Noah Cates next contract

[Curufinwe]

I love when the takeaway from Frost out performing Tippett at ES offensively and especially defensively over an entire season (despite being given less opportunity by Torts) is that Tippett is a core piece while Frost is kinda meh and bound to regress.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah it should be clearly obvious that Frost should be a #2 C while Cates a #3.

But if Couts does come back, Torts might do dumb shit.

 

[Striiker]

I remember when everyone laughed at the Tanev and Laughton contracts, too.

The Laughton contract was a clear mistake too. Nothings changed there.

The mirage of it being decent now that he’s scoring more only exists because Fletcher destroyed the roster, so Laughtons been gifted a much larger role than he’d have on any real team.

A smart GM trades him for a 1st when we had the chance. A bad GM overvalues extremely replaceable players, like Laughton and Cates.

 

[BernieParent]

So you wouldn't come around to a 4x3.5mm contract that Lars Eller signed in 14-15 when he was 25yo? He had yet to score 30pts in a season before that extension. I'd say Cates is already better than Eller was at roughly the same age as that extension. With the adjusted cap hit that would be a 4x4 deal probably. That would be the deal for a very good 3C/play-driving complementary 2W in Cates. I'd be ok with that.

2014 was Eller's 5th NHL season, before which he had played in 286 games under contracts of $845,833 (3 years, including first year where he only played 7 NHL games) and $1.15 million. He was given time to prove his worth. Cates just finished year 1 as a full-time NHLer. I'm good with pumping the brakes on locking him up until he can at least show a repeat performance next season.

 

[GKJ]

I’m hoping they sign him and then we win the lightning trade deadline lottery

 

[freakydallas13]

I'm, again, in the minority when it comes to Frost but I won't go down that rabbit hole ITT lol, but I disagree on long-terming him. I think he'll be relegated to 3C quickly once we have more talent in the pipeline, and he won't be successful in that kind of role.

The only thing I have against Tippett is his age in relation to our rebuild, otherwise I loved his game last season and would like to keep him.

Tippet and Cates are the same age, so saying one you want to sign for 8 years and the other's age in relation to the rebuild timeline might not make sense is whack.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah it should be clearly obvious that Frost should be a #2 C while Cates a #3.

But if Couts does come back, Torts might do dumb shit.

Not that simple. You want to give Frost the better matchups, O-zone faceoffs, more PT when you're behind and need to score.
But you'd also want to give Cates the tougher matchups, D-zone faceoffs, more PT with a 3rd period lead.
Neither is proven right now, Cates has to work his offense, Frost on his consistency.

It's not an either/or, both could move to LW depending on who they draft, trade, sign for the next few years.
Frost isn't an elite playmaker, Cates could be better if Brink were to emerge as a top RW playmaker.
Both are solid pieces going forward, neither is a lead dog. Neither should have been used as a 1C last season. But there were no viable alternatives.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nah it is that simple. Frost with your better offensive players leverages all their skillsets better than Cates being in that spot.

 

[Magua]

What is the actual risk in not signing Cates long-term? He somewhat maintains his 3rd line production amid a usage drop, his defensive numbers are still relatively strong, and his value probably stays pretty consistent in potential cap hit. That, uh, doesn't sound like much of a risk to me. Bridge risks are always in sizable production spikes, and I can tell you I'm not worrying about Cates turning into a 45-50 point player, as he slides down the lineup from his 1C/PP1 role.

 

[wankstifier]

Priorities

 

[FlyguyOX]

I am not saying that I would extend Frost, but to me he's the most likely candidate who will produce at a higher clip.

I'm not sure why Frost would be relegated to 3C. Last year he produced as a top line offensive forward, and again he wasn't given great wingers. It makes no sense if you believe Cates can be better offensively, but Frost can't be. I think they both can be better, but I think Frost has another gear and Cates only has another half step.

No, I think Frost can’t be useful in anything other than a top 6 role, but I don’t think he’s good enough to be a top 6 player on a good team. Hince a bridge so that he keeps trying to prove he can be a 2C on a contender.

I think Cates can be useful and Impactful anywhere in a lineup

I love when the takeaway from Frost out performing Tippett at ES offensively and especially defensively over an entire season (despite being given less opportunity by Torts) is that Tippett is a core piece while Frost is kinda meh and bound to regress.

Sorry when was that a universally held opinion? Because I 1000% disagree.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost has shown he's more than adequate to fit a 3C role, even if you subscribe to antiquated role ideas. A Cates-Frost-Tippett 3rd line would be fine, but they refused to try that very obvious thing

 

[FlyguyOX]

Tippet and Cates are the same age, so saying one you want to sign for 8 years and the other's age in relation to the rebuild timeline might not make sense is whack.

You got me there, though centers are tougher to come by. I believe I said it was my only hesitance about Tippett, though

 

[FlyguyOX]

What is the actual risk in not signing Cates long-term? He somewhat maintains his 3rd line production amid a usage drop, his defensive numbers are still relatively strong, and his value probably stays pretty consistent in potential cap hit. That, uh, doesn't sound like much of a risk to me. Bridge risks are always in sizable production spikes, and I can tell you I'm not worrying about Cates turning into a 45-50 point player, as he slides down the lineup from his 1C/PP1 role.

I get this viewpoint. Mine is were a rebuilding team so why get the discount now on a bridge when you can get the discount years down the road via a long term contract now while the cap ceiling is much lower. Contracts are still a % of the cap so blank % now is lower than same % in two years

Frost has shown he's more than adequate to fit a 3C role, even if you subscribe to antiquated role ideas. A Cates-Frost-Tippett 3rd line would be fine, but they refused to try that very obvious thing

He did come on strong the last third of the season I agree.

I was hollering for that same line too! They killed it the previous season in their short time together

 

[Striiker]

Frost is very clearly the best of him, Tippett, and Cates.

But he’s not big and he’s offensively skilled, so the propaganda forces are against him.

 

[deadhead]

I get this viewpoint. Mine is were a rebuilding team so why get the discount now on a bridge when you can get the discount years down the road via a long term contract now while the cap ceiling is much lower. Contracts are still a % of the cap so blank % now is lower than same % in two years


He did come on strong the last third of the season I agree.

I was hollering for that same line too! They killed it the previous season in their short time together

That makes sense if you're rebuilding, since you're gambling on the cap in future years when you'll have plenty of room and the flexibiilty to dump a bad contract - where a bunch of discount contracts could set you up five years from now.

 

[Lindberg]

8 year deal for Noah Cates..... what.

 

[Flyer lurker]

rebuilding teams are all about the 8 year deals for nice not great players.

 

[flyershockey]

Why are we discussing anything but a bridge deal for an RFA with limited offensive upside and a small sample size? He's a fine player, but penciling him in long term right now? Nah, dawg.

 

[tictactoe]

2 years at 1.5m a year

 

[GapToothedWonder]

LA was the example of the team that did that, I think

So one team in the last 12 years (probably longer), who also happened to have a generational goalie. Seems like a very repeatable model.

 

[FLYguy3911]

There are no hard top 6s and bottom 6s anymore. Don't do this to @JojoTheWhale.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Frost is very clearly the best of him, Tippett, and Cates.

But he’s not big and he’s offensively skilled, so the propaganda forces are against him.

Yikes. Tippett was our 2nd best forward last year. He was getting 28min/night for a month or so for a reason

 

[ajgoal]

There are no hard top 6s and bottom 6s anymore. Don't do this to @JojoTheWhale.

There's a team in Philadelphia that would beg to differ.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There are no hard top 6s and bottom 6s anymore. Don't do this to @JojoTheWhale.

Well, not if you're running the team well.

There's a team in Philadelphia that would beg to differ.

strict role enforcement. Don't fit the role they associate with an open spot? No use for you.