Niagara Ice Dogs 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

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BadgerBruce

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Aug 8, 2013
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Again... you say 9 out of 10 times its because of the parents.... we know of three teams... who are the other 7 out of 10... and how do you know the reasons when nothing but Speculation about the incidents in Ontario has occurred?

You are correct — I only know about the Portland Winterhawks situation.

The WHL claimed 54 violations involving 14 players over a 5 year period.

The Winterhawks accused the WHL of disingenuous arithmetic — for instance, counting each season the captain had a cell phone as a separate offence and a separate player.

Ultimately, if we use the WHL’s math, 47 of the 54 offences were for parental travel — 87%, not 90%.
 
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ETA 2000 Fan

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Apr 16, 2015
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Give this the Columbo treatment. There is a perpetrator. There is likely no victim (who would admit it). Therefore there is a whistle blower, someone with first hand knowledge. Said whistle blower could be one of 19 other clubs competing for players, OR...

Or what? Perhaps it is someone promised something by the perpetrator that had said promise not followed through upon, OR...

Perhaps it is someone promised something by the perpetrator that was followed through upon and then the perpetrator transferred the asset (player) to another organization. Said player arrives at new organization and expects the same deal. New organization says, "What? That's illegal. We can't do that!" Player (or more likely his parents/agent) consider recourse.

In either case there must be evidence. Evidence that such a transgression occurred. You can't prove it's not happening, but only that it once was.

The new team won't give me what I was promised and want, so f*** the old team who promised it and traded me away!

So the question is, who did the perpetrator promise something that so under performed that the perpetrator would renege, OR...

Who did the perpetrator promise something to and follow through upon it, only to trade the player away to a team who wouldn't?

Someone in either of those situations, or some team with first hand knowledge of such a situation is your whistle blower.

Y'all can do the rest.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
You Knights fans are rich, you don't have any more of an idea if London is playing by the rules any more than a fan of a sanctioned team did. Maybe tomorrow, next week, next month or next year you get yours. Unless you truly believe London is above reproach.
Funny thing is, when the crap was going down about Windsor there were some posts made saying that London and Kitchener were also being investigated and they were going to meet the same fate.. of course there were no facts behind it and that never materialized...
 
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Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
You are correct — I only know about the Portland Winterhawks situation.

The WHL claimed 54 violations involving 14 players over a 5 year period.

The Winterhawks accused the WHL of disingenuous arithmetic — for instance, counting each season the captain had a cell phone as a separate offence and a separate player.

Ultimately, if we use the WHL’s math, 47 of the 54 offences were for parental travel — 87%, not 90%.
But... 1 team... isolated incident
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Windsor and now Niagara were caught doing something but before Windsor it was Kitchener who was also accused and settled out of court Kitchener Rangers settle with Michigan student paper over Trouba story | The Star there never been a full explanation of what Windsor did wrong soI doubt we will find the truth what the Icedogs might have done just have to move on.
Kitchener was the plaintiff here... they didn't settle because they were guilty of anything.
 

Naz

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Nov 25, 2008
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Funny thing is, when the crap was going down about Windsor there were some posts made saying that London and Kitchener were also being investigated and they were going to meet the same fate.. of course there were no facts behind it and that never materialized...
It will never happen to London as this is Branch cash cow, I'm sure he gets his palm greased (can't prove) nothing will ever happen to London Branch will make sure of that
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
(can't prove)

This is all that needs to be taken from your post. Heres the thing... theres been enough disgruntled players and families that have gone through London over the years... don't you think that if anything shady were going on that someone would have spoken up? Maybe Alex Jones knows something??
 
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TuckerFan1

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Jul 14, 2012
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It will never happen to London as this is Branch cash cow, I'm sure he gets his palm greased (can't prove) nothing will ever happen to London Branch will make sure of that

London not being caught will have nothing to do with them being cash cows. They simply don't burn bridges with their players. Any kid shipped out of London is either traded to contenders or traded to a team that will give them top minutes. Its hard to issue complaints against them when they put players in the best possible scenarios to win/ get drafted.
 

Knights Watcher

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Jan 7, 2018
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It will never happen to London as this is Branch cash cow, I'm sure he gets his palm greased (can't prove) nothing will ever happen to London Branch will make sure of that
And your proof is? I'll wait.....
Exactly!
 

dirty12

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Mar 6, 2015
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We are unlikely to arrive at a meeting of the minds on this issue, but I do genuinely appreciate the civility several posters are bringing to the discussion. Thank you for this.

Please allow me to clarify my position. It’s a bit complex so your patience would be appreciated.

Tomorrow (February 17, 2019) is the 5th anniversary of Terry Trafford’s last Ontario Hockey League game with the Saginaw Spirit. 2 weeks later, his dead body was found inside his pickup truck in a Michigan Wal-Matt parking lot. Trafford had all of his personal belongings in that truck and $450 in cash that his father had given him.

He’d been missing for 9 days, deceased for at least 7.

In the years following this horrific tragedy — one for which nobody was fined, suspended, or punished with the forfeiture of future draft picks — the CHL partnered with the Canadian Mental Health Association (CMHA) to offer Talk Today, a multi-faceted program primarily designed to help CHL players in mental health distress.

When the program hit full stride in 2016, here is what the CMHA said in the joint press release:

“Talk Today helps address an important concern of which hockey players are not immune. The number of 12- to 19-year-olds at risk for depression is a staggering 3.2 million. Suicide is the second-leading cause of death for young Canadians between the ages of 10 and 24. And 70 per cent of mental health problems are onset during childhood or adolescence.”

Here is what the CHL said in the same press release:

“The CHL, which includes the Ontario Hockey League (OHL), Western Hockey League (WHL) and the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL) work hard to continually review, refine and improve their individual/unique player experiences, the hallmark of which is each league’s comprehensive post-secondary scholarship and education program. Our world class player experience also includes the highest calibre coaching and training facilities, extensive health and safety initiatives, anti-doping, out-of-pocket expense reimbursement, equipment, billeting and travel costs, and mentoring programs that support our players whether they continue to their hockey career at the professional level or pursue their education at a post-secondary institution of their choice.”

CHL and CMHA partner to launch mental health program – CHL

Please read both statements again.

The CMHA draws attention to the “depression epidemic” across North America and the staggering number of young people who need help.
The CHL draws attention to its post-secondary education scholarship program, which they trumpet twice in a press release about mental health initiatives.

A 16 year-old kid doesn’t need a post-secondary education scholarship program when he’s in psychological distress.

A 16 year old boy doesn’t need the highest calibre coaching and training facilities when the stress becomes overwhelming.

He needs his parents because only his parents can be trusted to put his best interests first.

Now, nearly every time a CHL team is penalized by the league for breaching player recruitment policies — none of which are ever published — the heart of the matter ends up being the player’s parents. 9 times out of 10 we learn that a team arranged to pay for the parents to see their child in whatever distant locale he is based.

If this is a violation of league policy, that policy needs to change.

Yes, I appreciate the assertion that some CHL clubs are more financially capable than others to foot the bill for flights or other forms of long distance transportation so that the players can see their parents a few times each season. But in my view, the so-called “playing field” is most responsibly “levelled” by adjusting the policies upward instead of insisting on a policy-driven low standard. This is simply the right thing to do when one oversees minors.

One last word: many years ago, back when 16 year olds could still legally drive without restrictions across Canada, I knew a CHL player with a very young sister born with spinal bifida. This young man, along with his entire family, devoted themselves to providing her with the love and care she deserved.

The young man’s mother was very clear with the team that selected her son in the annual priority selection: unless you provide him with the limited use of an automobile so that he can come home to see his sister once every 2 weeks, he won’t report. Family means more than junior hockey, she told the club.

The team agreed and the player was an important part of the club for several seasons. But this “side agreement” surely violated league policy and there’s no doubt in my mind that the punishment would have been very harsh if the league knew.

But why shouldn’t the league have known, and why shouldn’t the league have supported this “perk,” given the circumstances?

To my mind, the CHL and its 3 leagues are free to punish teams that hand over suitcases stuffed with cash or Mustang convertibles. But punishing teams for using their financial wherewithal to help preserve the mental health of players by periodically reuniting them with their parents and immediate family is ethically wrong.

Revenue sharing and spending rules would have to be agreed upon for your ideal player experience. Until then, Portland is an example of catering to parents wants for Portland’s benefit.
Punish the teams that break the rules. The OHL sanctions are actually lenient compared to NCAA
 

BadgerBruce

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Aug 8, 2013
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Revenue sharing and spending rules would have to be agreed upon for your ideal player experience. Until then, Portland is an example of catering to parents wants for Portland’s benefit.
Punish the teams that break the rules. The OHL sanctions are actually lenient compared to NCAA

You may be correct, but keep in mind that the Winterhawks repeatedly stated their belief that there is no policy preventing clubs from providing transportation for parents to see their children.

“We believe that apart from recruiting trips and parents’ weekend, there is no prohibition in the rules governing flights for players’ parents, which were the majority of the infractions.”

Winterhawks Statement on WHL Sanctions & Suspension – Portland Winterhawks

It’s possible that there isn’t (or wasn’t in 2012) such a policy — the league isn’t exactly transparent when it comes to these things.

However, my suspicion is that Portland provided the flights for parents outside of their contractual agreements with players, meaning arrangements were likely made directly with the parents as independent entities.

If this is the case, those travel arrangements would, in a technical sense, likely fall outside of the Player Recruitment policies, since no deal was struck with any player.

Obviously, this argument didn’t fly with WHL commissioner Ron Robison or Price Waterhouse Coopers, the firm retained to conduct the 2-month investigation.

Now, if teams were allowed to provide transportation assistance to parents, I doubt if it would be universally applicable because not every player is based far away from his parents. Perhaps a simple guideline — say, 500 km or more? — could be used. Revenue sharing probably wouldn’t be needed for this.
 

Buttsy

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Jul 28, 2015
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London
The Ice Dogs are gonna need to win it all this year to tide that fan base over. Just wondering if three dog will continue to update us on attendance numbers when the dogs are basement dwellers for the next 3-4 seasons?

I'm not convinced the loss of picks is that devestating typically teams like the Soo, London, and maybe even Windsor (** however we know how they were partly achieving their results) are always drafting so late in the first round effectively they are second round picks anyway yet they continue to draft, trade and sign free agents to remain on top? The 250k out of an OHL Teams annual budget however is a good chunk of cash and may impact their operations departments? Scouting is one area that may be harmed as an example? BUT I don't see why it has to be a death notice, heck the Spitfires won a Memorial Cup in a year in theory they were still impacted by their own sanctions.
 

three dog night

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May 3, 2014
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Icedogs rompErie 8 to 1 tonight in Erie before 3,700 and change in Erie next up the big four pointer with Sudbury tomorrow afternoon.
 
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