Player Discussion Nick Holden - 1yr $1.3m extension

[aragorn]

It will be interesting to see who they are willing to re-sign for next season & who they won't. IMO Holden could get another yr & that could give Tyler Kleven another yr to get NHL ready. With Sanderson coming at the end of this school yr I expect he will be on the team next season too.

Zub & Zaitsev both have contracts for next season as does MDZ, although he could be bought out or left in the minors or taxi squad. I think JBD & Thomson both get the Brann treatment next yr & are up & down from Belleville, in & out of the lineup & Brannstrom should replace Mete & J. Brown who I expect won't return. I think Zaitsev, JBD, Brann, Thomson & MDZ will all fight for playing time next season While Chabot, Zub, Holden & maybe Sanderson will be permanently in the lineup.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev/JBD
Holden - Brann/Thomson
MDZ

 

[GCK]

It will be interesting to see who they are willing to re-sign for next season & who they won't. IMO Holden could get another yr & that could give Tyler Kleven another yr to get NHL ready. With Sanderson coming at the end of this school yr I expect he will be on the team next season too.

Zub & Zaitsev both have contracts for next season as does MDZ, although he could be bought out or left in the minors or taxi squad. I think JBD & Thomson both get the Brann treatment next yr & are up & down from Belleville, in & out of the lineup & Brannstrom should replace Mete & J. Brown who I expect won't return. I think Zaitsev, JBD, Brann, Thomson & MDZ will all fight for playing time next season While Chabot, Zub, Holden & maybe Sanderson will be permanently in the lineup.

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Zaitsev/JBD
Holden - Brann/Thomson
MDZ

Those look like the 9 who will be at the top of the depth chart.

JBD and Thomson are the only ones who are waiver exempt.

 

[God Says No]

Love it. Was a fan of bringing him in and the extension is well deserved. He's been a stabilizing force.

 

[aragorn]

Those look like the 9 who will be at the top of the depth chart.

JBD and Thomson are the only ones who are waiver exempt.

Yes, hense up & down from Belleville.

 

[bert]

The 4M of signing bonuses in the last 2 years makes a buyout less than appealing.

Didn't suggest they would buy him out. They should try and get rid if him though. He isn't playing over Holden because he makes more money I don't believe that at all. He was already moved down the line up this year. Only reason he gets to play with Chabot is because he literally cannot play in the league without being carried by him. Dorion needs to step in and take the option away from Smith. Attach a pick to him and take back a bad forward contract that expires next year.

 

[JD1]

Didn't suggest they would buy him out. They should try and get rid if him though. He isn't playing over Holden because he makes more money I don't believe that at all. He was already moved down the line up this year. Only reason he gets to play with Chabot is because he literally cannot play in the league without being carried by him. Dorion needs to step in and take the option away from Smith. Attach a pick to him and take back a bad forward contract that expires next year.

I agree with a lot of your takes but not on Zaitsev. Zaitsev struggles moving the puck. He's also mostly played top pair minutes during his time in ottawa. On that top pair, he's hard to play against and he hits. He's had his minutes mowed down a bit and they're not likely to ever move back up. He's not a great option at 22 minutes a night but he's not really hurting the team at 18 minutes a night.

We've got 4 guys on the right. Zub is the lock and let's hope they get him signed. Then you've got jbd, Thomson and Zaitsev battling for 2 spots, with brannstrom mixed in. Zaitsev's contract isn't so bad that having him play it out is crippling.

Chabot
Zaitsev
Jbd
Thomson
Brannstrom
Holden
Zub
Sanderson

That's 8 guys. Most teams will end up using 10+ in the run of a year.

Would you like more for the contract value? Ya. But neither his play at 18 minutes a night nor his contract is killing us

 

[bert]

I agree with a lot of your takes but not on Zaitsev. Zaitsev struggles moving the puck. He's also mostly played top pair minutes during his time in ottawa. On that top pair, he's hard to play against and he hits. He's had his minutes mowed down a bit and they're not likely to ever move back up. He's not a great option at 22 minutes a night but he's not really hurting the team at 18 minutes a night.

We've got 4 guys on the right. Zub is the lock and let's hope they get him signed. Then you've got jbd, Thomson and Zaitsev battling for 2 spots, with brannstrom mixed in. Zaitsev's contract isn't so bad that having him play it out is crippling.

Chabot
Zaitsev
Jbd
Thomson
Brannstrom
Holden
Zub
Sanderson

That's 8 guys. Most teams will end up using 10+ in the run of a year.

Would you like more for the contract value? Ya. But neither his play at 18 minutes a night nor his contract is killing us

Every single advanced stat said he dragged his partner down relative to their average. He battles, no debate but it's mostly because he is always in his own end due to his inability to move the puck controlled out of the zone. There is no coincidence the team has looked way better since he was injured. His play is completely irratic and inconsistent. His partner never knows what he is going to do. He constantly puts them in a bad position. His contract really is that crippling. The eye test backs up the stats.

The entire tenure he has been here Ottawa has been a bottom 3 team except the Canadian division year which now we can clearly see was the worst division in hockey. He is a massive reason why this teams been so bad. Since he has been injured they have a winning record and a positive goal differential.

Holden is the best example possible of what you want in a defensive d man. You barely notice him and that's a good thing. When Zaitsev is on its a damn adventure he is impossible to miss. He should be playing a quiet game not a loud one.

 

[Xspyrit]

Have to think this is the nail in the coffin for Brannstrom remaining a Senator long-term.

...

Bet he gets traded for forward help.

With the ton of key injuries to forwards, we might have no choice? I wonder if we could get some type of Connor Brown for Brannstrom? A guy that is buried on a deep team that would blossom on another team with more opportunity. A solid "young veteran" would really be a great add. Another RW I guess, or at least a rightie

The Blues have the deepest forward group. Problem is they already have Torey Krug, Justin Faulk and Scott Perunovich.

Dorion on fire this season. Great deal!

Dadonov (owed a lot of money) for Holden + 3rd was one of his best moves. He got Batherson and Tkachuk extended (which team can't extend his RFAs though?). But credit where it's due, the Bath contract is one of the best out there

What am I missing?

I'm starting to think Zub is a bit overrated. He was phenomenal to start the season (playing with Chabot), but he's come back down to earth a bit lately. Even 5M is an overpay. I'd consider ~$4M.

I somewhat agree, some fans are talking about him like he was Adam Pelech but he's a good #3, not a top pairing D-man on a contender. Keeping him is important though, helps build significant defensive depth. If Dorion could pull 4-5 years x 4.5 AAV that'd be a great contract

Still makes me laugh how people who have watched Branny come into his own the last month continue to want to trade him. Obviously it's a size bias thing and the kid can do no right unless he grows 5 inches.

I don't think it's because we WANT them to trade him but I don't know, I feel like it has been "written in the sky" for a while. Keep in mind I was saying the same thing for Logan Brown for like 2 years.

Sens were stubborn to have Brannstrom only on LD, it was pretty much guaranteed he'd be eventually traded but since they are suddenly open (wtf?) to have him on RD, maybe it changes everything

Zub
Brannstrom
JBD
Thomson
Zaitsev
Holden/Mete (both can play both sides)

Something needs to happen. We also need forward help, Brannstrom looks like the best trade chip. It could be either Thomson or JBD though but I doubt it for JBD at least.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with a lot of your takes but not on Zaitsev. Zaitsev struggles moving the puck. He's also mostly played top pair minutes during his time in ottawa. On that top pair, he's hard to play against and he hits. He's had his minutes mowed down a bit and they're not likely to ever move back up. He's not a great option at 22 minutes a night but he's not really hurting the team at 18 minutes a night.

We've got 4 guys on the right. Zub is the lock and let's hope they get him signed. Then you've got jbd, Thomson and Zaitsev battling for 2 spots, with brannstrom mixed in. Zaitsev's contract isn't so bad that having him play it out is crippling.

Chabot
Zaitsev
Jbd
Thomson
Brannstrom
Holden
Zub
Sanderson

That's 8 guys. Most teams will end up using 10+ in the run of a year.

Would you like more for the contract value? Ya. But neither his play at 18 minutes a night nor his contract is killing us

You missed MDZ, he's still on contract next year,

Zaitsev isn't as bad as some suggest, but 4.5 for two more years is a tough pill to swallow if he gets pushed out of the top 6, particularly with MDZ eating 2 mil to play in Belleville.

We're fortunate to have JBD, Thomson, and Sanderson on ELC, along with Brannstrom who will be on his second deal, so that lets us mitigate the impact of Zaitsev being overpaid for his role, but I'd definitely explore dumping him, though not at all costs.

 

[Masked]

There is no coincidence the team has looked way better since he was injured.

The team did go a combined 12-2 against Tampa Bay and Florida in his last 2 full games.

Assen na yo.

 

[Big Muddy]

Every single advanced stat said he dragged his partner down relative to their average. He battles, no debate but it's mostly because he is always in his own end due to his inability to move the puck controlled out of the zone. There is no coincidence the team has looked way better since he was injured. His play is completely irratic and inconsistent. His partner never knows what he is going to do. He constantly puts them in a bad position. His contract really is that crippling. The eye test backs up the stats.

The entire tenure he has been here Ottawa has been a bottom 3 team except the Canadian division year which now we can clearly see was the worst division in hockey. He is a massive reason why this teams been so bad. Since he has been injured they have a winning record and a positive goal differential.

Holden is the best example possible of what you want in a defensive d man. You barely notice him and that's a good thing. When Zaitsev is on its a damn adventure he is impossible to miss. He should be playing a quiet game not a loud one.

2 years ago and last year he had some good stretches of games where he looked pretty decent. But after that 10 - 20 game stretch (just a rough estimate), he follows it up with some bad hockey. He is inconsistent and you don't know what Zaitsev you are going to get. He seems to be a pretty good skater, so not sure what his issues are - hockey IQ, something else?

What compounds Zaitsev's situation and tenure with the Senators is that he is getting pushed from much younger players who are coming up. And, you can also get a decent older vet if you pick the right guy like we have seen with Holden. And, his $4.5 m/year contract (yes, AAV) is a lot in comparison to the other internal alternatives.

If he can be moved, that would be good. But, if it takes another decent asset to move him, or something more extreme, then that is a tougher situation that has more implications. DJS seems to like him as well for whatever reason. I don't think sheltering JBD and Thomson for a bit longer and easing them in is such a bad idea either. Tough call & tricky situation.

 

[HSF]

With the ton of key injuries to forwards, we might have no choice? I wonder if we could get some type of Connor Brown for Brannstrom? A guy that is buried on a deep team that would blossom on another team with more opportunity. A solid "young veteran" would really be a great add. Another RW I guess, or at least a rightie

We could just wait it out and see. There is no real rush to bring someone in unless they help us going forward into next year but I think Branny helps us more than another connor brown,.

 

[robsenz]

Smart move, I back this 100%

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The problem with Zaitsev is that he cannot be used in any role anymore.

He cannot be used with Chabot because it literally drains the life out of Chabot. Who remembers Chabot with Zub to start the year then when Zaitsev was paired with him again? Guy went from top 5 defender to passable number 1.

You can't put Zaistev with Brannstrom, hell no.

That only leaves either Holden or Sanderson. Holden and him can't work cause then you'd be pairing Brannstrom with Sanderson which could work if Sanderson comes in guns blazing as a bonafide top 4(which he looks to be) but can't take that risk on Sanderson's development.

Zaitsev thus... is going to be paired with Sanderson.

Chabot-Zub/Brann
Holden-Zub/Brann
Sanderson-Zaitsev
MDZ-Thomson

Don't know how I feel about that, but could work since they'll be facing 3rd best quality of players. Would be terrible to throw our future star on defense into the fire right away with Zaitsev.

Would you all trade a 2nd round pick for Colin Miller/Goligoski?

Cause I'd entertain Ottawa trading a 2nd to get rid of Zaitsev contract if it means replacing him with Colin Miller via UFA.

 

[swiftwin]

Dadonov (owed a lot of money) for Holden + 3rd was one of his best moves. He got Batherson and Tkachuk extended (which team can't extend his RFAs though?). But credit where it's due, the Bath contract is one of the best out there

What am I missing?

Sanford, Ennis, Gaudette, Forsberg.

The only flop this season is MDZ.

 

[Xspyrit]

Sanford, Ennis, Gaudette, Forsberg.

The only flop this season is MDZ.

Gaudette was a no brainer waiver pickup for a team that doesn't have any depth. There has been several other worthy waiver pickups during the season, like Pitlick who recently got claimed by the Habs. But happy they claimed Gaudette, just do not use him at center and keep his defensive responsibilities low

Ennis was a very good veteran signing 2 years ago, not as much this year but still pretty good for the price. You're right that he's worth having but ideally he's your 13th forward

Sanford was a cap dump for the Blues, he had some good games for Ottawa so far but consistency has been his problem all his career. He has been playing well recently. Can he keep it up? If he could "play like he can" 80% of the time, then it'd change everything for him.

Forsberg was picked up last season but it was the right decision to re-sign him because with covid and injuries, you can't even have too many goalies.

Most of this is the bare minimum a GM should be doing. I wouldn't put any of that to "the GM is on fire". The Dadonov for Holden + 3rd trade was more productive, Melnyk saved a lot of dough in the process.

We could just wait it out and see. There is no real rush to bring someone in unless they help us going forward into next year but I think Branny helps us more than another connor brown,.

If they tell us that Brannstrom is part of the core going forward, then yeah keep him but if not I would much rather have another potential Connor Brown.

 

[Crosside]

Holden: I wanna make sure my teammates can be themselves, that's when they can be their best

 

[GCK]

Gaudette was a no brainer waiver pickup for a team that doesn't have any depth. There has been several other worthy waiver pickups during the season, like Pitlick who recently got claimed by the Habs. But happy they claimed Gaudette, just do not use him at center and keep his defensive responsibilities low

Ennis was a very good veteran signing 2 years ago, not as much this year but still pretty good for the price. You're right that he's worth having but ideally he's your 13th forward

Sanford was a cap dump for the Blues, he had some good games for Ottawa so far but consistency has been his problem all his career. He has been playing well recently. Can he keep it up? If he could "play like he can" 80% of the time, then it'd change everything for him.

Forsberg was picked up last season but it was the right decision to re-sign him because with covid and injuries, you can't even have too many goalies.

Most of this is the bare minimum a GM should be doing. I wouldn't put any of that to "the GM is on fire". The Dadonov for Holden + 3rd trade was more productive, Melnyk saved a lot of dough in the process.



If they tell us that Brannstrom is part of the core going forward, then yeah keep him but if not I would much rather have another potential Connor Brown.

We are getting, finally, to the point where we need to be selective and target specific players. Most of the roster spots are filled next year. Trading a cost controlled D man who may be breaking out for another “Connor Brown” doesn’t make sense. We have a big need next year for a scoring RW to augment out top 6 and maximize our 3rd line of Paul Pinto Brown.

 

[swiftwin]

You just want to argue eh, or you have no idea what you are watching.

Insane how people cant tell how good and reliable Zub Holden have been. Since they were put together they are 9-5-2. They gave the team a legitimate second pair that play against the other teams best players. Hockey illiterate.

Zub has 4 goals 11 points no pp time. Is + 5 on a team with a negative goal differential of -22 he gets 65+ percent o zone starts. But he is overrated.... Unbelievable.

Not saying he's bad. Just saying he's not worth 5-6M. Why is Holden only worth 1.3M, while Zub is worth 6M?

 

[aragorn]

I'm not sure that either Thomson or JBD are exactly ready for full time in the NHL. I assume that next season they will be again in Belleville, but will be called up frequently due to injuries & Covid should it still be a problem. For this reason I think Zaitsev will again be on the roster & depending on how he plays could be in & out of the lineup as a vet player.

J. Brown & Mete will likely both be gone & who knows what they will do with MDZ & whether he is given another shot, waived, traded or bought out. IMO they will need Zaitsev for a little while longer, but could look to move him as soon as one of the good young RD are ready for full time duty. At the very least Zaitsev is better defensively than MDZ, Mete & J. Brown.

 

[JD1]

You missed MDZ, he's still on contract next year,

Zaitsev isn't as bad as some suggest, but 4.5 for two more years is a tough pill to swallow if he gets pushed out of the top 6, particularly with MDZ eating 2 mil to play in Belleville.

We're fortunate to have JBD, Thomson, and Sanderson on ELC, along with Brannstrom who will be on his second deal, so that lets us mitigate the impact of Zaitsev being overpaid for his role, but I'd definitely explore dumping him, though not at all costs.

No, I didn't miss MDZ

 

[Back in Black]

Good signing

 

[Xspyrit]

We are getting, finally, to the point where we need to be selective and target specific players. Most of the roster spots are filled next year. Trading a cost controlled D man who may be breaking out for another “Connor Brown” doesn’t make sense. We have a big need next year for a scoring RW to augment out top 6 and maximize our 3rd line of Paul Pinto Brown.

Well it depends what you think a Connor Brown is... Connor has been producing at 0.61-0.73 PPG in Ottawa while providing high end 2-way play and elite PKing. Getting a more productive RW by trading Brannstrom is very unlikely to happen, almost impossible I'd say. Dorion would have to pull a rabbit out of his ass.

I also don't disagree with "Trading a cost controlled D man who may be breaking out... doesn’t make sense" but again, this is not in MY control. I mean, I don't know if you ever felt that Brannstrom was part of the team's long term plans but I haven't. But maybe I'm wrong or maybe they are changing their whole plan as we speak.

Totally agree with the last sentence, I have been saying that for a while. I'd even prefer to have Formenton-Pinto-Brown and have Paul carry the 4th line. Well, I'd have Crookshank-Paul-White as my 4th line. Ideally, we sign a UFA like Giroux or we get a young stud from the draft but that guy most likely won't play in the NHL right away

 

[bert]

Not saying he's bad. Just saying he's not worth 5-6M. Why is Holden only worth 1.3M, while Zub is worth 6M?

Why you think Holden is the comparable to Zub is a little confusing. Start trying to use metrics of real comparable players then go from there. You know similar in age, contract status, production. Zub is absolutely worth 5 million, a d man that can carry a top 4 pairing at 5 million are few and far between. This team has had such a terrible D core for so long and you appear to watch most of the games, I find it a little shocking that something cant recognize how good of player he is. Especially considering how bad the rest of the D men are in comparison.

 

[bicboi64]

Good signing by Dorion. Holden has stepped up his play and this contract is well earned. Its low risk and moveable. Hope Holden keeps up the play next year too