NHL to Seattle Volume XVI - It's Official. Seattle to join the league for 21-22 season.

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Fenway, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Fenway

    Fenway RIP Fugu Sponsor

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  2. gstommylee

    gstommylee Registered User

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    Question on my chart do people want to see all 16 teams? or just the 4 teams?


    With that send is it better for central division to have arizona/colorado distance wise or edmonton/Calgary distance wise.

    Remember think of central division as a whole not individual teams.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  3. Hynh

    Hynh Registered User

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    If that happens they should still get rid of divisions but instead go to four conferences. If there's no extra regular season games against the other division in your "conference" then why do you have to play their champion instead of being re-seeded in the semifinals?
     
  4. gstommylee

    gstommylee Registered User

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    I doubt the NHL would do that.
     
  5. OVO16

    OVO16 #WeTheNorth

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    Are the west really gonna have 2 more teams than the East? How's that gonna play out in terms of playoff seeding?

    Still 8 teams from each side? West teams would be at a disadvantage
     
  6. gstommylee

    gstommylee Registered User

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    what exactly are you talking about? its currentl 15/16 with eastern conference having one more team. Seattle makes it 16/16.
     
  7. KevFu

    KevFu Registered User

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    And if Houston and Quebec were added, it would be 17/17. Quebec was "deferred" and the only real reason cited was geographic imbalance.
     
  8. LeafalCrusader

    LeafalCrusader Registered User

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    Should do 4 conferences each with 2 divisions of 4. Play division rivals 6x, Conference rivals 4 x, Non Conference teams 2 x for a total of

    82 games
     
  9. BKIslandersFan

    BKIslandersFan Registered User

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    17 per conference? Then division would be uneven, unless you want to go without it.
     
  10. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    Why would you doubt it, when, 6 years so, they said they were going to do exactly that, until the PA vetoed it on grounds that wouldn't exist this time?
     
  11. snovalleyhockeyfan

    snovalleyhockeyfan I'm just the messenger.....

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    I'll go ahead and chime in my two cents noting that TSN's Frank Seravalli (https://www.tsn.ca/seattle-one-vote-away-from-becoming-nhl-s-32nd-home-1.1184804) is suggesting that the realignment would be AZ to Central and keeping CGY/EDM in Pacific. And that's what I think you'll see too. Tommy is correct - CGY/EDM are closer destinations to SEA than AZ/COL, and while having both of them would be OK, too, the league might be better off from a $$$ perspective to have CGY and EDM in the division with SEA because that will mean extra Canadian national TV broadcasts from here. You'd have to think that Seattle will become a significant destination for Rogers for West Coast games because of the shortness of the trip from Vancouver, so the more Canadian team games on Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday nights the better for them from a $$$ perspective. Fenway, care to comment?
     
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  12. Agalloch

    Agalloch EliteProspects

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    Now... what will happen with division ? Coyotes to Central ?

    If the Coyotes move to Houston, they would stay in the same division too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  13. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    Here's how I look at the alignment question....

    We all know it's about money to the owners. There is no question about that.
    However....I think it's actually about LOCAL money, not national money. There will always be enough national games that the league doesn't need to make the alignment for the sake of having enough such games.
    The Alignment is so that every team has enough same time-zone start times. That's where the local media $$ comes from. That's especially why no one likes to have lots of games 2 time zones away....The TV audience is much less, and broadcasters know that.

    With that in mind, I suggest that the league won't care how many times Seattle plays Edm/Cgy. What the league will care about is....Is there a significant difference in local revenue depending on how we re-align?

    And, considering how HOT the Seattle market seems to be, I don't think that 'What's best for Seattle?' is going to be a consideration.

    What will happen to Calgary's local TV MIGHT be.... Edmonton...I doubt it because the fandom there is fairly rabid.

    And, along with all of that, the other factor is...6:00 start times for MTZ zone teams are better than 8:30 starts, because of how late the game runs.

    Put all of that together and it's a 50/50 proposition.

    Moving AZ to the Central kills the Coyotes for 1/3 of the season, and it's an important 1/3 (start and finish). Now, it's true that you COULD mitigate that somewhat by playing their road games on the West Coast during the first month of the season. You COULD do that. But, it doesn't change the circumstances for the other Central teams, who are going to play road games TWO time zones to the west of their home. That will make it more difficult for those teams to negotiate their local broadcast contracts.

    On the other hand, the only two problems I can see with moving Calgary and Edmonton are travel (And, KevFu is correct. Arena availability is for more important for the actual amount of travel than pure geography.) and rivals. But, to me, the 'rivals' part is mostly mitigated because Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, and Seattle are already going to be sold out. What about road games? Well, no one will have to play any division games two time zones away, so it's best for them as well.

    Tommy, you keep saying that moving the Alberta teams is a horrible thing for 5 teams. I'm sorry. I just don't see it.
     
  14. powerstuck

    powerstuck Nordiques Hopes Lies

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    Congrats Seattle.

    When it comes to divisions and alignment...all arguments are good. The way I see it, any division retooling needs to also be voted by the league.
    And this is where is comes tricky...most talk seems to be around scenario A (Coyotes get moved and screwed) or scenario B (Edm/Cgy/Col...). I guess east coast teams may have some free booze offered to them in exchange of a vote.

    Also, I may be wrong but time-zones are really important only for TV. And...as much it sucks, Coyotes aren't the biggest draw in the league in that department.
     
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  15. oilers9799

    oilers9799 Registered User

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    Seattle will be an instant rival with Edmonton & Calgary. Edmontonians and Calgarians often fly to Seattle for Seahawks games, there will be an even larger contingent when you have weekends where the Oilers and Flames are in town. I think from a $$$ perspective it makes sense to have Seattle in the same division. It is only about 1.5 hour direct flight from both Edmonton & Calgary.
     
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  16. powerstuck

    powerstuck Nordiques Hopes Lies

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    Divisions are already uneven...so history is there.
    Besides, I don't see the league adding 4 teams at once (so going 18-18), so inevitably we may see in a future 17 conferences, and even on short term uneven conferences (16-17, 17-18).
     
  17. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    Who is paying the expansion fee?
     
  18. powerstuck

    powerstuck Nordiques Hopes Lies

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    20 years down the road...someone will.
     
  19. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    ^^^
    Fascinating.

    I have no idea what's going to happen in 5 years, and you are thinking 20 years down the road. Wow.....

    I think the BOG is happy about 32 teams.
    I think that Jacobs especially wants Houston, but Fertitta doesn't want to pay enough, so Jacobs might be a little frustrated by that.
    I think both of those 2 things because of what Jacobs has said before. Houston and Seattle are the only places that might actually help the league get a bigger TV contract.
    I don't think the BOG cares about Quebec, except in an emergency. I don't think they care about Hamilton or Southern Ontario at all.
    And, I think the BOG knows that both Calgary and Arizona have challenges. Calgary's is not nearly as severe as Arizona's.
    I think the BOG also knows that Florida and Carolina are safe for now, but in the next round of lease negotiations, might be in trouble.
    I think the BOG really hopes the Islanders deal at Belmont goes through.

    For all of those reasons....32 is great. And, Houston and Quebec are there in case there is an emergency.
     
  20. snovalleyhockeyfan

    snovalleyhockeyfan I'm just the messenger.....

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    Exactly the point I and I think Tommy are also trying to make, but from different viewpoints.
     
  21. snovalleyhockeyfan

    snovalleyhockeyfan I'm just the messenger.....

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    Very fair points, MNN. I however think that it will be a TV decision entirely, and not NBC's call either.
     
  22. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    That's what I'm saying. NBC isn't going to care, because in the first place, their national games usually involve teams from the Northeast or Chicago. They don't need a whole bunch of Seattle v Edmonton games to get their value out of their national contract.

    Rogers and Bell probably don't care (at least I can't see why they would) if it's Calgary v Vancouver or Calgary v Edmonton.

    So, it comes down to LOCAL TV money. That's the reason everyone is in close time zone proximity already.

    I can't see where it is any disadvantage to the local TV contract of any of these teams if CGY/EDM move to the Central... Cgy, Edm, Van, Col, Sea. I just can't see it. The local TV viewer is going to watch his/her team no matter the opponent. The CGY viewer is more likely to watch a whole game in played in Winnipeg compared to LA for time zone reasons.

    However, ALL of the Central Time Zone teams, and Arizona itself, are going to have fewer viewers for any games played on the road between Arz and a CTZ team in October or in March. That's because it's 2 hours away. It either starts too early or too late.

    That's the reason that the 'easy thing' doesn't look so easy to me.
     
  23. snovalleyhockeyfan

    snovalleyhockeyfan I'm just the messenger.....

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    And you're right. Seattle would be fine with AZ/COL in the division just as much as they would be with CGY/EDM. But let me ask you this question, MN:

    From a $$$ standpoint entirely, accounting for all revenue as opposed to just TV, which do you think would make more sense for the league and Seattle - having CGY and EDM travel to Seattle for divisional games twice a season or just once as a non-divisional game, especially when you factor in the long-term? All dates against Western Canadian teams will be sellouts regardless of year regardless of situation, whereas you might have trouble down the road here in Seattle selling out AZ and COL as those aren't "draw" teams. For Seattle, I see the "draw" teams as the following: NYR, PIT, BOS, DET, CHI, WSH, LA, SJ, PHI, and possibly BUF...you know, the "big" teams. Not AZ or COL. So if you're Oak View and the league, which alignment allows Seattle to generate more revenue? Seattle fans really aren't going to care who's in the damn division, but if you're the Leiweke's, who would be better for you for your overall balance sheet five years down the road if this doesn't take off like we all think it will based on the season ticket drive?

    The other thing to think about too is this: Every other league - the NFL, NBA and MLB, and this really is an NBA and MLB thing primarily - has divisional travel over two time zones. Seattle is in an MLB division where two of their rivals, Texas and Houston, are located in the Central Time Zone, and if the NBA expands, it's likely Seattle will be placed in a division that might include Minnesota, another CTZ team. It's an issue that impacts every league and why the NHL should be exempted from that I have no clue.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  24. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe Seattle Sin Bin

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    You are looking at Impacting 4-5 franchises in place of one franchise. Vancouver, Seattle, Calgary, Edmonton all lose if you move the Alberta teams. What is the impact of Colorado going to the west? If Arizona was completely in the PST, then there would be a stronger argument IMHO to keep them in the west and move the Alberta teams, but be that they spend the majority of the year in Mountain Time zone, I don't think the impact on that franchise compared to the other 5 would be equitable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  25. gstommylee

    gstommylee Registered User

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    And guess what you are telling the central division that you must travel much further for games. It is horrible cause you are basically making all 8 teams travel further for divisional games. Central division isn't close together like it is in the pacific time zone. Thus there will be more travel distance.

    The NHL is not going to screw half the league just to keep 1 where its at. And the owners aren't going to do that either. They didn't screw detroit or columbus just to get quebec.
     

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