Speculation: NJ Offseason Thread Part VI

[Stephen Gionta]

Cammalleri - Henrique - Stempniak
Boucher - Zajac - Palmieri
Elias - Zacha - Eriksson
Kalinin - Helm - DSP
Extra: Josefson, Gionta
In minors ready to be called up:
Blandisi, Pietila, Wood, Lappin, Sislo


Fowler - Larsson
Greene - Severson
Moore - Schlemko
Extra: Helgeson
In minors ready to be called up:
Santini, Mozik, Auvitu

Schneider
Wedgewood



How did we get Fowler? No idea lol. Just fleece Anaheim again like we did a year ago.
Merrill + 41st overall + 2017 2nd (BOS) + 2018 1st NJ + Kinkaid

 

[JBthree24]

I'm gonna get assaulted for this, and I love Schneider... But I continue to question the fit of this goalie on this team right now. This is a guy that could net this team so much... and on the pace they are on (which I have no issue with), when the are ready to be competitive he is going to be 33, 34,35 years old. In the meantime he is literally hurting the rebuild as 3-4 meaningless wins costs this team 4-5 very valuable draft slots - slots that by themselves are worth high draft picks via a trade up!

It's a shame that the timing did not matchup better but he is such a valuable asset that I fear the team is wasting not only his prime years but their chief asset by not capitalizing. Am I really alone on this?

Yes, you are one of the few. Sadly.

 

[NJRockinRoller]

Last year was Schneider's second year as a full-time NHL starter. He has many years of good hockey ahead of him.

Executing a plan such as the one you proposed would put us in Edmonton territory. I'm not interested in filling a team with flighty, skilled players (high picks) that isn't supported by a good D core and a top goaltender.

Build from the net out.

I understand that and as I said I respect 35. Agree with your statements. Nobody said, however, you need to acquire "flighty skill players" however. If Schneider was indeed on the market you would have your pick of many attractive options. But I get it. You just wonder if at the end of this rebuild this team is going to be looking for a goalie.

 

[ghdi]

I'm gonna get assaulted for this, and I love Schneider... But I continue to question the fit of this goalie on this team right now. This is a guy that could net this team so much... and on the pace they are on (which I have no issue with), when the are ready to be competitive he is going to be 33, 34,35 years old. In the meantime he is literally hurting the rebuild as 3-4 meaningless wins costs this team 4-5 very valuable draft slots - slots that by themselves are worth high draft picks via a trade up!

not deserved of an assault, but this is extremely myopic

There is no player in the locker room right now that thinks like you do. Those wins mean something to those guys. Draft slots do not. They play to win the game. And whats wrong with 33-35 for a goaltender? In a lot of cases those are prime years for that position. He's got barely any mileage on him right now. Schneider's style alone will allow him to play at a high level well into his 30s.

Trading Schneider now is not the answer. Patience is. Yes, it may take 2-3 years, maybe 4-5 before we get back to consistent contending and there may come a time if we make mistakes in the rebuild that trading him will be the answer. Its not even close to it yet though.

You're also forgetting. We just drafted an extremely highly touted goaltender last year who is projecting to be good in the NHL but is a few years away from that being a certainty. We have time to run with Schneider. Tanking or accepting losses to improve draft position is not the answer. Its one thing if we just stink and end up there. Perhaps Blackwood becomes the impetus to move Schneider sooner rather than later. There's just no reason to do it now.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I understand that and as I said I respect 35. Agree with your statements. Nobody said, however, you need to acquire "flighty skill players" however. If Schneider was indeed on the market you would have your pick of many attractive options. But I get it. You just wonder if at the end of this rebuild this team is going to be looking for a goalie.

The “flighty skill players†would be who would be selected with the high picks you’re suggesting we tank for. I wasn’t talking about what Schneider would return.. which, I would assume, would be a high draft pick and a high-rated prospect.

Regardless, you get the gist. Trading Schneider is insanely.. not even ridiculously.. counter-productive.

If Cory plays as long as I think he can.. at an elite level.. the New Jersey Devils will have had only two starting goaltenders over the span of nearly 3 decades. Two elite goalies… 29 teams would literally KILL for that.

Why **** it up? I’ll repeat, build from the net out.

 

[NJRockinRoller]

not deserved of an assault, but this is extremely myopic

There is no player in the locker room right now that thinks like you do. Those wins mean something to those guys. Draft slots do not. They play to win the game. And whats wrong with 33-35 for a goaltender? In a lot of cases those are prime years for that position. He's got barely any mileage on him right now. Schneider's style alone will allow him to play at a high level well into his 30s.

Trading Schneider now is not the answer. Patience is. Yes, it may take 2-3 years, maybe 4-5 before we get back to consistent contending and there may come a time if we make mistakes in the rebuild that trading him will be the answer. Its not even close to it yet though.

You're also forgetting. We just drafted an extremely highly touted goaltender last year who is projecting to be good in the NHL. We have time.

You may be correct... matter of fact you probably are. But you do whats best for the franchise, not what the players want. There are no players on this team who command that kind of gravitas anyway. Schneider is the only one.

But I digress. I don't even disagree. It's just a thought. Because clearly they are not spending this year - they're more likely to be picking 1 than 30 next year, that we all can agree on. So next offseason he's 31. And from there it will just be interesting to see where it all goes. You've seen where the Rangers are with Lundqvist right now - but they were CLOSE in his years. Just didn't get there.

 

[FooteBahl]

Nah. It becomes more of a possibility that we do, but its by no means "need" at 11. We still have a 2nd and 2 3rds to draft D with.

Lets not forget we just brought in Auvitu + we still have Santini and Jacobs and can potentially add someone via UFA.

We could still very easily draft one of the forwards (Keller, Jost, etc.) if Severson is dealt. It all depends who is on the board. Maybe it gives more weight to taking a Bean or McAvoy at 11 if one of the bigger D names aren't available (Juolevi, Chychrun, Sergachev), but we're still going to need potential top line forward talent going forward even if we acquire someone of that ilk via a Severson trade.

Mozik is still around also right?

 

[SeidoN]

Lucic is going to free agency

****ing hate him but would sign him

 

[OmNomNom]

Lucic is going to free agency

****ing hate him but would sign him

does anyone think we have a chance to snag him? is he willing to go east or is that too far from home for him?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

don't want Lucic for what he'll garner on the open market

his type of game does not age well in the NHL

 

[Classic Devil]

does anyone think we have a chance to snag him? is he willing to go east or is that too far from home for him?

Lucic may not be that old, but at 28 it's hard to say how long his body will sustain his style of play. I'm not opposed to signing him necessarily, but I'd be very reluctant to sign him to a contract longer than, say, 4 years - and even that has the potential to be an anchor within 2 seasons.

 

[SeidoN]

don't want Lucic for what he'll garner on the open market

his type of game does not age well in the NHL

fair point

 

[JBthree24]

No lucic

 

[217 Forever]

Last year was Schneider's second year as a full-time NHL starter. He has many years of good hockey ahead of him.

Executing a plan such as the one you proposed would put us in Edmonton territory. I'm not interested in filling a team with flighty, skilled players (high picks) that isn't supported by a good D core and a top goaltender.

Build from the net out.

What was the last team to win the Cup with that philosophy?

Tim Thomas fell in the Bruins lap. Jonathan Quick MAYBE, but he wasn't a 1st round draft pick or acquired after he came to prominence. Crawford? Nope. Murray? Obviously not. I'm talking about an actual organizational decision to secure an elite goalie and then build around him.

Sorry folks but it just isn't done that way anymore in the NHL. You need to acquire talent up front and one stud defenseman first if you want to win in today's NHL, and before everyone says "what about Dallas", I don't obviously mean that you completely neglect goaltending. Just that it shouldn't be priority number one (building from the net out as it were).

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What was the last team to win the Cup with that philosophy?

Tim Thomas fell in the Bruins lap. Jonathan Quick MAYBE, but he wasn't a 1st round draft pick or acquired after he came to prominence. Crawford? Nope. Murray? Obviously not. I'm talking about an actual organizational decision to secure an elite goalie and then build around him.

Sorry folks but it just isn't done that way anymore in the NHL. You need to acquire talent up front and one stud defenseman first if you want to win in today's NHL, and before everyone says "what about Dallas", I don't obviously mean that you completely neglect goaltending. Just that it shouldn't be priority number one (building from the net out as it were).

not that I disagree with you, but trading Schneider is not the right thing that this organization should do.

I do think we need to go balls to the wall getting forwards, though

 

[OmNomNom]

What was the last team to win the Cup with that philosophy?

Tim Thomas fell in the Bruins lap. Jonathan Quick MAYBE, but he wasn't a 1st round draft pick or acquired after he came to prominence. Crawford? Nope. Murray? Obviously not. I'm talking about an actual organizational decision to secure an elite goalie and then build around him.

Sorry folks but it just isn't done that way anymore in the NHL. You need to acquire talent up front and one stud defenseman first if you want to win in today's NHL, and before everyone says "what about Dallas", I don't obviously mean that you completely neglect goaltending. Just that it shouldn't be priority number one (building from the net out as it were).

tearing it down isn't the only way. if zacha develops and we get another good producing forward and a solid bottom 6 (our mid-6 becomes our bottom 6), and maybe a piece for defense, BOOM, suddenly, we're competitive. we get a meh goalie and we take a big step back

 

[217 Forever]

not that I disagree with you, but trading Schneider is not the right thing that this organization should do.

I do think we need to go balls to the wall getting forwards, though

I understand the fear people have of losing the stability of a guy like Schneider, and it would have to be the right deal obviously (top tier Dman or cost-controlled forward under 30, etc), but I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of moving him completely out of hand.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

What was the last team to win the Cup with that philosophy?

Tim Thomas fell in the Bruins lap. Jonathan Quick MAYBE, but he wasn't a 1st round draft pick or acquired after he came to prominence. Crawford? Nope. Murray? Obviously not. I'm talking about an actual organizational decision to secure an elite goalie and then build around him.

Sorry folks but it just isn't done that way anymore in the NHL. You need to acquire talent up front and one stud defenseman first if you want to win in today's NHL, and before everyone says "what about Dallas", I don't obviously mean that you completely neglect goaltending. Just that it shouldn't be priority number one (building from the net out as it were).

I’m not saying that’s the only way to win – as you pointed out, the most recent Cup winners haven’t necessarily used that model – but, if we have a top-5 goaltender and some solid pieces on D, why not stick with it and try to win that way?

The return we’d get for Schneider would PALE in comparison to him as far as impact on the team performance. We’d likely get futures, and, all of the sudden, we’re back into the waiting game.

As others have pointed out, I’d much rather stick with this model, and go all-in on acquiring/signing higher-end forwards to round out the team.

 

[217 Forever]

I’m not saying that’s the only way to win – as you pointed out, the most recent Cup winners haven’t necessarily used that model – but, if we have a top-5 goaltender and some solid pieces on D, why not stick with it and try to win that way?

The return we’d get for Schneider would PALE in comparison to him as far as impact on the team performance. We’d likely get futures, and, all of the sudden, we’re back into the waiting game.

As others have pointed out, I’d much rather stick with this model, and go all-in on acquiring/signing higher-end forwards to round out the team.

We said more or less the same thing, just from different angles. I said it had to be the right deal, and prospects/picks (futures) wouldn't be the right deal.

 

[Brodeur]

I wonder if ANA would be interested in a Fowler/Severson swap. Anaheim likes Fowler the player but he's on a contract that complicates their cap. Ducks get a young offense defenseman with skill comparable to Fowler, but is you get and MUCH cheaper. They'll get immediate cap relief while replacing Fowler with essentially a younger version of himself.

We obviously get the superior player on a deal that's friendly to us. We might have to add but that might be the basis for a deal.

Anaheim's in a tough/weird spot. They gave Bieksa a NMC, so he would take up a mandatory spot. They can protect 7 forwards and 3 D, or 8 players total.

They could take one more run with Fowler and then move a D right before the expansion draft. But it wouldn't shock me to see them move him this weekend if they think Shea Theodore can handle the minutes.

I'm not sure if they'd have a ton of interest in Severson if only because they run into the same protection issues. Buffalo dangling the #8 pick might be more what would make sense for Anaheim.

 

[NJDevs26]

Lucic may not be that old, but at 28 it's hard to say how long his body will sustain his style of play. I'm not opposed to signing him necessarily, but I'd be very reluctant to sign him to a contract longer than, say, 4 years - and even that has the potential to be an anchor within 2 seasons.

I honestly thought Lucic WAS quite a bit older than 28

But yeah guys like that do tend to crash over the hill quickly.

 

[Bleedred]

Lucic was overpaid on his last deal when it was signed, he'll probably get more on this deal and he really shouldn't get more at all.

 

[NJDevs26]

Sorry folks but it just isn't done that way anymore in the NHL. You need to acquire talent up front and one stud defenseman first if you want to win in today's NHL, and before everyone says "what about Dallas", I don't obviously mean that you completely neglect goaltending. Just that it shouldn't be priority number one (building from the net out as it were).

You would hope they have the stud D in Larsson or maybe Sevs down the road if he isn't already on the way out. As far as the talent up front, they have $30 million or so in cap space, they don't need to sacrifice Cory to acquire forwards. And if you are gonna trade Cory then trade Greene/Cammi too, either go all in on rebuilding (which they really can't afford to do right now after four playoffless seasons going on five) or continue the process that got started last year in building around the core that's already here.

And the Bruins/Kings did build around defense first (whether it's via a stud D or a stud goalie is kind of irrelevant IMO) and acquired the forwards later.

 

[Bleedred]

Maybe we should trade Cory and let Kinkaid be the starter. Remember when that was an actual thought around here?

I know 217 didn't say that's what we should do, I just think that idea was hilarious when looking back on it. Especially with how bad he was last year.

 

[Bleedred]

I honestly thought Lucic WAS quite a bit older than 28

But yeah guys like that do tend to crash over the hill quickly.

He seems like he's 30-32. He's been in the league for quite a while for a 28 year old.

I always associate him with being closer to Clarkson or Parise's age.