Just going to say it, I'm not a fan of how they conducted the rebuild. This is not a tanking thread by the way. I think some questionable moves have been made since they traded for Kane. I was completely on board with their plan, their stockpiling and their whole rebuild effort until this to be clear.
Let's recap:
Traded Myers and Stafford, Joel Armia, the 25th this year and Brendan Lemieux, for Kane, Bogosian.
Now on paper, it's an alright deal. I believe the biggest issue was the sacrificing of so many young prospects for Kane, while also dealing Myers. Myers is exactly what the Sabres SHOULD have kept over from their good teams. He's shown what he can do with good teams and how instrumental he can be to their success as evidenced by the 2009-2011 seasons in Buffalo and the short stint he had in Winnipeg after being traded. He would be exactly what the Sabres need down the road. I realize most fans will point to Ristolainen as their next savior, and that may very well be true, but wouldn't you rather have both?
Kane is a great young player, but has been very inconsistent in terms of injury and production. He could develop into an elite sniper, or he could top out as a second line winger. Either way, giving up a player like Myers and all of those prospects in this fashion does not signify a smart move for essentially one player. Bogosian is a nice add-on, but he is no Myers. A cornerstone defenseman who is 25 is a hell of a lot more important than what Kane brings.
Now to my next point:
Ryan O'Reilly, McGinn for Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, and the 31st this year.
Yet again, the Sabres sacrifice a developing Zadorov and many more young players for a proven commodity in ROR. Now I'm not saying ROR isn't great. He's a great talent. He just isn't what the Sabres should be going for at this stage. The amount they sacrificed to get him is particularly troubling when Eichel is supposed to be given to keys to the kingdom. If all of last year was for the effort to get Eichel to become young number one, all-star, team-building, saving grace center, would you trade for a number one center and sign him to a 7 year deal for 7.5 million dollars? He's a great player, for sure, but it makes no sense with the way the team WAS rebuilding. Coupled with the trading of Myers, the trading of Zadorov makes this also extremely hard to understand in my opinion. Sacrificed defense for a position that wasn't necessarily a need in the first place, along with three other great prospects. I'll get to all the draft picks in a second.
Lastly, Lehner and Legwand for the 21st overall.
I don't have as much of an issue with this trade as I do the others. Clearly the Sabres needed a goaltender. I believe however, since this was I think the first goalie deal, it was an extreme overpayment. Everyone probably said that at the time, and if it works out for them that's fantastic, but they sacrificed a third pick in the top 31 to do it. (Also I know the Sharks did a similar deal for a young goalie, but I also think the Sharks are in a different situation than the Sabres). It yet agains seems like a rush move to try and make a team happen next season instead of stocking the cupboards. Also interesting was that the Caps selected a goalie at #22 overall. The biggest problem was the amount of teams that needed a goalie all were more cautious with jumping the gun than the Buffalo Sabres. That to me just doesn't sit right. How many here would rather have Legwand and Lehner for the 21st than Talbot, Niemi, Khudobin, Jones, or Lack for the deals they got?
Overall the Sabres acquired:
Lehner
Legwand
Kane
Bogosian
McGinn
O'Reilly
They gave up:
Tyler Myers
Drew Stafford
Nikita Zadorov
Mikhail Grigorenko
JT Compher
Joel Armia
Brendan Lemieux
the 25th (selected as Jack Roslovic)
the 21st (selected as Colin White, but with a goalie selected at 22)
the 31st (selected as Jeremy Roy)
Their defense suffered immensely in the future because of these moves. Their next year's defensive roster could have looked like this on defense:
Zadorov-Myers
Gorges-Ristolainen
McCabe-Pysyk
Weber
Roy
That top 4 certainly looks competitive. It looks downright impressive for the future with Zadorov, Ristolainen and Myers. Then all of the other up and coming players behind it also looks impressive. Pysyk, Roy, McCabe. Weber and Gorges could balance out that core with experienced albeit not very exciting play. It's a solid building block for the future.
Currently it's just a mess, and unless there are some serious FA signings, it's going to stay a mess.
Gorges-Ristolainen
McCabe-Bogosian
Weber-Pysyk
Donovan
Ristolainen is now the number one defender, whether he likes it or not. Whether he can become one or not. In the other scenario, he developed behind Myers. Played second pairing minutes. Now he's playing first line minutes with a defensive partner of Josh Gorges, instead of second line minutes against second-third liners. Bogosian won't contribute any offense from that second pair, the third pair is a crapshoot. It's a mess.
I realize the importance of getting quality players like Kane and ROR, but they set their defense back a long while unless they attract a big name here or move more assets to cover up their own mistakes.
They also gave up the whole idea of trying to bring up young players when they traded away the farm for Kane and ROR. Grigorenko could be busting, he could bust out. Stafford, Lemieux, Compher, Armia, 21st, 25th, 31st in this year's draft is a hell of a price to pay besides Myers and Zadorov.
Overall, I realize they improved up front, but the acquisition of ROR AND Kane for the prices they gave up just doesn't sit right with me. They should have done one of those trades, and let Eichel have the keys to the kingdom. If he's as good as they say he is, he can handle the top line. If he does take over the top line, your second line center is being paid 7.5 million dollars and you gutted your D to do it. In my opinion, signing Niemi instead of Lehner, keeping Zadorov, Myers, Stafford and the multitude of prospects they gave up are worth more than ROR and Kane in the long term. They rushed it, and they did it at the wrong time without even knowing what they're getting from the prospects they have built up for the past three years. Without knowing what will happen with Eichel, without knowing whether Kane will be alright after his surgery, and without knowing what will happen up front without a serviceable defense.
Adding this because I feel it is appropriate:
You're the Chicago Blackhawks in the offseason of 2006-2007. You've got Kane and Toews coming up after you have essentially finished terribly. You've got a solid Duncan Keith, a solid Brent Seabrook, and Dustin Byfuglien kicking around.
Now Keith has been good, he's produced at 30 points this year but he put up only 2 goals. He's older at 23 than Toews and Kane coming in at 18 and 19. Seabrook regressed this year. He's 21 and put up 24 points in 81 games after putting up 31 in 69 the year before. He's got promise but that regression is scary.
But then you look at your forward depth and it is atrocious. You have Havlat who only played 18 games for Ottawa the year before, missed 30 games this season and somehow still led the team in scoring with 57. He's a great talent, but he's often injured. Then you've got a team full of second or third line players. Vrbata put up 41 points over the full season, Tuumo Ruutu has 38 points and he's your 4th highest scorer. Jeff Hamilton is third at 39 points. Smolinski is there with 37 points. All older, middling guys.
Your offensive depth is next to nothing after Marty Havlat. You have two great young talents coming in but you're unsure whether they're going to be able to produce with the players around them.
So do you sacrifice Byfuglien or Keith and Seabrook for a chance to get a more proven offense for Toews and Kane?
If you do that, you don't win three Stanley Cups within 8 years later.
Let's recap:
Traded Myers and Stafford, Joel Armia, the 25th this year and Brendan Lemieux, for Kane, Bogosian.
Now on paper, it's an alright deal. I believe the biggest issue was the sacrificing of so many young prospects for Kane, while also dealing Myers. Myers is exactly what the Sabres SHOULD have kept over from their good teams. He's shown what he can do with good teams and how instrumental he can be to their success as evidenced by the 2009-2011 seasons in Buffalo and the short stint he had in Winnipeg after being traded. He would be exactly what the Sabres need down the road. I realize most fans will point to Ristolainen as their next savior, and that may very well be true, but wouldn't you rather have both?
Kane is a great young player, but has been very inconsistent in terms of injury and production. He could develop into an elite sniper, or he could top out as a second line winger. Either way, giving up a player like Myers and all of those prospects in this fashion does not signify a smart move for essentially one player. Bogosian is a nice add-on, but he is no Myers. A cornerstone defenseman who is 25 is a hell of a lot more important than what Kane brings.
Now to my next point:
Ryan O'Reilly, McGinn for Zadorov, Grigorenko, Compher, and the 31st this year.
Yet again, the Sabres sacrifice a developing Zadorov and many more young players for a proven commodity in ROR. Now I'm not saying ROR isn't great. He's a great talent. He just isn't what the Sabres should be going for at this stage. The amount they sacrificed to get him is particularly troubling when Eichel is supposed to be given to keys to the kingdom. If all of last year was for the effort to get Eichel to become young number one, all-star, team-building, saving grace center, would you trade for a number one center and sign him to a 7 year deal for 7.5 million dollars? He's a great player, for sure, but it makes no sense with the way the team WAS rebuilding. Coupled with the trading of Myers, the trading of Zadorov makes this also extremely hard to understand in my opinion. Sacrificed defense for a position that wasn't necessarily a need in the first place, along with three other great prospects. I'll get to all the draft picks in a second.
Lastly, Lehner and Legwand for the 21st overall.
I don't have as much of an issue with this trade as I do the others. Clearly the Sabres needed a goaltender. I believe however, since this was I think the first goalie deal, it was an extreme overpayment. Everyone probably said that at the time, and if it works out for them that's fantastic, but they sacrificed a third pick in the top 31 to do it. (Also I know the Sharks did a similar deal for a young goalie, but I also think the Sharks are in a different situation than the Sabres). It yet agains seems like a rush move to try and make a team happen next season instead of stocking the cupboards. Also interesting was that the Caps selected a goalie at #22 overall. The biggest problem was the amount of teams that needed a goalie all were more cautious with jumping the gun than the Buffalo Sabres. That to me just doesn't sit right. How many here would rather have Legwand and Lehner for the 21st than Talbot, Niemi, Khudobin, Jones, or Lack for the deals they got?
Overall the Sabres acquired:
Lehner
Legwand
Kane
Bogosian
McGinn
O'Reilly
They gave up:
Tyler Myers
Drew Stafford
Nikita Zadorov
Mikhail Grigorenko
JT Compher
Joel Armia
Brendan Lemieux
the 25th (selected as Jack Roslovic)
the 21st (selected as Colin White, but with a goalie selected at 22)
the 31st (selected as Jeremy Roy)
Their defense suffered immensely in the future because of these moves. Their next year's defensive roster could have looked like this on defense:
Zadorov-Myers
Gorges-Ristolainen
McCabe-Pysyk
Weber
Roy
That top 4 certainly looks competitive. It looks downright impressive for the future with Zadorov, Ristolainen and Myers. Then all of the other up and coming players behind it also looks impressive. Pysyk, Roy, McCabe. Weber and Gorges could balance out that core with experienced albeit not very exciting play. It's a solid building block for the future.
Currently it's just a mess, and unless there are some serious FA signings, it's going to stay a mess.
Gorges-Ristolainen
McCabe-Bogosian
Weber-Pysyk
Donovan
Ristolainen is now the number one defender, whether he likes it or not. Whether he can become one or not. In the other scenario, he developed behind Myers. Played second pairing minutes. Now he's playing first line minutes with a defensive partner of Josh Gorges, instead of second line minutes against second-third liners. Bogosian won't contribute any offense from that second pair, the third pair is a crapshoot. It's a mess.
I realize the importance of getting quality players like Kane and ROR, but they set their defense back a long while unless they attract a big name here or move more assets to cover up their own mistakes.
They also gave up the whole idea of trying to bring up young players when they traded away the farm for Kane and ROR. Grigorenko could be busting, he could bust out. Stafford, Lemieux, Compher, Armia, 21st, 25th, 31st in this year's draft is a hell of a price to pay besides Myers and Zadorov.
Overall, I realize they improved up front, but the acquisition of ROR AND Kane for the prices they gave up just doesn't sit right with me. They should have done one of those trades, and let Eichel have the keys to the kingdom. If he's as good as they say he is, he can handle the top line. If he does take over the top line, your second line center is being paid 7.5 million dollars and you gutted your D to do it. In my opinion, signing Niemi instead of Lehner, keeping Zadorov, Myers, Stafford and the multitude of prospects they gave up are worth more than ROR and Kane in the long term. They rushed it, and they did it at the wrong time without even knowing what they're getting from the prospects they have built up for the past three years. Without knowing what will happen with Eichel, without knowing whether Kane will be alright after his surgery, and without knowing what will happen up front without a serviceable defense.
Adding this because I feel it is appropriate:
You're the Chicago Blackhawks in the offseason of 2006-2007. You've got Kane and Toews coming up after you have essentially finished terribly. You've got a solid Duncan Keith, a solid Brent Seabrook, and Dustin Byfuglien kicking around.
Now Keith has been good, he's produced at 30 points this year but he put up only 2 goals. He's older at 23 than Toews and Kane coming in at 18 and 19. Seabrook regressed this year. He's 21 and put up 24 points in 81 games after putting up 31 in 69 the year before. He's got promise but that regression is scary.
But then you look at your forward depth and it is atrocious. You have Havlat who only played 18 games for Ottawa the year before, missed 30 games this season and somehow still led the team in scoring with 57. He's a great talent, but he's often injured. Then you've got a team full of second or third line players. Vrbata put up 41 points over the full season, Tuumo Ruutu has 38 points and he's your 4th highest scorer. Jeff Hamilton is third at 39 points. Smolinski is there with 37 points. All older, middling guys.
Your offensive depth is next to nothing after Marty Havlat. You have two great young talents coming in but you're unsure whether they're going to be able to produce with the players around them.
So do you sacrifice Byfuglien or Keith and Seabrook for a chance to get a more proven offense for Toews and Kane?
If you do that, you don't win three Stanley Cups within 8 years later.
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