Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part IX

[Mrb1p]

This guy is bar none our best forward. Tbh I think the only thing missing is conditioning/fitness to be able to crank at a higher gear for longer durations. When he motors he is pretty quick but he can run out of gas, which is normal for a young player in the league

I think KK was still a tad bit better yesterday, especially as he drew a lot of Hayes matchups compared to Suzuki but is it ever refreshing to see both of these guys being clearly the two best forwards. An actualy 1-2 punch at center... We haven't seen that since...? Koivu/Plek ? Koivu/Ribeiro ?

Hopefully theyre even better than that.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ok, we're just on totally different pages. No point in discussing further.

Youre not on a page buddy, youre on an imaginary cloud, because thats real world things.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please stop with the stupid arguments and the veiled insults
.

With that said, I recognize the value of grit, leadership, and yadda yadda. Danault brings a lot of things to a team, and yes, he's our version of Eller, coincidentally, Eller played around 17 minutes a night in POs and in the regular season. That includes PK time. Do you see where the difference lies ? Danault can play the matchup without having to play 20 minutes a night.

It just means that during the 20 minutes a night he plays, you won't outscore the opponent, thus you wont win, because the goal is to outscore the opponent, not to defend the status quo.

Heck, even first line centers dont play 20 minutes a night usually. Couturier surely does not, so why does Danault need to ?

Also it shows your ignorance when you link Danault with Gainey and Carbo while discredidting Pahlsson, who was 100% a better player than Danault is right now, in his prime years. He's probably the main reason why the Ducks won their cup and why they were so dominant the year before, aside from Nieds and Prong. With that said, its safe to say that Danault will not make the HOF, Carbo and Gainey are in there and while I did not agree with the Carbo nomination, he's still miles ahead of what Danault is and what he will be, and its fine. Would you compare the best offensive players on any given day to Gretzky and Lemieux ? Same thing.

I'll stop jumping on your back once you stop jumping on Danault's back due to Julien's usage on him. Danault is a valuable piece for us. Leave him alone!

 

[Mrb1p]

I'll stop jumping on your back once you stop jumping on Danault's back due to Julien's usage on him. Danault is a valuable piece for us. Leave him alone!

WTF is this mentality, really ?

 

[salbutera]

With that said, I recognize the value of grit, leadership, and yadda yadda. Danault brings a lot of things to a team, and yes, he's our version of Eller, coincidentally, Eller played around 17 minutes a night in POs and in the regular season. That includes PK time. Do you see where the difference lies ? Danault can play the matchup without having to play 20 minutes a night.

It just means that during the 20 minutes a night he plays, you won't outscore the opponent, thus you wont win, because the goal is to outscore the opponent, not to defend the status quo.

Heck, even first line centers dont play 20 minutes a night usually. Couturier surely does not, so why does Danault need to ?

The Eller comparison is unfair, Habs do not have an Ovy, Kuznetsov or Backstrom - and no Suzuki / KK will never hit that elite level.

Furthermore, the Habs are constructed to win based on 4-line depth contribution, hence, Julien strategy is obvious, if you can shutdown Couturier & Hayes’ lines then Habs increase probability of success with their 3rd + 4th lines vs Philly.

I.e combination of KK + Domi lines being able to out produce Grant + NT lines.

Also Danault played nearly 4-min of PK which will continue to bump up his TOI and KK is nowhere near ready to take on 15+ TOI at present.

 

[Habs Halifax]

WTF is this mentality, really ?

It's pretty simple. Leave Danault alone and I'll leave you alone. I'm tired of you jumping on his back all the time. I have every right to attack you as equally as you are attacking Danault. Danault is not just some average 3C. Give your head a shake. Attack Julien. He's the one that creates the lines. You are the one who is frustrated with it and doubling down on Danault being just a average 3C... or whatever you are trying to devalue him to.

You don't get to target our most mature center who is doing a lot of things out there for us other than points with no backlash.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Eller comparison is unfair, Habs do not have an Ovy, Kuznetsov or Backstrom - and no Suzuki / KK will never hit that elite level.

Furthermore, the Habs are constructed to win based on 4-line depth contribution, hence, Julien strategy is obvious, if you can shutdown Couturier & Hayes’ lines then Habs increase probability of success with their 3rd + 4th lines vs Philly.

I.e combination of KK + Domi lines being able to out produce Grant + NT lines.

Also Danault played nearly 4-min of PK which will continue to bump up his TOI and KK is nowhere near ready to take on 15+ TOI at present.

The Habs aren't built to win anything. And no team has ever won being built to win like that, stop. Your top players get you where you will go, not the third or fourth line.

The fact that the Habs do not have Ovy, kuz and Backstrom is exactly the problem, and somehow, riding Danault till we die ain't the way.

And yes, he plays a lot of PK and that is fine, I can see him play 20 minutes on nights where they have a lot of penalties, thats not a problem, but his ES TOI is always high, and thats what Id like to change.

It's pretty simple. Leave Danault alone and I'll leave you alone. I'm tired of you jumping on his back all the time. I have every right to attack you as equally as you are attacking Danault. Danault is not just some average 3C. Give your head a shake. Attack Julien. He's the one that creates the lines. You are the one who is frustrated with it and doubling down on Danault being just a average 3C... or whatever you are trying to devalue him to.

You don't get to target our most mature center who is doing a lot of things out there for us other than points with no backlash.

Im not attacking Danault, maybe thats the problem ? Im discussing his usage. Theres no point in keeping this going though, youve escalated the discussion to a new level of stupidity.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Im not attacking Danault, maybe thats the problem ? Im discussing his usage. Theres no point in keeping this going though, youve escalated the discussion to a new level of stupidity.

Your narrative is Danault is just a average 3C. I consider that an attack. He's not just some average 3C. You take Gallagher and Danault off his line and place Byron and Armia and yeah, his points go down but I believe you are way too focused on offensive ability and ignoring hockey players who can do things other than points. He is our version of Eller and younger. He has produced and earned his way at an earlier age vs Eller. Regardless, these types might be on the 3rd listed line but they are much more than that. Many teams looking for a piece like this and it's not easy to find.

What I would like though is for Danault to play with Byron and Armia more so his point totals do go down. This way, he can't ask for $6M+ and we can lock him up for $5M ish. If he is difficult in October on a contract extension... I bet you that's what the Habs do. No more Gallagher and Tatar for you. It still don't mean he's just some average 3C which is exactly your narrative.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The Eller comparison is unfair, Habs do not have an Ovy, Kuznetsov or Backstrom - and no Suzuki / KK will never hit that elite level.

Furthermore, the Habs are constructed to win based on 4-line depth contribution, hence, Julien strategy is obvious, if you can shutdown Couturier & Hayes’ lines then Habs increase probability of success with their 3rd + 4th lines vs Philly.

I.e combination of KK + Domi lines being able to out produce Grant + NT lines.

Also Danault played nearly 4-min of PK which will continue to bump up his TOI and KK is nowhere near ready to take on 15+ TOI at present.

Disagree, I think both (especially Suzuki) have a decent chance of being as good as Kuznetsov
Suzuki is already a 1C in his rookie year

 

[Big Empty]

This shot



and this dangle



Suzuki is such a stud

 

[The Great Weal]

Oh look, another thread turned into a Danault thread by you guessed it.

Suzuki would be producing more if his wingers didnt suck right now. Hes playing great hockey.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your narrative is Danault is just a average 3C. I consider that an attack. He's not just some average 3C. You take Gallagher and Danault off his line and place Byron and Armia and yeah, his points go down but I believe you are way too focused on offensive ability and ignoring hockey players who can do things other than points. He is our version of Eller and younger. He has produced and earned his way at an earlier age vs Eller. Regardless, these types might be on the 3rd listed line but they are much more than that. Many teams looking for a piece like this and it's not easy to find.

What I would like though is for Danault to play with Byron and Armia more so his point totals do go down. This way, he can't ask for $6M+ and we can lock him up for $5M ish. If he is difficult in October on a contract extension... I bet you that's what the Habs do. No more Gallagher and Tatar for you. It still don't mean he's just some average 3C which is exactly your narrative.

Heh, the problem is that you think you understand more than you actually understand.

I already said we were done.

 

[Mrb1p]

Oh look, another thread turned into a Danault thread by you guessed it.

Suzuki would be producing more if his wingers didnt suck right now. Hes playing great hockey.

Mrb1p: Suzuki and KK are so good but id like it if theyd play more at ES
Everyone: YoUrE a DAnaULt HatEr

 

[Habs Halifax]

Heh, the problem is that you think you understand more than you actually understand.

I already said we were done.

That is your problem, not mine . We are only done if you stop calling Danault a 3C. . Don't try to back track on your devalue narrative for Danault where you think I don't understand. You clearly don't value him right and it's been years now!

Anyways... just realized it's the Suzuki thread. Was it you who came to the Suzuki thread to devalue Danault? . You have to realize how this looks over and over again man. Just stop jumping on Danault's back. This is the Suzuki thread.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The Eller comparison is unfair, Habs do not have an Ovy, Kuznetsov or Backstrom - and no Suzuki / KK will never hit that elite level.

Furthermore, the Habs are constructed to win based on 4-line depth contribution, hence, Julien strategy is obvious, if you can shutdown Couturier & Hayes’ lines then Habs increase probability of success with their 3rd + 4th lines vs Philly.

I.e combination of KK + Domi lines being able to out produce Grant + NT lines.

Also Danault played nearly 4-min of PK which will continue to bump up his TOI and KK is nowhere near ready to take on 15+ TOI at present.

I think Suzuki and KK could be comparable to these 2. The problem is no super star winger.

I agree with the rest tho. Was wondering if someone would point this out.

The team is built with 3 #2 centers, or will be next season (KK is close ... keep in mind, he was just in the AHL). If Danault shuts things down vs top lines, there should be trickle down. Obviously, this means a little more ES time, since that’s what the other team’s top line will get.

The habs need 2 things before they’ll have success with this approach:
- another year of experience for KK (hopefully he’ll be at Suzuki’s level)
- 2 more quality wingers (Byron and Lehks to the 4th)

Having the center with the most TOI simply breaking even won’t work if you have a traditional 1-2-3. It won’t be good enough on a top heavy team.

 

[ahmedou]

#Suzuki-PressConference(20/08/12)

“I don’t really see myself as the No. 1 guy. We’re real deep at centre. All four of us have been playing really well. All four lines are generating. So, it doesn’t really matter to us where we’re seeded in the lineup. Just we got to do our jobs as centres and we’ve been doing a good job. We started off with really good centres in Pittsburgh and now with Philly they got a lot of talent down the middle too. So we got to do our job there.”

“I think we can generate a ton as a group. We’ve shown that we can play against the top teams in the league and this team. Byron, Danault and Lehkonen were awesome, they created a tonne of energy. Around the net, getting chances. Since they’ve been together, they’ve been generating a lot for us. So it’s nice to see them do that, it just gives life on the bench to us.”

“I wasn't quite sure what it hit and when it was coming at me. I just kind of tucked my head. I was hoping it was going to hit me and I'd block the shot. But Price did an unbelievable job there saving that and saving my head, for sure.”

“The last shot, I didn’t really see it. I heard it hit the crossbar.”

 

[salbutera]

The Habs aren't built to win anything. And no team has ever won being built to win like that, stop. Your top players get you where you will go, not the third or fourth line.

Forget 2011 coached by one Claude Julien? Bruins in 2011 won exactly that way by spreading time amongst 3-lines and using their 4th line for physical play w 8-10 TOI and highly dependent n high end goalie performance -that was also a team without high end players (Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci and Horton were in the 50-60 point range, if I recall Lucic was their leading scorer).

A coach’s job is to find a way to win with what they have to work with. It’s more than a coincidence teams that have been top end stacked without defensive awareness spread throughout the lineup are now out of the playoffs - Leafs, Oilers, Pens

 

[Mrb1p]

Forget 2011 coached by one Claude Julien? Bruins in 2011 won exactly that way by spreading time amongst 3-lines and using their 4th line for physical play w 8-10 TOI and highly dependent n high end goalie performance -that was also a team without high end players (Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci and Horton were in the 50-60 point range, if I recall Lucic was their leading scorer).

A coach’s job is to find a way to win with what they have to work with. It’s more than a coincidence teams that have been top end stacked without defensive awareness spread throughout the lineup are now out of the playoffs - Leafs, Oilers, Pens

Come on... Bergeron and Krejci were both top 20 C, Bergeron was in his prime.

Chris Kelly and Gregory Campbell were playing 13 and 8 minutes a night at ES and The top two 18 minutes +... how does that even come close to what you are suggesting ?

Nevermind the fact that Bergeron and Krejci were bonafides 1a/1b and could play and outplay anyone...

 

[ForeverHabs97]

Forget 2011 coached by one Claude Julien? Bruins in 2011 won exactly that way by spreading time amongst 3-lines and using their 4th line for physical play w 8-10 TOI and highly dependent n high end goalie performance -that was also a team without high end players (Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci and Horton were in the 50-60 point range, if I recall Lucic was their leading scorer).

A coach’s job is to find a way to win with what they have to work with. It’s more than a coincidence teams that have been top end stacked without defensive awareness spread throughout the lineup are now out of the playoffs - Leafs, Oilers, Pens

I definitely think playoff hockey is all about defence over offence as we've learned over the years.
Building the team from the net up is probably what kept us in the playoffs thus far.

 

[Habby4Life]

Your narrative is Danault is just a average 3C. I consider that an attack. He's not just some average 3C. You take Gallagher and Danault off his line and place Byron and Armia and yeah, his points go down but I believe you are way too focused on offensive ability and ignoring hockey players who can do things other than points. He is our version of Eller and younger. He has produced and earned his way at an earlier age vs Eller. Regardless, these types might be on the 3rd listed line but they are much more than that. Many teams looking for a piece like this and it's not easy to find.

What I would like though is for Danault to play with Byron and Armia more so his point totals do go down. This way, he can't ask for $6M+ and we can lock him up for $5M ish. If he is difficult in October on a contract extension... I bet you that's what the Habs do. No more Gallagher and Tatar for you. It still don't mean he's just some average 3C which is exactly your narrative.

If someone thinks Danault is a 3c that’s fine, it’s called an opinion. It’s not an attack. I think he is better than that but that’s just my 2 cents.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If someone thinks Danault is a 3c that’s fine, it’s called an opinion. It’s not an attack. I think he is better than that but that’s just my 2 cents.

Suzuki thread. Not willing to talk about Danault any more in this thread. It's just not right to devalue Danault and especially bring that up in the Suzuki thread. It smells of BS devalue narrative on Danault.

Back to Suzuki. It's nice to see him playing with Tatar and Gallagher and I always said it for a few years now. Danault will be moved off that line once the kids at center show maturity. That's exactly what it happening with Suzuki.

 

[Archijerej]

If someone thinks Danault is a 3c that’s fine, it’s called an opinion. It’s not an attack.

That's fair, but why the hell are we discussing this in the Suzuki thread? Is Danault taking away Suzuki's icetime?

 

[ahmedou]

#Julien-PressConference(20/08/12):Suzuki

“He had a great game. He was obviously one of our better players again tonight. It's encouraging to see young players like him play the way he's playing right now. He's one of the reasons we're here in the first round with a team at the other end with lots of depth and experience. Our young players don't seem to feel intimidated by that.”

 

[cphabs]

For as much as I like Suzuki, I think Habs fans should be careful with the "Hero" concept. Suzuki is a great piece to add on. Build around? We need to build a hockey team, this is not the Montreal Suzuki's. I rather have a strategy of rolling 3 wicket lines that are balanced and we have team friendly contracts awarded. I would hate if we have pay them like the Leafs did with Matthews, Marner, Nylander cause they were crowned.

Example: Price.

Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are on a good path. Romanov and Caufield coming here soon. Think of it as a team of youth to build on.

“Hero” concept? WTF is that? Thanks for insulting my intelligence!

 

[417]

???

With Kulak on a bottom pair?? and Byron-Danault-Lehkonen as a checking line??

I was responding to the suggestion that Danault's line match up with the opposition's best line every night and that he lead our team in TOI.

It won't work