Player Discussion: Nikita Gusev

[Volodya Krutov]

People seem to think Gusev was offered an AHL contract after becoming a star with no actual evidence beside a tweet from Joe Smith saying one was offered in the past. He did not say when the contract was offered, so people pounce to conclusions like some sort of savage Cat Bowser pouncing on his prey

I tried to let go the remark above but this is over the top. I really love how 2 pundits try to lecture the rare guys that have been closely following Gusev, on and off the ice, for the past years and dare to express the only original thoughts around here about this topic. The issue goes beyond a tweet from Joe Smith, it dates back from 2 years ago when Gusev was an upcoming free agent, and expressed an explicit wish to play for Tampa, a time when he was still extremely affordable and already started to display his full potential. All these informations have been documented on this thread just saying.

In the end I couldn't care less if you want to believe there's nothing fishy about how Tampa handled the situation, it's your opinion, everyone has one, but don't come patronizing me without bringing something informative to the table. Thank you.

 

[Steazy Doo]

I tried to let go the remark above but this is over the top. I really love how 2 pundits try to lecture the rare guys that have been closely following Gusev, on and off the ice, for the past years and dare to express the only original thoughts around here about this topic. The issue goes beyond a tweet from Joe Smith, it dates back from 2 years ago when Gusev was an upcoming free agent, and expressed an explicit wish to play for Tampa, a time when he was still extremely affordable and already started to display his full potential. All these informations have been documented on this thread just saying.

In the end I couldn't care less if you want to believe there's nothing fishy about how Tampa handled the situation, it's your opinion, everyone has one, but don't come patronizing me without bringing something informative to the table. Thank you.

The only person being patronized is Yzerman by you. All I did was point out that these are suspicions at best. If you have sources to prove when the contract was made feel free to share, I admittedly don't follow it that close. Wasn't trying to take a jab at you.

Did Gusev express interest in coming here? Yes, you don't know what was offered when though.
Did he express more interest in playing home? I'd say that's a yes considering he turned down a probable short AHL stint, he seems to love playing where he's at.

What's the incriminating evidence against Yzerman here? This just smells like a kid who'd rather play home then in a foreign country.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

The only person be patronized is Yzerman by you. All I did was point out that these are suspicions at best. If you have sources to prove when the contract was made feel free to share, I admittedly don't follow it that close. Wasn't trying to take a jab at you

That's not patronizing Yzerman, a player, GM and a person I have a lot respect for. He's one of the best GM in the game and we're lucky to have him. That's just an effort to see things without rose colored glasses. People make mistakes, it's part of the game. I'm just pointing out that it's a pity Gusev seems unlikely to come over anytime soon because he's entering his prime now, and seeing how small his contract witht SKA was ($900.000 per season) maybe we missed our best chance to get him at an affordable price when he was a free agent last year. Kucherov's right when he says that the addition of Gusev would put Tampa over the top, hence the frustration.

 

[Steazy Doo]

That's not patronizing Yzerman, a player, GM and a person I have a lot respect for. He's one of the best GM in the game and we're lucky to have him. That's just an effort to see things without rose colored glasses. People make mistakes, it's part of the game. I'm just pointing out that it's a pity Gusev seems unlikely to come over anytime soon because he's entering his prime now, and seeing how small his contract witht SKA was ($900.000 per season) maybe we missed our best chance to get him at an affordable price when he was a free agent last year. Kucherov's right when he says that the addition of Gusev would put Tampa over the top, hence the frustration.

I get what you're saying. It is a tad frustrating in hindsight, but SKA didn't offer him huge money while being unproven either, as you pointed out. He would have made similar money to 900k if he had come here that year, so that seems to point to him just preferring home rather then trying to build an NHL career.

The only thing Yzerman could have done was overpaid him based on potential and gave him a guaranteed spot on a pretty stacked top six (which we all know it's not in Yzerman's playbook to tell the coach who he should play) I don't blame him. We couldn't even give Drouin what most of us thought he deserved.

Anyway, if that offer Smith referred to was made anytime after that, then obviously there was a problem. But do we really think that? I think it's incredibly unfair to assume that.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I get what you're saying. It is a tad frustrating in hindsight, but SKA didn't offer him huge money while being unproven either, as you pointed out. He would have made similar money to 900k if he had come here that year, so that seems to point to him just preferring home rather then trying to build an NHL career.

The only thing Yzerman could have done was overpaid him based on potential and gave him a guaranteed spot on a pretty stacked top six (which we all know it's not in Yzerman's playbook to tell the coach who he should play) I don't blame him. We couldn't even give Drouin what most of us thought he deserved.

Anyway, if that offer Smith referred to was made anytime after that, then obviously there was a problem. But do we really think that? I think it's incredibly unfair to assume that.

Even if we're not in the secret of the gods, that's when following the story chronologically that you can't help it, but something looks weird. Firstly, let me point out that getting $900.000 in the KHL is not the same as in the NHL. Such salary is considered a very good one in the Kontinental league, honestly less than $1M is peanuts in the NHL. Secondly I watched almost every game Gusev played with SKA and it didn't take me rocket science to understand this kid was on another level from the start. I'm pretty sure Tampa has guys scouting the KHL for them, just in case, and if I can see it, they can see it too. In the end his progression was extremely constant and foreseeable. And with all the other components discussed above, that's where the discomfort lies. With a kid like this, it's not a question of "if" or "not" getting him, just "how" you get him, because if you don't do it, someone else will do it for you. I'm not saying Tampa did something wrong, I'm just scared sh**less they didn't do enough. We'll see.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Even if we're not in the secret of the gods, that's when following the story chronologically that you can't help it, but something looks weird. Firstly, let me point out that getting $900.000 in the KHL is not the same as in the NHL. Such salary is considered a very good one in the Kontinental league, honestly less than $1M is peanuts in the NHL. Secondly I watched almost every game Gusev played with SKA and it didn't take me rocket science to understand this kid was on another level from the start. I'm pretty sure Tampa has guys scouting the KHL for them, just in case, and if I can see it, they can see it too. In the end his progression was extremely constant and foreseeable. And with all the other components discussed above, that's where the discomfort lies. With a kid like this, it's not a question of "if" or "not" getting him, just "how" you get him, because if you don't do it, someone else will do it for you. I'm not saying Tampa did something wrong, I'm just scared sh**less they didn't do enough. We'll see.

Fair enough.

 

[c_robio]

He likely wants to make more money in the KHL than he would a mandatory ELC in the NHL. I think he could come over as a UFA once he turns 27

 

[VoluntaryDom]

yeah but we wouldn't have his exclusive rights

 

[Caser]

About Gusev's rights, there is a rumor that rights for 'defected' players are held indefinitely, not just until 27, but I guess noone checked that yet.

About the ELC eligibility, capfriendly.com tells that starting from this summer Gusev can be offered more than just an ELC (since he will be 25 this summer):

How do Entry-Level Contracts Work?

Players younger than 25 years of age as of September 15 during the year of their first NHL contract must sign an entry-level contract which have set limitations - all entry-level contracts are two-way contracts and the maximum allowable salary for players drafted until 2022 is $925,000.

The length of the entry-level contract is also dependent on the player’s age:

18-21 years of age: 3 years
22-23 years of age: 2 years
24 years of age: 1 year

 

[The Macho King]

About Gusev's rights, there is a rumor that rights for 'defected' players are held indefinitely, not just until 27, but I guess noone checked that yet.

About the ELC eligibility, capfriendly.com tells that starting from this summer Gusev can be offered more than just an ELC (since he will be 25 this summer):

I remember looking through the CBA and remember *something* was different for "players who played professionally in Europe", but that may have just been about retaining rights rather than ELCs.

 

[nhljohnson]

About Gusev's rights, there is a rumor that rights for 'defected' players are held indefinitely, not just until 27, but I guess noone checked that yet.

About the ELC eligibility, capfriendly.com tells that starting from this summer Gusev can be offered more than just an ELC (since he will be 25 this summer):

Per Article 9.1 (C) of the current CBA:

Notwithstanding the chart set forth in (b) above, a Player who at the time he was drafted was playing for a team outside North America or who meets the qualifications set forth in Article 8.4(a)(v) (a "European Player") who signs his first SPC at ages 25-27 shall be subject to the Entry Level System for one (1) year. A European Player who signs his first SPC at age 28 or older is not subject to the Entry Level System under any circumstances.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Zaitsev

Zaitsev for the Leafs was on a one year ELC cause he was 25 years of age. That deal expired after one year when he became a RFA.
Leafs extended him a 7 year contract.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

That sucks. A one year ELC can't compete with the money he'll earn in Russia.

 

[Bolt32]

That sucks. A one year ELC can't compete with the money he'll earn in Russia.

Just make it bonus heavy, sign him for a one year deal. Give him a KHL out clause. Saying if hes demoted hes free to cancel his contract and go play in the KHL.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Just make it bonus heavy, sign him for a one year deal. Give him a KHL out clause. Saying if hes demoted hes free to cancel his contract and go play in the KHL.

But even bonus-heavy ELCs max out at just under $4M, and only a quarter of that is guaranteed.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

But even bonus-heavy ELCs max out at just under $4M, and only a quarter of that is guaranteed.

Kovalchuk was the highest paid player in the KHL at $5.5M/year. $4M woud make an awful lot of money for Gusev.

 

[dechire]

Kovalchuk was the highest paid player in the KHL at $5.5M/year. $4M woud make an awful lot of money for Gusev.

He wouldn't make anywhere near 4m. Max bonus means he won the Art Ross, Calder, Hart, Richard, etc.

 

[Bolt32]

He wouldn't make anywhere near 4m. Max bonus means he won the Art Ross, Calder, Hart, Richard, etc.

Team's set the bonus standard. We make it reasonable. Not outlandish like winning the art Ross.

 

[dechire]

Team's set the bonus standard. We make it reasonable. Not outlandish like winning the art Ross.

No the league sets the bonus structure. There are different tiers within which teams are able to select which specific goals to set. Each item has a specific amount attached. The big money items are things like the Art Ross. More reasonable goals get you relatively little. There is no way for Gusev to earn 4m in bonuses without meeting those "outlandish" goals.

 

[Bolt32]

No the league sets the bonus structure. There are different tiers within which teams are able to select which specific goals to set. Each item has a specific amount attached. The big money items are things like the Art Ross. More reasonable goals get you relatively little. There is no way for Gusev to earn 4m in bonuses without meeting those "outlandish" goals.

Even still. Anyone know how much Gusev is making? Because even with the bonus's the teams set ( Teams set bonus, as well as some outlandish ones that the league sets as well. It's a mix of both.) We can can give him a 925k salary, then another 850k in bonus's that he can hit. So yeah... 1.7 million isn't anything to sneeze at.

 

[The Macho King]

Team's set the bonus standard. We make it reasonable. Not outlandish like winning the art Ross.

Nope. Schedule A bonuses and Schedule B bonuses are in the CBA.

Edit: Although the Schedule B bonuses (the major ones) are not *only* things like end of season awards. Generally top 10 in any major scoring category (p/g/a), or top ten in ppg can get you there as well.

 

[Caser]

Per Article 9.1 (C) of the current CBA:

Thanks, i wasn't aware of that.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

People seem to think Gusev was offered an AHL contract after becoming a star with no actual evidence beside a tweet from Joe Smith saying one was offered in the past. He did not say when the contract was offered, so people pounce to conclusions like some sort of savage Cat Bowser pouncing on his prey

There was one discussion about him coming over, and he was interested in coming over IF he had a shot at the big club. Why would you leave home making a pile of money to play for, what, 60k in the AHL when you could just keep working on your skillset and wait?

He'll come over when hes ready, and has a legitimate shot at the NHL roster.

 

[Todd1a]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/khl-dealing-unprecedented-financial-struggles-195307221.html does this mean gusev changes his mind ?

 

[The Macho King]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/khl-dealing-unprecedented-financial-struggles-195307221.html does this mean gusev changes his mind ?

It's team dependent. SKA is not having those problems. I think they're planning on contracting.