Player Discussion: Niku
- Thread starter Hunter368
- Start date
- Status
Even if stagnating is such a thing, players can only stagnate for a limited time within an organization. After this season Niku's ELC is over and he becomes a RFA. Assuming the Jets qualify him they keep his rights but he is still a free agent and can sign with any team in the league by means of an offer sheet. The Jets would be able to match the offer or accept the compensation set out in the CBA. If the Jets match, or sign him without an offer sheet he can no longer be sent to the Moose without clearing waivers. If he is waived every team in the league can put a claim in on him and potentially get him for free. By next season Niku will either be on the Jets or be given an opportunity with another organization. My guess as I've already stated is the Jets see Niku as part of their future but are taking the opportunity to develop the defensive part of his game in the AHL while they can. Since they are mostly having a successful season to date this has taken the pressure off having to bring him up prior to them being comfortable doing so.
Upperdeckjet
Registered User
- Dec 14, 2011
- 813
- 1,131
No.no, we get that Niku is not a Norris candidate. Hell, I'm not convinced he's NHL material. Also his play thus far may not even warrant a trial spot on the top 4.
What I'm saying and I think other hopeful Jet fans are saying is that here is his chance. If healthy, let's see what you can do. We will get no sense of his worth as a 6/7.I want to see him play some responsible minutes so we can give an educated stance on what he has to offer. We don't have to commit to anything, just a look.
Gabe Kupari
Registered User
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,393
- 29,209
Have I specified a path to ruining a player? Does it matter how his confidence is destroyed as long as it is destroyed? What about a player being required to win a role that doesn't suit his strengths or abilities?
The whole concept of the ruined player is impossible to prove. It is pretty widely accepted as real though. With something as nebulous as that, I don't think you can categorize it like that. Each player needs to be seen individually.
We needed a D man a couple of days ago. Does Niku get called up? No. We get Cameron Schilling, an established AHL career player.
Niku was very tentative when called up last year. But people seem to want to ignore the fact that he was much better by the end of the season. He was much better this season, despite his injury.
He has been much better in the AHL this season. Yet, despite the Jets having a very weak D corps, patched together with rejects, he can't break into the lineup. Despite that very weak to begin with D corps having one injury after another, he can't get a look. But we are to believe the organization values him highly.
He is 23 YO, in the last year of his ELC. It doesn't appear that he is going to be given any chance this year. It really doesn't. We have Sbisa, Bitetto and Dahlstrom in the lineup and Cameron Schilling is our 7th D man right now. I expect him to play in Europe next year, where he will be very successful. If you were him would you want to play in the AHL again next year?
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 9,467
- 8,157
Niku is injured bro. He got injured again. I know you like to find a hill to fight on, I have the same traits, but the battle you are making is poorly timed.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,393
- 29,209
Yes, I know he is injured. I forgot about all it when I thought of Schilling being called up. Good catch.
I don't think we have been given any timeline for his return. With Kuli being out for a longer stretch Niku might get his chance when he gets back to health. It sounds like Beaulieu is close though. Him coming back might keep Niku in the AHL.
I admit, I am a little PO'ed, and frustrated, that Niku is not getting a really good chance with as weak as our D corps has been all of this year. If he can't break in now when will it ever be the right time?
Next year Niku will no longer be waiver exempt so by then he is either on the roster or he is likely with another organization. The Jets have been one of the hottest teams in the league over the last month so it is doubtful he would have added more wins to the win column. For now playing big minutes for the Moose seems like a better option for his long term development.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,393
- 29,209
If the alternative is the Jets press box, yes. Otherwise he would be better playing against better competition.
I agree he wouldn't likely have contributed many, if any, more pts in the standings lately. He might have earlier in the season. Or not.
My concern for Niku is only partly about the Jets record to date. It is also about the sustainability of their winning. Mostly, it is about Niku making it in the NHL. As it stands right now, it looks to me like he needs at least 1 more D man to be injured, and that before any of the currently injured return.
There are 2 ways of looking at Niku failing to make a weak D corps. 1) The obvious of if he isn't better than any of these guys, he doesn't have a chance. 2) Our D corps is too weak to be able to work an inexperienced player in. I hope Maurice is just thinking of #2 but it looks to me like he sees #1.
My expectations for Niku to ever be a positive contributor to the Jets are just about at rock bottom. And that is a waste. IMO
Last edited:
I don't know if you watched Maurice's interview today, but he talked about the defense play at the 7:30 mark, primarily the defense boxing players out, clearing the front of the net and competing hard and how Helly likes that. He talked about how that gives Helly a 1/2 second more to see the play and make the save and that is working for him. My take away is that it is likely they don't believe Niku is able to adjust his game to that style at this point in time and prefer to develop him in the minors playing a role he is more suited to.
I also don't sweat players playing in the minors and earning their way up. I have no inside knowledge of the development plan for players and how that is balanced against the need to win now. I just let it play out and have trust in the organization based on how well they have developed so many of their own young core. As an add on to that he made some real interesting comments about Rosie's development this season later in the interview.
I know a lot of people believe Maurice just blows smoke, and there is some of that in he will not throw players under the bus. But he also shares tidbits of what the organization is doing if you listen for them.
Based on what information other being in the minors? Petan just got sent to the minors in Toronto and apparently Dubas loves him.
rubikscube
Registered User
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,393
- 29,209
I can't argue with that KB. If nothing else, trusting the team's decisions leads to less angst.
I choose to listen to Maurice only very rarely because he does blow a lot of smoke. That just sets me up for more frustration. That doesn't mean there are no nuggets mixed in with the smoke.
I'm disappointed because we started the year really needing defence and Niku was ready (IMO, based on the very small sample we got due to his car accident and the improvement he had shown by the end of last year).
Not bringing a player up until he is ready is a good way to develop players but I think there is a fine line between waiting long enough and waiting too long. In this case, I think they are waiting too long at the risk of ruining a good player.
What you describe Maurice as saying is a coach saying he is choosing players based on the style of play he wants. Him wanting it because his goalie likes that style in front of him doesn't change the fact that it is his choice of a style. Alternately a coach can choose the best players he has available and coach his team to get the best results out of those players abilities. I instinctively prefer the second approach. Maybe that's why I'm not a coach.
It is hard to argue against the results Maurice is getting out of the Jets so far this season. He is riding his goaltender's outstanding performance. But if his goalie's outstanding play is a result of Maurice's coaching then he is earning it.
What effect, if any, that is having on Niku's career is impossible to know at this point. What the long term effect on the Jets will be is also impossible to say with any certainty.
Would Helle be some decrement less successful with Niku in front of him? Would Niku's offense offset any loss in Helle's play? Who's to say? What we know is that the Jets are overachieving with the way it is being done so far.
who actually watched a good amount AHL games and has a qualified opinion on Niku, notably his game in the Dzone? There's not much by the way of underlying stats from his AHL games i can find..
I've seen all but a couple of the games he's played in, with a another few coming up. Hard to compare because of the way AHL hockey is played, generally less structured, regardless of the systems ostensibly being played, but I've thought for a while that the presumed awfulness of his D game is vastly overstated, and nothing I've seen this year (or in TC/preseason) changes that. He's not a box-out type of player but he uses his body and stick well to make quick plays off the boards and intercept puck and player traffic, anticipates play effectively and his top-end mobility and IQ help make him an excellent transition player, either through passing or on the rush. Nothing I've ever seen from him, including his WJC play, has suggested that he's got some fatal flaw that means he won't be up to the job of defending at a high level.
There's no doubt he has given up on a few plays in games I've watched and struggled a bit on the boards -- much more than usual, I'd say -- and I suspect this is down to nagging injury rather than capacity. Several times he's been seen slapping his stick and cursing himself for missing on a check or making a poor play. He's always been more of a Heinola/Pionk/early JMo player, but he has excellent vision and passing and the ability to separate players from pucks and reverse the run of play quickly when he's on. I honestly think he has been more or less injured all year, and I wonder if they just let him recover fully and then look to give him a shot in the NY.
I don't know whether he's a "PoMO-type" defenceman or not, or what that even means really, since players as distinctive as Toby and Pionk and Myers and JMo were all absolutely PoMo Dmen, just as Buff was, and then Trouba, Stu, Chairot, etc. He's definitely an upgrade on two of our pairings, IMO, but groin injuries can mess with all aspects of your game, especially as D or goalie, and can lead to hip problems also. Still hopeful, and they'd be nuts to give up on him I think. Super-talented D, even those with some warts, aren't easy to come by -- just look at how many objectively worse players have had long careers in the NHL (Ceci, Johnson, etc. etc). I do think some here who are quick to write him off or appeal to the Jets system authority -- Look at Petan and Burmi and whomever!!! -- need to watch him play. He's far and away the best D on the team even when he's having a bad game, and often the best D on the ice, period.
Last edited:
- Mar 10, 2010
- 34,895
- 31,337
Nice to hear from a guy who is actually watching him allot this season. thx
I hope he starts seeing some games this year.
Are Samberg and Heinola expected to play for the Jets next year?
Are Samberg and Heinola expected to play for the Jets next year?
Like WTF?
The dreaded day-to-day. It usually means weeks with TNSE.
My opinion is Mo won’t have too many smaller, less physical d on the roster at any one time.
With JMo, Pionk and eventually Heinola, the Jets are past their quota with Niku.
I see him as part of a package for a missing piece at the deadline. He likely should see some showcase NHL games once he’s healthy.
With JMo, Pionk and eventually Heinola, the Jets are past their quota with Niku.
I see him as part of a package for a missing piece at the deadline. He likely should see some showcase NHL games once he’s healthy.
A player, when at this level, having played thousands of games at an elite level, would not be 'ruined' by some percieved mishandling by the Jets. The Jets also want every single player they acquire to become a great NHL'er, that's why you draft or trade for them.
A player who can not cut it when everyone is trying to help them do just that is more an assessment of that player than the system they are in. Now, if the Jets were failing with every player they developed, it would be a different story.
Even players like Chiarot and Roslovic, guys who have taken a bit longer to get it, were afforded the opportunity to play and learn, likely because they are doing the things the organization is asking of them to develop and improve.
Guys like Postma, Klingberg, Machacek, Burmistrov, and Petan probably weren't, and where are they now?
The fact that Niku did not get the call, even as we continued to pick up waiver wire guys speaks more to what he's doing, not what the organization is doing.
Unfortunately, we are not privy to the whole story but with the way this team develops so well, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
Anyone who has had to set a fantasy roster or is involved in hockey pools knows that all teams will label an injury day to day, week to week, or out infinitely or questionable, or some other vague description if they are unsure of how long a player will be out. The Jets/Moose are actually pretty good at giving a time period once the extent of an injury is known.
- Status
