Player Discussion: Niku

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not saying I agree fully but 10-2-1 in November is going to be a part of it.

Yes it is. But Niku should have been here in October. Then there are all the injuries we have had to Dmen. There has been plenty of opportunity to call up Niku.

Kulikov did not look good leaving yesterday. Unfortunately, Niku looked somewhat similar leaving his last game.

 

[KingBogo]

Maurice was very reluctant to use Niku when he was up last year despite the fact that he improved steadily during that time. The little time he got to play with Jets in TC and his lone game in the NHL this year he appeared quite ready for the NHL. He was sent down anyway. He has been dominant in the AHL all year but has not been called up despite our patched together D corps and several injuries to D men.

What in that picture suggests that Maurice is prepared to give him a chance?

Sorry I just don't buy into the coach/GM/organization hates him so he won't play him arguments. The Jets have drafted and developed the majority of their roster in house. Some have been fast tracked, some have seasoned in the minors and fans have complained about how everyone has been used at some point. To date not a single prospect has slipped through and became a notable player elsewhere. For now I'll buy into Vincent's comments from a couple weeks back where they were content to let Niku develop in the minors while getting big minutes.

 

[jetsfan15]

Is there an update on Niku’s injury?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sorry I just don't buy into the coach/GM/organization hates him so he won't play him arguments. The Jets have drafted and developed the majority of their roster in house. Some have been fast tracked, some have seasoned in the minors and fans have complained about how everyone has been used at some point. To date not a single prospect has slipped through and became a notable player elsewhere. For now I'll buy into Vincent's comments from a couple weeks back where they were content to let Niku develop in the minors while getting big minutes.

That's what Vincent says. It is Maurice who picks the roster. I'm not suggesting some personal vendetta. Maurice does not like his game. It isn't that he thinks it needs some tweaks here and there. He fundamentally does not like it. I have no idea why. Either that or he perceives an attitude issue of considerable importance.

I will change that opinion when Maurice does something differently.

 

[KingBogo]

That's what Vincent says. It is Maurice who picks the roster. I'm not suggesting some personal vendetta. Maurice does not like his game. It isn't that he thinks it needs some tweaks here and there. He fundamentally does not like it. I have no idea why. Either that or he perceives an attitude issue of considerable importance.

I will change that opinion when Maurice does something differently.

Has Maurice ever said he doesn't like Niku's game? And when has the organization not have all there key members stay consistent on the same speaking notes? I posted my beliefs on what areas I think Niku has to develop before he graduates to the NHL a page or 2 back and I actually believe he will be an important player for us while Maurice is the head coach.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Has Maurice ever said he doesn't like Niku's game? And when has the organization not have all there key members stay consistent on the same speaking notes? I posted my beliefs on what areas I think Niku has to develop before he graduates to the NHL a page or 2 back and I actually believe he will be an important player for us while Maurice is the head coach.

Hope you are right KB. I think he should be that now. We'll see. I wouldn't believe Maurice if he was saying the same thing you are. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Hope you are right KB. I think he should be that now. We'll see. I wouldn't believe Maurice if he was saying the same thing you are. Actions speak louder than words.

And the number of so called busts that have turned out for Mo and vice versa is in Mo’s favour.

 

[voyageur]

Sami really needs to stay healthy...

He's kind of having the season Tucker Poolman did last year, where he can't get in the rythym to get the call.

He's got to stay healthy for a stretch now, that sure looked like a shoulder injury, hopefully not serious.

No Kulikov, no Beaulieu tonight, and it shows a bit. No Niku, no Stanley either, that is a lot of depth tested early in the season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

And the number of so called busts that have turned out for Mo and vice versa is in Mo’s favour.

Yes. That has nothing to do with Niku. I'm not trying to build a case to prove that Maurice is terrible at developing young players. He has had a lot of success. That doesn't mean that he always gets it right.

I'm talking about Niku only here. I don't like the way Niku is being handled.

 

[Weezeric]

Yes. That has nothing to do with Niku. I'm not trying to build a case to prove that Maurice is terrible at developing young players. He has had a lot of success. That doesn't mean that he always gets it right.

I'm talking about Niku only here. I don't like the way Niku is being handled.

What about Niku’s play last season convinces you he deserved a spot on the opening roster? Stats wise, he was one of the worst defenceman in the NHL last year. Even worse than the Bitetto’s and the Sbisa’s.

There are plenty of defenceman who are poor in their own zone that make up for it by moving the puck and playing in the offensive zone. Niku has not proven to be able to do that in the NHL. I see nothing wrong with the coaching staff letting him work on his deficiencies in the AHL.

 

[sipowicz]

Yes. That has nothing to do with Niku. I'm not trying to build a case to prove that Maurice is terrible at developing young players. He has had a lot of success. That doesn't mean that he always gets it right.

I'm talking about Niku only here. I don't like the way Niku is being handled.

We're talking about Niku like he is some elite NHL D man, guy was marginal in his own end when he played regularly last season, sure the guy has the ability to move the puck out his own end but that doesn't make the guy an NHL D man!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What about Niku’s play last season convinces you he deserved a spot on the opening roster? Stats wise, he was one of the worst defenceman in the NHL last year. Even worse than the Bitetto’s and the Sbisa’s.

There are plenty of defenceman who are poor in their own zone that make up for it by moving the puck and playing in the offensive zone. Niku has not proven to be able to do that in the NHL. I see nothing wrong with the coaching staff letting him work on his deficiencies in the AHL.

Last season? The difference between his play when he was first called up and his play at the end. The problem at first was just that he was too hesitant. He gradually engaged more and was much better at the end than at the beginning. If all you do is look at the total you won't see anything very good. But what does last season have to do with it anyway?

He looked night and day better this season - in a very small sample. But enough to have kept him with the Jets considering the D corps we started with.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We're talking about Niku like he is some elite NHL D man, guy was marginal in his own end when he played regularly last season, sure the guy has the ability to move the puck out his own end but that doesn't make the guy an NHL D man!

Again - last season is over.

 

[Gotaf7]

I am willing to let the people in charge of developing players decide when or if Niku plays in the NHL. Not one player that didn’t make the move to the NHL from the Moose and decided the grass was greener elsewhere has gone on to being a good NHL player elsewhere, not one. Maybe the organization is better at evaluating talent than HFB posters.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I am willing to let the people in charge of developing players decide when or if Niku plays in the NHL. Not one player that didn’t make the move to the NHL from the Moose and decided the grass was greener elsewhere has gone on to being a good NHL player elsewhere, not one. Maybe the organization is better at evaluating talent than HFB posters.

The HFB Player Utilization Committee decided long ago that Sheif and Wheeler needed to be split up. Now that it has come to pass, see how much better the team is?

 

[JetsUK]

I am willing to let the people in charge of developing players decide when or if Niku plays in the NHL. Not one player that didn’t make the move to the NHL from the Moose and decided the grass was greener elsewhere has gone on to being a good NHL player elsewhere, not one. Maybe the organization is better at evaluating talent than HFB posters.

This claim comes up often. It assumes that the development of prospects is linear, equal, and perfect, and that none of these prospects who did not succeed elsewhere were adversely affected by their development within the Jets' system. I'm not sure we can assume that's true.

 

[lomiller1]

Has Maurice ever said he doesn't like Niku's game? And when has the organization not have all there key members stay consistent on the same speaking notes?

Don’t put a lot of stock in what PM says in public, much of it is misleading or outright BS.

His MO as a coach is that skill is something he’s only interested in for the players at the top of the roster. He only wants 2-4 skilled forwards and 1-2 skilled D-men. If a young skilled player doesn’t capture one of these spots then he has no particular interest in them. He wants to fill out the rest of the roster with physical players and grinders.

We’ve seen the same issue with basically every young skilled player coming into the lineup. Morrissey, Conner, Ehlers, Roslovic, even Scheifely were clearly ready for the NHL or for top roles in the NHL but PM would only use them in limited roles or wouldn’t put them in the lineup at all until injuries forced his hand. Hell, even Byfuglien had to overcome this. This isn’t a pattern that started here either, it’s been a complaint about him everywhere he’s been. It’s a major reason why none of the teams he’s coached ever developed real depth. Good, but not elite talents end up being shelved in favor of the Bitettos of the world and never get the NHL ice time they need to develop into good NHL players.

If the pattern holds then PM simply will not play Niku unless there is a season ending injury to Morrissey. Even if that happens, he’s not quite good enough to step into a top pairing role, so he’ll fail and be relegated to the press box.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Cant play if he cant stay healthy. Conspiracy theories are great but none here.. Dude just can't stay healthy.

 

[Positive]

Don’t put a lot of stock in what PM says in public, much of it is misleading or outright BS.

His MO as a coach is that skill is something he’s only interested in for the players at the top of the roster. He only wants 2-4 skilled forwards and 1-2 skilled D-men. If a young skilled player doesn’t capture one of these spots then he has no particular interest in them. He wants to fill out the rest of the roster with physical players and grinders.

We’ve seen the same issue with basically every young skilled player coming into the lineup. Morrissey, Conner, Ehlers, Roslovic, even Scheifely were clearly ready for the NHL or for top roles in the NHL but PM would only use them in limited roles or wouldn’t put them in the lineup at all until injuries forced his hand. Hell, even Byfuglien had to overcome this. This isn’t a pattern that started here either, it’s been a complaint about him everywhere he’s been. It’s a major reason why none of the teams he’s coached ever developed real depth. Good, but not elite talents end up being shelved in favor of the Bitettos of the world and never get the NHL ice time they need to develop into good NHL players.

If the pattern holds then PM simply will not play Niku unless there is a season ending injury to Morrissey. Even if that happens, he’s not quite good enough to step into a top pairing role, so he’ll fail and be relegated to the press box.

I don't know if that's true. Morrissey only spent 1 season the AHL before hitting the roster full time and averaging 19 minutes a game for his first season. After finishing up one year with the Mooseheads, Ehlers went to the big club next year on the 2nd line averaging 16+ minutes a game. Scheifele had to toil with the Colts for a few years, but that was when Claude Noel was coach, not Maurice, and honestly he needed the time to fill out and become stronger on his skates. By the time Maurice took over Scheif was getting 18+ minutes a game.

I don't even know why you bring up Byfuglien; he's been a member of the franchise longer than Maurice has, and his role as #1 D has not changed (except for this year of course), if anything he's been leaned on more.

 

[DRW204]

I don't know if that's true. Morrissey only spent 1 season the AHL before hitting the roster full time and averaging 19 minutes a game for his first season. After finishing up one year with the Mooseheads, Ehlers went to the big club next year on the 2nd line averaging 16+ minutes a game. Scheifele had to toil with the Colts for a few years, but that was when Claude Noel was coach, not Maurice, and honestly he needed the time to fill out and become stronger on his skates. By the time Maurice took over Scheif was getting 18+ minutes a game.

I don't even know why you bring up Byfuglien; he's been a member of the franchise longer than Maurice has, and his role as #1 D has not changed (except for this year of course), if anything he's been leaned on more.

Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL IIRC b/c he was 19.

Scheifele - don't want to necessarily speak for the poster - but i think he's referencing the fact that he didn't get the 1C role until Little's injury against TBL during the '15-16 year. Same thing with Connor - wasn't until Perreault got hurt early in 17-18 that he got called up.

i disagree on Roslovic he got a shot in the top 6 last year (again due to injury) and IMO i don't think he was that great, so i dont have problems him starting in the bottom 6 this year. but since he's gotten the top 6 opportunity he's played really well.

 

[KingBogo]

Don’t put a lot of stock in what PM says in public, much of it is misleading or outright BS.

His MO as a coach is that skill is something he’s only interested in for the players at the top of the roster. He only wants 2-4 skilled forwards and 1-2 skilled D-men. If a young skilled player doesn’t capture one of these spots then he has no particular interest in them. He wants to fill out the rest of the roster with physical players and grinders.

We’ve seen the same issue with basically every young skilled player coming into the lineup. Morrissey, Conner, Ehlers, Roslovic, even Scheifely were clearly ready for the NHL or for top roles in the NHL but PM would only use them in limited roles or wouldn’t put them in the lineup at all until injuries forced his hand. Hell, even Byfuglien had to overcome this. This isn’t a pattern that started here either, it’s been a complaint about him everywhere he’s been. It’s a major reason why none of the teams he’s coached ever developed real depth. Good, but not elite talents end up being shelved in favor of the Bitettos of the world and never get the NHL ice time they need to develop into good NHL players.

If the pattern holds then PM simply will not play Niku unless there is a season ending injury to Morrissey. Even if that happens, he’s not quite good enough to step into a top pairing role, so he’ll fail and be relegated to the press box.

Overall the organization has done a tremendous job developing talent and probably gives bigger roles earlier than a large majority of teams. All the players you mentioned were developed well and have become important players. If the pattern holds Niku will be in the lineup at some point and do very well. Some will say it should have happened earlier. Some will be okay with the uneven pace of development from one player to the next.

 

[KingBogo]

Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL IIRC b/c he was 19.

Scheifele - don't want to necessarily speak for the poster - but i think he's referencing the fact that he didn't get the 1C role until Little's injury against TBL during the '15-16 year. Same thing with Connor - wasn't until Perreault got hurt early in 17-18 that he got called up.

i disagree on Roslovic he got a shot in the top 6 last year (again due to injury) and IMO i don't think he was that great, so i dont have problems him starting in the bottom 6 this year. but since he's gotten the top 6 opportunity he's played really well.

In terms of Scheifele and Connor that is good development. Players work on their game and when opportunity presents itself they are ready to take the next steps. This is a good thing not a bad thing. Sometimes a player might be ready a little earlier then he gets it sometimes opportunity presents itself too early and a player isn't ready and has to step back. Working with players to develop their game is what is important.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This claim comes up often. It assumes that the development of prospects is linear, equal, and perfect, and that none of these prospects who did not succeed elsewhere were adversely affected by their development within the Jets' system. I'm not sure we can assume that's true.

And we can't assume it is not true. It is unprovable. We will each believe what we want to believe because there isn't anything else.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Cant play if he cant stay healthy. Conspiracy theories are great but none here.. Dude just can't stay healthy.

WTF are you talking about? He was in a car accident during TC. Now he has picked up an injury after playing 17 games this season. We don't know anything about how serious it is or how long it will keep him out. Last year he played 50 games. It would have been more except he was press boxed. How many games did he lose to injury? The year before he played 77 games. Couldn't have lost many to injury there.

Hockey players get injured. Defensemen get injured more. There is no unusual injury pattern here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Overall the organization has done a tremendous job developing talent and probably gives bigger roles earlier than a large majority of teams. All the players you mentioned were developed well and have become important players. If the pattern holds Niku will be in the lineup at some point and do very well. Some will say it should have happened earlier. Some will be okay with the uneven pace of development from one player to the next.

I agree with the bold. But that doesn't mean there haven't been exceptions to that.