NHL to Seattle Volume XVI - It's Official. Seattle to join the league for 21-22 season.

[Melrose Munch]

Alignment. I think this way:
The following groups would not want to be separated:
Mon/Bos
Det/Tor/Buf/Ott
NYR/NYI/NJD
Pit/Phi

Leaving: Was, Car, Cmb, and the 2 teams in Florida.
Now, you put that together so you have 2 groups of 8.....
Columbus fits ok with Pit/Phi, and then you have Was/Car and Flo/TB. No matter which way you do that, you have groups working across each other on the map.

The thing that really messes up the possibility of a clean Eastern alignment is actually the Montreal/Boston thing. If not for that:

Great Lakes: Montreal, Ott, Tor, Buf, Det, Phi, Pit, Cmb
Atlantic: Bos, NYR, NYI, NJD, Was, Car, Tb, Flo

And, economically, that would work just fine.

Working from that as a start, you could swap Bos for Phi, and leave the names the same, and it also works, but Pit and Phil were strongly against anything that split them up.

So, the result is that it ends up the way it is, because Columbus, Carolina, and Washington want to be as close as possible to their division-mates, and so Tampa and Florida end up out in the cold.

Phi will choose the tri state aand Boston over Pgh.

 

[MNNumbers]

Melrose,

I'm of course trying here to design an eastern setup with contiguous divisions. I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you advocating something like this?
Great Lakes: Bos, Mon, Ott, Buf, Tor, Det, Pit, Cmb
Atlantic: NYR, NYI, NJD, Phi, Was, Car, TBL, Flo

I'd be fine with that, too. Basically, from current, it's trading Pitt and Cmb for TBL and Flo. On the surface, that weakens the Southeastern division (called Atlantic here) because Pitt is stronger than TBL. But, there is a chance that if the Penguins become playoff bubble rather than consistent playoff as Malkin and Crosby age, that Pit as a market will weaken slightly, too.

Let me know if that's what you were thinking. But, my impression at the beginning was that Phi and Pit were opposed to being split up.

 

[MNNumbers]

And, for the CORRECT names for the divisions, see this article:

Report: NHL proposes realignment, new playoff format

Pacific, Midwest, Central and Atlantic

Why they didn't go with that, I will never understand.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

And, for the CORRECT names for the divisions, see this article:

Report: NHL proposes realignment, new playoff format

Pacific, Midwest, Central and Atlantic

Why they didn't go with that, I will never understand.

And with all due respect, we need to go back to the old names: Smythe, Norris, Adams, Patrick. Or how about this? Gretzky instead of Smythe, Hull instead of Norris, Burns instead of Adams and Lemieux instead of Patrick.

 

[MNNumbers]

And with all due respect, we need to go back to the old names: Smythe, Norris, Adams, Patrick. Or how about this? Gretzky instead of Smythe, Hull instead of Norris, Burns instead of Adams and Lemieux instead of Patrick.

I've thought about that a lot, too. And, I keep coming up against:
How does one choose the right names?
Richard
Hull
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Plante
etc.....Too many from which to choose.

However, it may be easier to use the old names for the Conferences, and the divisions:
Pacific, Central, Atlantic, Eastern.

 

[KevFu]

How does one choose the right names?

That's the real reason the NHL went to geographic names when they switched to six divisions. The argument over whom to use when creating two new divisions; as well as the likely "well, why KEEP S/N/A/P names?" discussion limited the blowback.

 

[KevFu]

The current alignment has that flaw. Pittsburgh and Columbus should be with the Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, etc. If you look at the map, Tampa Bay and Miami should be with the BosWash teams.

No one cares about a map though. Teams aren't rivals because of maps. They're rivals because of what happens on the ice.

 

[KevFu]

How do you feel a part of the NHL based on division.

You’re a hockey fan in the Southeast or Southwest and you watch the NHL from 1982 to 1992 NHL…
Norris: DET, CHI, STL, MIN, TOR
Smythe: VAN, LA, EDM, WIN, CAL
Adams: MON, BOS, BUF, HART, QUE
Patrick: NYR, NYI, NJD, PHI, PIT, WAS

That’s the NHL. Your city finally gets a team, you open the standings in the 1999-2000 season and the standings there’s 19 of those teams, and then there's you:

Southeast: ATL, CAR, FLA, TB, WAS
Southwest: SJ, ANA, PHX, DAL, LA

 

[No Fun Shogun]

And, for the CORRECT names for the divisions, see this article:

Report: NHL proposes realignment, new playoff format

Pacific, Midwest, Central and Atlantic

Why they didn't go with that, I will never understand.

As a Midwesterner, I did cringe incredibly hard at the notion of the Hawks being in a "Midwest" Division" when only 3 of the 7 teams were in the actual Midwestern United States when that proposed alignment was announced, not going to lie.

 

[MNNumbers]

As a Midwesterner, I did cringe incredibly hard at the notion of the Hawks being in a "Midwest" Division" when only 3 of the 7 teams were in the actual Midwestern United States when that proposed alignment was announced, not going to lie.

Curious as to how you define "Midwest"? I suppose you would mean...Chi, Min and StL for your three teams?

This combination, however, is less a cringe-worthy to me than Metropolitan....(which clearly came from the blue suits in Manhattan and means.....NY, PHI, WAS mega-metro area and associates ------ yuck....)

And, as I have often said....Best would be alternate conference names and the Divisions:
Pacific
Central
Eastern (NE corridor + Florida)
Atlantic

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I would say that this is the absolute broadest acceptable definition of "Midwest:"

And even that is a bit much, as I'd say that the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas are more Great Plains states than Midwest states, but fine... I'll throw them a bone and say that they are part of the club, too. If only one or two teams were located out of that area, sure, Midwest Division would be fine. Not when over half is out of it, though.

As for the Metro name, yup. Dumb. Never denied that one.

 

[MNNumbers]

I would say that this is the absolute broadest acceptable definition of "Midwest:"

And even that is a bit much, as I'd say that the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas are more Great Plains states than Midwest states, but fine... I'll throw them a bone and say that they are part of the club, too. If only one or two teams were located out of that area, sure, Midwest Division would be fine. Not when over half is out of it, though.

As for the Metro name, yup. Dumb. Never denied that one.

And, I assume you would classify Winnipeg as "Prairie", there being no real history of a word like "Midwest" in Canadian frontier development history. And, "Prairie" would be parallel to 'Great Plains'?

I'm with you on this, although it's not really strongly hockey related. Personally, for the purposes of NHL, I think 'Great Plains' is a narrow enough definition that it can be discarded.

The hard part, to me, is, How do you define "Midwest" versus "Central"?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

My logic was that essentially labeling that proposed division "Midwest" was just easterners not knowing anything about the supposed flyover areas and just tossing a recognized word onto it. It was a bit of a middle finger at worst or an example of the NHL higher ups being completely out of touch at more likely.

Central is easy, essentially anything that's mostly centrally located. In the Western Conference, it was easy, literally the center of the continent. If that had been ported to the East, it would've been odd, but the center of the eastern seaboard, I guess.

 

[MNNumbers]

My logic was that essentially labeling that proposed division "Midwest" was just easterners not knowing anything about the supposed flyover areas and just tossing a recognized word onto it. It was a bit of a middle finger at worst or an example of the NHL higher ups being completely out of touch at more likely.

Central is easy, essentially anything that's mostly centrally located. In the Western Conference, it was easy, literally the center of the continent. If that had been ported to the East, it would've been odd, but the center of the eastern seaboard, I guess.

This is what I mean, though. Suppose you want to use both Midwest and Central.....

Since, in one sense, both words cover a measure of the same territory, they become just "Labels". Now, some would say that since they are geographic words, this use of just "Labels" is less a problem that Norris Smythe Adams Patrick. In other words, it 'sounds' more normal. And, if the intention of the league is to be mainstream, then, for some marketing reason, I get that. It's one less piece of information you have to learn to become a fan.

Nevertheless, they are yet, just 'words', which wouldn't really mean anything in geographic terms except in the very broadest sense.

Since they chose Eastern and Western for conference names, they can't use those words for the divisions, so they have to use something else, and that's problematic because of the alignment.

I wondered about 'Colonial' at one point, but that is also indistinct. What I hate is that Atlantic was perfect for what they call the Metro now, because for all of my life, NY, PA, have been called "Atlantic" colonies. Carolina is too far south, of course, and Columbus is Ohio. But the rest is a perfect fit. The problem is that there is no good word for the NE Corridor teams when combined with Florida. Unless you have one?

 

[TheLegend]

Say hello "Coach Q".

 

[KevFu]

That's why they should have gone back to SNAP. Like you said, most the teams that are in the Metro Division now were in the Atlantic Division before. So now it's "Wait, who's the Atlantic now? Oh, the Old Adams. The Old Patrick is the Metro now."

So just call them the damned Adams and Patrick.

 

[gstommylee]

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Say hello "Coach Q".

I would be legit shocked if Q wanted to a) wait that long (even recognizing he's getting paid through the end of next year), and b) essentially start from scratch from a roster-perspective.

 

[gstommylee]

Say hello "Coach Q".

I had the thought of they already have a coach decided and has yet to announce him. Maybe the former chicago coach or someone else.

I would be legit shocked if Q wanted to a) wait that long (even recognizing he's getting paid through the end of next year), and b) essentially start from scratch from a roster-perspective.

Or anyone for that matter but still it just make me wonder if like i said they already have one.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Say hello "Coach Q".

I had the thought of they already have a coach decided and has yet to announce him. Maybe the former chicago coach or someone else.

Or anyone for that matter but still it just make me wonder if like i said they already have one.

Well, look. They probably have a coach in mind, but that announcement will wait until the appropriate time. That all said, you have to know that the minute he was shown the door there, one would have to guess Tippett/Leiweke were probably on the phone to his representation about exactly this. That Quenneville hasn't been hired yet by ANYONE after what happened the other day should speak volumes. I mean, when the Bruins fired Julien, didn't it take Montreal like, what, 24 hours, to name him their coach?

And as I have noted already, I honestly didn't expect Tippett was going to be the coach up here anyway. Remember what I opined then about that. Him doing this job he's doing with NHL/Seattle is probably more about him keeping his skin in the game so to speak while being able to be closer to his family that live up here in western Washington. Sort of a semi-retirement if you'd even want to call it that.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

That's why they should have gone back to SNAP. Like you said, most the teams that are in the Metro Division now were in the Atlantic Division before. So now it's "Wait, who's the Atlantic now? Oh, the Old Adams. The Old Patrick is the Metro now."

So just call them the damned Adams and Patrick.

Although, speaking for the newer markets, who (certainly in my case) didn't follow the NHL closely before 1993...most of us never memorized those divisions and conferences, and thought it rather silly that they were named as such. Only reason I know anything about any of them is that Chris Berman (ESPN) kept referring to the NFL Central as the Norris, due to the overlap of cities.

 

[MNNumbers]

Although, speaking for the newer markets, who (certainly in my case) didn't follow the NHL closely before 1993...most of us never memorized those divisions and conferences, and thought it rather silly that they were named as such. Only reason I know anything about any of them is that Chris Berman (ESPN) kept referring to the NFL Central as the Norris, due to the overlap of cities.

This is my idea, exactly, and I am sure it's why the league changed it. NHL brass want to be 'mainstream'. They want to appear relevant nationally. You can't do that if you have an unusual, quaint naming system for your divisions. So, they had to go to geography.

DOM -
If it's interesting to you....I think Metro is a hashed together name. It's elitist with respect to the NY-Phi- Was megalopolis. If we were doing something else, what would be your preference?

 

[LadyStanley]

Say hello "Coach Q".

I would be legit shocked if Q wanted to a) wait that long (even recognizing he's getting paid through the end of next year), and b) essentially start from scratch from a roster-perspective.

As discussed in the podcast, Q is under contract for $6m for this season and next.

Can Seattle AFFORD $6m/year for a coach (doing "nothing")? ($6m is the minimum they'd have to pay to get him off the Chicago payroll.) Do they want to pay that much for a coach? And that's just holding the place until contract runs out (after 2019-2020 season); he won't even get behind the bench until fall 2020 as coach for Seattle.

And on the other side.... Does Q want to continue coaching? Does he want the challenge of an expansion team?

 

[gstommylee]

As discussed in the podcast, Q is under contract for $6m for this season and next.

Can Seattle AFFORD $6m/year for a coach (doing "nothing")? ($6m is the minimum they'd have to pay to get him off the Chicago payroll.) Do they want to pay that much for a coach? And that's just holding the place until contract runs out (after 2019-2020 season); he won't even get behind the bench until fall 2020 as coach for Seattle.

And on the other side.... Does Q want to continue coaching? Does he want the challenge of an expansion team?

Thats 2020 at the earilest. The same thing would apply to any GM too. Why the wait if he can get a coaching job or GM job sooner.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

This is my idea, exactly, and I am sure it's why the league changed it. NHL brass want to be 'mainstream'. They want to appear relevant nationally. You can't do that if you have an unusual, quaint naming system for your divisions. So, they had to go to geography.

DOM -
If it's interesting to you....I think Metro is a hashed together name. It's elitist with respect to the NY-Phi- Was megalopolis. If we were doing something else, what would be your preference?

Yeesh. If it was just names...the problem is the gerrymandering they feel they had to do to not break up certain rivalries. If I were king of the realignment, I'd probably upset PA people by kicking out the Penguins and Blue Jackets for Florida and Tampa Bay, call that division 'Atlantic' instead of 'Metro' and the other one 'North...east...erly' or something.

(looks up) crap, here I am again discussing alignment issues in the Seattle thread. That's twice now.