Confirmed with Link: Nicklas Grossmann/Chris Pronger traded to Arizona for Sam Gagner/draft pick

[LegionOfDoom91]

Is puck possession different from "getting the puck back" to Giroux and Voracek, because your original post was that he can't get the puck back to those guys.

You were just doing your shtick again of being dense for the sake of trying to draw out an argument.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well...with the Richards news, Pronger becomes yesterday's news.

And if Vinny's deal gets mutually terminated it will barely make a ripple.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Speaking of, when are we terminating Vinny?

 

[Hiesenberg]

Well...with the Richards news, Pronger becomes yesterday's news.

Until he makes the HHOF

 

[Hiesenberg]

Speaking of, when are we terminating Vinny?

7/2.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Until he makes the HHOF

This site will go down faster than the Hindenburg if he makes it.

 

[McNasty]

If Raffl is as good as everyone says, he should work fine on another line.

Why would that be true for Raffl and not Gagner though? You're completely dismissing the success Voracek and Giroux have had with Raffl compared to without him, which should be proof that you can't just slot anybody in that spot. Raffl's skillet is a good fit for Jake and Giroux, it'd be nice if his shot was a bit better and more reliable but that's not an area I expect Sam Gagner to be significantly better since he's never topped 20 goals in his career.

If Laughton is going to take some of the defensive heavy lifting from Couturier then it shouldn't be that much of a problem to put him with Couturier. If both lines are going to take some of the defensive work, and Sam Gagner is so bad that he's not an option with either of those centers, the only solution is to buy him out or put him on the 4th line to use as a PP/Shootout specialist.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

You were just doing your shtick again of being dense for the sake of trying to draw out an argument.

Oh yea, the old schtick of responding to your comment, you saying something different in response to my comment, and me wanting you to clarify if your two posts on the same subject saying different things are two separate points or both talking about the same thing. GOTCHA!

Why would that be true for Raffl and not Gagner though? You're completely dismissing the success Voracek and Giroux have had with Raffl compared to without him, which should be proof that you can't just slot anybody in that spot. Raffl's skillet is a good fit for Jake and Giroux, it'd be nice if his shot was a bit better and more reliable but that's not an area I expect Sam Gagner to be significantly better since he's never topped 20 goals in his career.

If Laughton is going to take some of the defensive heavy lifting from Couturier then it shouldn't be that much of a problem to put him with Couturier. If both lines are going to take some of the defensive work, and Sam Gagner is so bad that he's not an option with either of those centers, the only solution is to buy him out or put him on the 4th line to use as a PP/Shootout specialist.

I think because Gagner we know is very one dimensional. Raffl I think can play in all zones with varying degrees of success. Gagner doesn't seem to fit that mold.

EDIT: I've got no problem if Gagner fits elsewhere. I just think he should first be tried with G and Voracek and Raffl should go elsewhere. If that doesn't work, switch 'em up.

 

[Protest]

I hope they stick him with Giroux and Voracek to start...I don't believe in the change of scenery thing for most players, but certain guys spend their careers in crap situations and can take off if put into a position to succeed.

He's been a 40-45 point player his entire career. I think if he can gel with Giroux and Voracek you're looking at another 10-15 points, which would make him at least an average 1st line winger. That would be a steal.

It's comical how people are so simple minded here when it comes to who's playing with Giroux & Voracek. They make it sound so easy as to who you can slot in next two those guys when it really isn't the case.

I know you didn't quote me directly, but you're alluding to me as I'm the one who brought it up. I'd really like to know what is so simple minded about saying you'd like to see them experiment by putting a former top draft pick on a line with your best players? I never said just stick him there cause it'll work. I'm just saying I think it's worth trying, as you could potentially come away with a 1st line winger in a deal for friggin Grossmann.

I also think it's somewhat odd that you're complaining about people being overly simple, when you're the one talking in absolutes regarding the future. Truth is I think it's more than likely that you're right, but that doesn't mean that you will be right. Sometimes things just work for whatever reason, even if everything is telling you they should fail. It's not outrageous to suggest the team try a reclamation project, especially after what we've seen with Mason.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I know you didn't quote me directly, but you're alluding to me as I'm the one who brought it up. I'd really like to know what is so simple minded about saying you'd like to see them experiment by putting a former top draft pick on a line with your best players? I never said just stick him there cause it'll work. I'm just saying I think it's worth trying, as you could potentially come away with a 1st line winger in a deal for friggin Grossmann.

I also think it's somewhat odd that you're complaining about people being overly simple, when you're the one talking in absolutes regarding the future. Truth is I think it's more than likely that you're right, but that doesn't mean that you will be right. Sometimes things just work for whatever reason, even if everything is telling you they should fail. It's not outrageous to suggest the team try a reclamation project, especially after what we've seen with Mason.

I honestly didn't even see your post so no I didn't have you on mind when posting that. It was a general comment & not 100% just about Gagner. A lot of people take Giroux & Voracek for granted when thinking of who can play next them. They act as if you can plug any player in there & they'll get automatic results. On paper Schenn sounded better than Raffl because of his skill level being higher but in reality Raffl got better results when with those two than Schenn.

Personally I'd probably hold onto him & give him easy minutes so it could potentially inflate his worth for a deadline flip but I understand if Hextall wants to cut bait with him.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Is puck possession different from "getting the puck back" to Giroux and Voracek, because your original post was that he can't get the puck back to those guys.

Gets the puck to them means Raffle wins boards battles and wins back puck possession and hands it off to G or V so they can do something. He isn't talking about making nice pass or getting assists he is talking about grinding out pucks so that the more talented players can do something with it. Do you think that Gagner will provide that same element? on a line of G, V and Gagner, who wins the most board battles? How do you see Gagner being used on that line?

 

[Curufinwe]

Pronger's on NHLN right now.

But they just congratulated him on the HHoF, and didn't ask about being tarded.

 

[Funf]

Pronger's on NHLN right now.

But they just congratulated him on the HHoF, and didn't ask about being tarded.

Well, that would be a little mean after all those concussions...

 

[Curufinwe]

What a typo.

 

[duffy9748]

Gagner on the top line with Giroux/Voracek is a nice story, but then you have to remember he was just traded for a guy who hasn't played in 3 years and Nicklas Grossmann.

 

[Lindberg]

Pronger's on NHLN right now.

But they just congratulated him on the HHoF, and didn't ask about being tarded.

I don't think Pronger cares about being traded at this point. He is fully aware that his NHL career is done and that he was making money by just staying on LTIR. Now that he has been traded to Arizona and only getting paid 500k a year it isn't out of the realm of possibility for him to retire.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's the best typo and response we've had in a long time

 

[SgtJoseph*]

I wish both of them the best , they gave their best while in Philly !

 

[OzFlyers]

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Gets the puck to them means Raffle wins boards battles and wins back puck possession and hands it off to G or V so they can do something. He isn't talking about making nice pass or getting assists he is talking about grinding out pucks so that the more talented players can do something with it. Do you think that Gagner will provide that same element? on a line of G, V and Gagner, who wins the most board battles? How do you see Gagner being used on that line?

I think he'd be used the same way he has been his whole career. Is he going to win every board battle? No. Will he win as many as Raffl? Probably not. But can he do other things that Raffl can't? I think so.

In only two seasons has he put up less than 41 points (lockout he still put up 38, year after that he had 37 in sixty-something games). I know stats don't tell the whole story, but if he can do that on ****ty things while being an overall ****ty hockey, I sure would like to give him a shot with two world class players and see what happens. Maybe he'll be ****ty and he'll bring down Giroux and Voracek. Or maybe he'll be ****ty but still produce because those two will lift him up. Or maybe he won't be ****ty and he'll produce more than we all expect. But I certainly wouldn't just write him off because you are concerned he won't win board battles or play well on the forecheck or whatever the concern is.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

can we plz get MDZ signed..

thx Hexy..

 

[Tripod]

And if Vinny's deal gets mutually terminated it will barely make a ripple.

Oh..I think you are wrong there. NJ fans will be all over it comparing it to Kovy.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So horrible.

[NHL]2014021078-479-a[/NHL]

that is some rather horrible goaltending.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

That's the best typo and response we've had in a long time

that needs to be not edited and allowed to stay up in all its glory.

 

[Lindberg]

that is some rather horrible goaltending.

Agreed. Raffl only scores in blowouts so the 20~ goals he scored on 5v5 doesn't count. It is fairly obviously that he would just stink up the 2nd PP unit if given the chance as well.