get behind. It might be a difference in philosophy but having a safe defensemen in the top 4 that can make mistakes doesn't mean they have to compensate offensively. It would be like looking at the game against Winnipeg where Hanifin was playing his man properly before Tanev came by and tripped Hanifin up, leading to a goal against, and saying that Tanev should be able to contribute on offense and should take more risks to do so. There is nothing inherently wrong with being an opportunistic defensemen that picks up points by being the 4th man in on the rush/activating down low. And then suggesting that having two guys who are good at shutting down the opposition on the same pairing isn't useful seems fully untrue. There was an article that dove into how Tanev and Hanifin's similarity in defending the rush leads to them being a much more potent pairing than other combinations. I will agree Gio and Andy don't work together because they both get caught trying to get up on the rush and leaving the zone too early (a lot of random 1 on 0's from a turnover, and even the Lucic turnover on Thursday, Andersson was almost at the blueline while the puck was going into the slot) but that doesn't demerit two defensive guys together.

My main point on that is that, Hanifin being inconsistent now does not mean he needs to change his game and find an offensive gear other than the safe play he brings now. How he gets consistency is continuing to be put into spots as a shutdown d-man where he faces top competition. Putting him in this new role and limiting the reigns/not asking him to force too much seems ideal compared to asking for him to shutdown guys and also contribute offensively.


Another difference in philosophy comes in the application of Kylington. Offense is at a premiuim in the NHL but not being able to defend well really diminishes that aspect of a players game. What's the point in producing goals in a top 4 role when that increased ice time will highlight struggles defensively and lead to goals against? It's the same thought I have about Valimaki. Great offensive piece that can produce from the point and add to the rush, but his play in front of the net holds him back from being a top 4 piece right now. I think Kylington should no doubt be a regular on this roster based on the action he's got this year, but elevating him into the top 4 for big minutes over any of the guys seen currently seems like an over-adjustment from a team that has struggled to score goals. He can provice offense with 10-15 minutes a night on the 3rd pair, expecting anything more than that from a guy with low career totals as a #6 d-man is setting yourself up for disappointment with how he hasn't proven to be trustworthy in the same way guys above him have.

There's a lot of variables at play when it comes to our struggles this season. One of my main concerns going into the season was about where the points were coming to come from on the back-end and if Andersson was ready to step up in Brodie's absence. Gio-Ras have been a tirefire on both ends of the ice. I can't blame Andersson too much - Gio's 37, his body is letting him down more with each passing week and it's hard to strike chemistry with a new partner that's set in his ways when you're also not the most fleet of foot.

When it comes Hanifin-Tanev, they're a nice pairing on the defensive side of things but you can't reliably use their kind of playstyle in the NHL anymore if you want them to have the lion's share of ice time. It's not their fault that we've been outscored 25-11 going back to Feb 17th but they deserve some blame for not being able to help us add some goals for. Hanfin's ATOI is actually down a couple minutes from last year but he's clocked 21-22 minutes with Tanev a fair bit this season. And you can't spend that entire time thinking about keeping the puck out of your net, especially against the firepower they're up against in the division.

We saw what a true modern shutdown pairing looks like in Gio-Brodie. They took the most minutes and you could rely on them to keep the opposition's best quiet for an entire night but when they were scored on, you weren't sitting there wondering where the team's next goal was coming from while they were out there because they were high IQ players who opened up games with their effective puck movement. The old 3M with Frolik and the Bergeron lines are technically shutdown lines too but they work because they are extremely dependable offensively while logging the biggest minutes and being strong away from the puck. Hanifin-Tanev are strong defensively but when they're breached you just have to hope it doesn't happen again on the night because they're not going to help the team get that goal back. And it's a big issue if Ward decides he's going to ride them hard that night.

I think it is a difference in philosophy. I have no issue with having at least one riverboat gambler (@Fig) in the top 4 that can carve teams open. Because then it makes it easier to shrug off the goals against. This current system isn't working, why not shake it up?
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio-Kylington
(the Kulak comparison wasn't meant to be offensive because he's actually a dependable shutdown guy for the Habs but if he's paired with Andersson, it might open things up for one of them to be more offensively risky)

I said it on the previous page and it's something that made sense to me after reading some Canes fans opinions on him and also having witnessed Jay-Bo but I wouldn't be surprised if Hanifin hits his peak super late, like the kind of guy who plays his best hockey after 30.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Kylington needs to have regular top 4 minutes. At least a quality partner with PP time.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Kylington needs to have regular top 4 minutes. At least a quality partner with PP time.

I just want him in the lineup to watch him skate he makes it look so effortless

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I just want him in the lineup to watch him skate he makes it look so effortless

At the very least, he adds speed to our lineup and some creativity to our backend. His defensive game has grown lots.

People need to go back and read this boards concerns when Brodie was ready to start playing. It’s almost the exact same things people say about Kylington.

 

[TheHudlinator]

At the very least, he adds speed to our lineup and some creativity to our backend. His defensive game has grown lots.

People need to go back and read this boards concerns when Brodie was ready to start playing. It’s almost the exact same things people say about Kylington.

Even if I didn't think Kylington could grow and be a better player I'd still play him over Nesterov as Kylingtons skating is what we need in the lineup. Personally I'd run

Hanifin - Ras
Valimaki - Tanev
Gio - Kylington

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Even if I didn't think Kylington could grow and be a better player I'd still play him over Nesterov as Kylingtons skating is what we need in the lineup. Personally I'd run

Hanifin - Ras
Valimaki - Tanev
Gio - Kylington

Agree 100%

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I too would break up Hanifin Tanev. They are too similar. I think playing with Tanev did wonders for Hanifin’s game. But I think both those guys need to play with offensive players. They dominate possession but don’t do much with it. Where with Gio and Ras they seem to struggle defensively and in creating possession but create a lot more offensively.

 

[badi]

Lol Hanifin is absolutely a number 2 D man.

the only Brett Kulak thing about Hanifin is that our fan base shows how clueless they are by vastly undervaluing him

How can a number 2 defenseman not be on any special teams of his team ?
He does not have the shutdown or physical game to be that
Also he does not bring any offense to his game

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

How can a number 2 defenseman not be on any special teams of his team ?
He does not have the shutdown or physical game to be that
Also he does not bring any offense to his game

something something Dougie Hamilton.

he absolutely has the shutdown ability. He’s been incredible defensively this year except for the McDavid gaffe he made... against McDavid...

 

[Sparky93]

something something Dougie Hamilton.

he absolutely has the shutdown ability. He’s been incredible defensively this year except for the McDavid gaffe he made... against McDavid...

The guy is a complete bum, have another one.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

The guy is a complete bum, have another one.

rich coming from the guy that thinks Monahan is better than Gaudreau

Hanifin has been one of about 3 bright spots on this team. Not surprised you can’t see that.

 

[Sparky93]

rich coming from the guy that thinks Monahan is better than Gaudreau

Hanifin has been one of about 3 bright spots on this team. Not surprised you can’t see that.

I don't think Monahan is better than Gaudreau but I do think Gaudreau will be the first to go. He's on pace for 10 points over 82 games. Even by defensive defenseman standards, thats definitely not a bright spot. I'm not even gonna bother looking it up but I'd bet that sort of production would place him in the top 15% of least producing regular Calgary Flames defensemen of all time. At $5 million there isn't a single team in the entire NHL that is even considering acquiring this guy, without complete dead cap coming back the other way.

 

[DFF]

rich coming from the guy that thinks Monahan is better than Gaudreau

Hanifin has been one of about 3 bright spots on this team. Not surprised you can’t see that.

It’s sad that hanifin is a bright spot, he is terrible. A second pairing guy that makes mistakes often

 

[GumbyCan2]

Kylington needs to have regular top 4 minutes. At least a quality partner with PP time.

No other D man is stepping up in the O-driving side. And lately we are getting penned in our end way too much.
Need a "risky option" to try out-skate the puck out, as in actually skate it out.

 

[GumbyCan2]

It’s sad that hanifin is a bright spot, he is terrible. A second pairing guy that makes mistakes often

I get it we all wish he brought more offense and less giveaways. He WAS showing better, I thought my eyes told me they saw him looking more poised and confident in moving the puck to the neutral zone and over the blue line, over the 1st 10 games.Everybody on the roster has _hit the bed a few times, in any given period at some point over last 10 games.
Hanifin is to blame for his blunders, but what about most of the others too?
This TEAM needs to better, together! Maybe coaching?

 

[badi]

Reading the general comments in here Hanifin has great value around the league and I agree
That’s the reason the Flames should use him in a trade to help in another area of need