No longterm future for American teams in so-called non hockey markets! (endorsements)

[Beukeboom Fan]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

What NHL player makes a ton of money on endorsements? The ELITE super stars (Gretzky & Lemieux) might, but what hockey player has a national endorsement presence? Nash probably could make as much advertising Chevy trucks in CLM as he could in DAL or COL.

If what you are saying is true, wouldn't all of the star players taken less money playing for the Isles, Hawks & Kings (biggest markets) under the old CBA?

 

[Sotnos]

Washington has been around for a long time, I don't see them just collapsing as a franchise just because they are re-building

Florida I have hope for....but Tampa seems to have some longevity to them thanks to the Cup, but I don't see them perminentaly there either

NSH, ATL, CAR will all re-locate

You are basing this on what exactly?

 

[ScottyBowman]

Is there really any team in the NHL that has no fan base? IMO even if a team can attract as little as 10 000 people per game with the price they're asking for tickets now, then I'd say they've got a decent fanbase.

I don't think Atlanta or Carolina has a legit fanbase.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

You are basing this on what exactly?

On the same horse poop that all contraction-relocation posts feed on.... I think that given the mess of a cba and its relative imbalance among teams that it's a wonder there are any hockey fans left, so it's a credit to the 8,000 that have been attending in some markets.. Let's see what happens in these markets under a reasonable cba, they will either fail or succeed. Discussing the topic before 3-5 years is just a chance for people to be antagonistic or embarass the Canadian populace in general..

 

[missK]

You are basing this on what exactly?

On something someone was spouting at this message board no doubt

 

[futurcorerock]

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

You're kidding, right?

Do you even watch hockey?

Last I checked, both TB and Columbus do a fine job drawing crowds. As a matter of fact, Tampa Bay won this thing called a Stanley Cup a while back.

Columbus has been a consistent bottom feeder since it's start and they can fill their arena with such star power as Andrew Cassels, Robert Kron, and Lyle Odelein. They also boasted a sellout record that would make most teams in the NHL blush.

 

[Hasbro]

The only problem with Detroit is that people continue to move away from the city.

I can think of a few others.

 

[Sotnos]

On the same horse poop that all contraction-relocation posts feed on.... I think that given the mess of a cba and its relative imbalance among teams that it's a wonder there are any hockey fans left, so it's a credit to the 8,000 that have been attending in some markets.. Let's see what happens in these markets under a reasonable cba, they will either fail or succeed. Discussing the topic before 3-5 years is just a chance for people to be antagonistic or embarass the Canadian populace in general..

Indeed

The whole premise of this thread, which is saying that the new CBA will be worse for newer teams, makes little sense at all. And using Columbus as an example? Check out some attendance stats sometime, please.

 

[me2]

And Philadelphia, et al., will have cap space to acquire all these other teams' players?

They won't need cap space. These players will all sign there for $500K/year and pull in $12m/year each in endorsements.

 

[signalIInoise]

While I am not a fan of the way the CBA appears to be shaking out, I don't see this as a problem.

This only becomes a problem with truly elite players, which by way of your example, Rick Nash is not. It only becomes a problem when his skill outpaces the ability of the Bluejackets to pay him -- In other words, when he becomes worth more than 20% of their cap, and Columbus can afford to sign players to the upper limit of the cap. I foresee them running out of willingness before they run out of space.

The idea that advertisers want the general populace is an uninformed stance. Advertisers target. It costs too damned much to just throw it at the wall to see what sticks, and few companies really advertise that way. Off the top of my head there's Coke, Pepsi, Geicko and CapitalOne, doing TOMA advertising (Top of Mind Advertising). They dont have a demographic, and are successful enough that they simply want to remind consumers that "Hey, we're still here". These are the only real endorsement contracts that are going to be affected by the market that a player plays in -- local contracts are there in any market.

 

[me2]

Good point, but these teams like Philly, Detroit, Toronto, will be able to take their pick of these elite level players, coupled with the fact that some top level talent will want to play with other great players, and could potentially take less if it means winning, not to mention, the better endorsement opportunities that would make taking less on a contract seem a lot easier to swallow.

Take Nash for instance. He's in Columbus until he is 28. He'll be trading a massive profile in Columbus, complete with all of his local endorsements built up over the years for nothing. He'll have to start again. And if he goes to stacked market, as you are suggesting, then he'll have to not only compete for endorsements but he'll have to compete for endorsements against star players already established in that area. He'll go from being the only and biggest fish in a mid sized pond, to a midsized fish in big pond with 4 other fish.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

Reaching.

 

[snakepliskin]

I don't think Atlanta or Carolina has a legit fanbase.

carolina regularly goes well over 15 k when we have had a decent team however the last 2 years have been a rebuilding project and even with our horrible streak we were over 12 k most nights--our young guys are another year older and we should be much improved and hopefully the fans will again fill the seats, but that being said we as fans and the players should be thankful there is still a league and that the nhl did not dissolve. 1 mill a year in any other league would have looked huge with no nhl. i don't think any market knows what kind of backlash may awaith the game when it returns but i am sure there will be different reactions in different cities.

 

[GirardIsStupid]

Just get rid of the small market american teams. I want to see less teams in the league and it'd be better for the overall product. Small market teams...just go away like my Jets went away.

 

[Puckhead]

You're kidding, right?

Do you even watch hockey?

Last I checked, both TB and Columbus do a fine job drawing crowds. As a matter of fact, Tampa Bay won this thing called a Stanley Cup a while back.

Columbus has been a consistent bottom feeder since it's start and they can fill their arena with such star power as Andrew Cassels, Robert Kron, and Lyle Odelein. They also boasted a sellout record that would make most teams in the NHL blush.

As a matter of fact I do! The fact that TBay won the cup means what exactly? The fact that Jay Feaster the GM of the Bolts could barely give tickets away until the team started winning in January. To further prove my point that the state of Florida does not support hockey, is that in early November I found myself vacationing just outside of Tampa Bay, and every morning I eargerly checked the Tampa Bay Tribune for anything to do with the lockout or any news in general about hockey, do you know what I found? A tiny three line blurb about "no talks planned, and day 35 of the lockout". This, in the city that won that thing called the Stanley Cup! You see, I happen to understand, unlike most of you, that simply because a team wins the cup, does not mean that they support hockey. Also, the fact that you have a decent season ticket base means about the same. Tampa wins the cup...too bad a very minute percentage of Floridians know what the hell that is...and that is part of the incredibly minute percentage who follow hockey at all south of the border. Believe me this is not an anti-American rant, I think that the game does belong in the States, just put it where people actually know it exists. I say Carolina is not a hockey market, and I get idiotic comments about how when Carolina made it to the finals you couldn't find a ticket, well last I checked they haven't even made the playoffs since and the place is more than half empty.

My whole argument when starting this thread was to say that certain teams will lose their top end talent when they can get the same money and have better opportunities for endorsement deals elsewhere. How anyone can say "do you even watch hockey?" is ignorant to put it mildly. If you don't agree with what I say, then back it up with some facts. I never said teams can't draw crowds, I said that under the new look CBA it will be difficult to keep your stars, and if that is the case on an ongoing basis, those teams will not be around.

So in future please stick to facts regarding what I said, and don't go off on your own tangent questioning my knowledge of the game of hockey. You are the one who knows not of what you speak.

 

[snakepliskin]

As a matter of fact I do! The fact that TBay won the cup means what exactly? The fact that Jay Feaster the GM of the Bolts could barely give tickets away until the team started winning in January. To further prove my point that the state of Florida does not support hockey, is that in early November I found myself vacationing just outside of Tampa Bay, and every morning I eargerly checked the Tampa Bay Tribune for anything to do with the lockout or any news in general about hockey, do you know what I found? A tiny three line blurb about "no talks planned, and day 35 of the lockout". This, in the city that won that thing called the Stanley Cup! You see, I happen to understand, unlike most of you, that simply because a team wins the cup, does not mean that they support hockey. Also, the fact that you have a decent season ticket base means about the same. Tampa wins the cup...too bad a very minute percentage of Floridians know what the hell that is...and that is part of the incredibly minute percentage who follow hockey at all south of the border. Believe me this is not an anti-American rant, I think that the game does belong in the States, just put it where people actually know it exists. I say Carolina is not a hockey market, and I get idiotic comments about how when Carolina made it to the finals you couldn't find a ticket, well last I checked they haven't even made the playoffs since and the place is more than half empty.

My whole argument when starting this thread was to say that certain teams will lose their top end talent when they can get the same money and have better opportunities for endorsement deals elsewhere. How anyone can say "do you even watch hockey?" is moronic to put it mildly. If you don't agree with what I say, then back it up with some facts. I never said teams can't draw crowds, I said that under the new look CBA it will be difficult to keep your stars, and if that is the case on an ongoing basis, those teams will not be around.

So in future please stick to facts regarding what I said, and don't go off on your own tangent questioning my knowledge of the game of hockey. You are the one who knows not of what you speak.

the place is not half empty more lik a 1/4. (must be a lot of ex-whale and jet fans posting today)

 

[Puckhead]

Reaching.

I really appreciate how you express yourself and back up your very intelligent arguments with one word answers. You don't have to agree with what I think, but atleast take a minute and give me your reasons as to why you feel I am reaching. I don't think that is too much to ask. I knew I would get comments like that when I wrote this thread, but I was hoping to hear why people disagreed.

 

[Puckhead]

the place is not half empty more lik a 1/4. (must be a lot of ex-whale and jet fans posting today)

Sorry, but when I am watching my team play in Carolina against the Hurricanes, and they announce a crowd of 8,000 that means less than half. I am not an ex whaler fan, and though I liked the Jets, they were not my team either, although I am not sure why the Jets are part of this comment, they went to Phoenix.

 

[Hawker14]

the place is not half empty more lik a 1/4. (must be a lot of ex-whale and jet fans posting today)

what are you implying ?

 

[Sotnos]

This is not even deserving of a response since it seems you're only looking to start an argument, but hey, I have time...

The fact that TBay won the cup means what exactly? The fact that Jay Feaster the GM of the Bolts could barely give tickets away until the team started winning in January.

I assume you have info to back this up? Let's look at the attendance to start with -
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004
Tampa average 17,820

Pretty hard to get attendance over 90% if you couldn't even "give away" tickets before January. That is not to mention that Tampa's attendance has been rising for each of the past 5 years.

To further prove my point that the state of Florida does not support hockey, is that in early November I found myself vacationing just outside of Tampa Bay, and every morning I eargerly checked the Tampa Bay Tribune for anything to do with the lockout or any news in general about hockey, do you know what I found? A tiny three line blurb about "no talks planned, and day 35 of the lockout". This, in the city that won that thing called the Stanley Cup!

You mean there was nothing to report, so they didn't report anything? Wow, contract them. Seriously, WHAT do you expect the beat writer to write about when there's nothing going on?

(It's the Tampa Tribune btw, no "Bay" in there.)

If you're going to insult teams and their fanbases, you really should get your facts straight first.

 

[Master Shake*]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

He should be happy with the 3 or 4 million he will make in salary alone. Trying to squeeze penny's out of a market change would be damn greedy and would show no loyalty to the fans or team.

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

I really appreciate how you express yourself and back up your very intelligent arguments with one word answers. You don't have to agree with what I think, but atleast take a minute and give me your reasons as to why you feel I am reaching. I don't think that is too much to ask. I knew I would get comments like that when I wrote this thread, but I was hoping to hear why people disagreed.

Why do I think it is reaching?

NHL players who make significant amounts of money in product endorsement deals are few and far between and how much they make isn't based on who they play for, it's based on how much of a star they are.

If Rick Nash becomes a superstar, he can make just as much in Columbus as he can anywhere else, but he would have to become the next Gretzky before he got anything significant.

It's pretty much a moot point in my mind.

I think you were just "reaching" for a reason to bash the new CBA.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

The fact that Jay Feaster the GM of the Bolts could barely give tickets away until the team started winning in January.

 

[Mess]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

I support the point that you are trying to make here..

The NHL will have more of a AHL feel to it .. Meaning more for development then in talent level ..

Big market teams are forced to develop from with in and play the younger players when before they could just throw money at the problem ..

Revenue sharing by nature assisting other teams with the intention again to have am more competitive opponent and bigger challenge on the ice. That however will dry up over time in the form of it we are seeing now .. Sooner or later these smaller markets are going to have to be able to support themselves or hope a big TV deal is in the making like the NFL has to divide up long-term ..

But the clincher might be UFA .. Its dropping to 27-28 according to the latest TSN report .. Many players are just hitting their primes now ..

All things being equal will a Nash stay in Columbus or a Heatley in Atlanta or Bouwmeeter in Florida forever or will the bright lights of big cities lure them away, to either play closer to friends and Family or as you pointed out celebrity status and possible $$$ gains outside of Hockey ..

Does anyone have any doubts the 28 year old Crosby will flee to Montreal his Fav team the earliest chance he gets. ??

This is not a fanbase arguement but a CBA fallout cause and effect as you are suggesting here . .

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them.

Also, what more than anything makes a team popular? Winning.

If or when the Avs have a few sub 0.500 seasons, they won't be as popular as they have been.