NHL to Seattle Volume XVI - It's Official. Seattle to join the league for 21-22 season.

[tony d]

All sounds full steam ahead for the Seattle NHL team. That's great. Seattle Emeralds would be my team name choice.

 

[BattleBorn]

NHL Seattle sees Thunderbirds as an ally in raising hockey's profile locally

I went to a Thunderbirds game Saturday and they announced NHL Seattle was at the game. Apparently, Leiweke was there personally.

Just to add some fuel to the naming flame, here we go:

“I haven’t been to a junior game in some number of years,” Leiweke said. “It’s awesome, great building, great fans, great logo. I hope we can do as well, it’s beautiful..."

 

[rojac]

All sounds full steam ahead for the Seattle NHL team. That's great. Seattle Emeralds would be my team name choice.

That would be my choice too.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

NHL Seattle sees Thunderbirds as an ally in raising hockey's profile locally

I went to a Thunderbirds game Saturday and they announced NHL Seattle was at the game. Apparently, Leiweke was there personally.

Just to add some fuel to the naming flame, here we go:

Please. Thunderbirds would be the best, most iconic name for them. I actively hope they get the rights to the Birds moniker.

 

[gstommylee]

Please. Thunderbirds would be the best, most iconic name for them. I actively hope they get the rights to the Birds moniker.

And kiss good bye the current logo and colors. I rather the WHL keep that brand than to have to modify it just cause of the color issue.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Chinooks. Just listen to me. Colors are blue, green and silver.

 

[KevFu]

The reuse of an older name just feels lazy to me and in my opinion makes sports fan look like simpletons — gosh, maybe no one will know it’s a Winnipeg NHL team if it’s not named the Jets.

But I’ve never understood naming children after relatives either.

And don’t get me started on the whole NBA and NFL garbage of giving away a franchise’s records to a completely different entity.

I think it has more to do with "there's nostalgia/fond memories and goodwill/love for the other name - like the Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques or Hartford Whalers.

I'm with you on the kids thing, though. I know a couple of families where every male in the family has the same first and last names, but different middle names. So all of them go by their middle names. Why not flip that and name everyone "Different Same Same" instead of "Same Different Same, but I go by Different."

I have no problem with the sports franchise records because it's literally a piece of paper and a technicality. Legally speaking, the Boston Celtics moved to San Diego in 1978 (they are the Clippers now) and the current Boston Celtics are the old Buffalo Braves. But the league decided that the history following the ownership is just stupid, so the NBA considers it two franchise sales. The people of Phoenix never rooted for the Jets, the people of Winnipeg never rooted for the Thrashers. Why do they have those histories? Because seven owners ago bought the team from a guy in Winnipeg? Because True North bought a team from a guy in Atlanta?

The NFL mandating the "Cleveland Browns rule" was genius. I'd add it into the league constitutions going forward: If you leave your designated market, you must rebrand and leave the name and records behind. League will take stewardship and if someone returns, it's gifted back to that city.

That makes way more sense nowadays. If a market is big enough to have a big league sports franchise, it's likely they're going to get a replacement eventually when someone leaves.

 

[KevFu]

Pilots not only fly planes but were the so called captains of the ferries I believe.

The Pilots were marine escort ships that protected cargo ships from pirates. At least, that's how the Portland Pilots college team got their name, and since Seattle is a bigger port than Portland (go figure), it makes sense that they're talking about the same thing.

 

[gstommylee]

Chinooks. Just listen to me. Colors are blue, green and silver.

green and blue combo is already out.

 

[Spanky185]

I think it has more to do with "there's nostalgia/fond memories and goodwill/love for the other name - like the Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques or Hartford Whalers.

I'm with you on the kids thing, though. I know a couple of families where every male in the family has the same first and last names, but different middle names. So all of them go by their middle names. Why not flip that and name everyone "Different Same Same" instead of "Same Different Same, but I go by Different."

I have no problem with the sports franchise records because it's literally a piece of paper and a technicality. Legally speaking, the Boston Celtics moved to San Diego in 1978 (they are the Clippers now) and the current Boston Celtics are the old Buffalo Braves. But the league decided that the history following the ownership is just stupid, so the NBA considers it two franchise sales. The people of Phoenix never rooted for the Jets, the people of Winnipeg never rooted for the Thrashers. Why do they have those histories? Because seven owners ago bought the team from a guy in Winnipeg? Because True North bought a team from a guy in Atlanta?

The NFL mandating the "Cleveland Browns rule" was genius. I'd add it into the league constitutions going forward: If you leave your designated market, you must rebrand and leave the name and records behind. League will take stewardship and if someone returns, it's gifted back to that city.

That makes way more sense nowadays. If a market is big enough to have a big league sports franchise, it's likely they're going to get a replacement eventually when someone leaves.

Leaving the records behind would have created a mess throughout MLBs history. Would the Mets have got the dodgers and giants records? So I disagree that records stay with the city if a franchise moves. Now a franchise folding is different. If a new team is formed then Imo they should have a right of refusal to the past records.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

green and blue combo is already out.

You don't need both. You can pick one or the other.

 

[KevFu]

Leaving the records behind would have created a mess throughout MLBs history. Would the Mets have got the dodgers and giants records? So I disagree that records stay with the city if a franchise moves.

Oh totally. It would be insane to enforce retroactively.
But “going forward” it’s probably a good idea that teams which move vacate their history.

Now a franchise folding is different. If a new team is formed then Imo they should have a right of refusal to the past records.

That’s irrelevant because franchises don’t fold. The Big Four have had ONE TEAM fold since 1953. MLB hasn’t had one fold since 1915.

 

[brewski420]

The Pilots were marine escort ships that protected cargo ships from pirates. At least, that's how the Portland Pilots college team got their name, and since Seattle is a bigger port than Portland (go figure), it makes sense that they're talking about the same thing.

According to Wikipedia the Pilots actually guided cargo ships captains through shallow water normally found in ports. Not really captaining the ship but more like traffic control if I am reading this correctly.

Maritime pilot - Wikipedia

Whatever I still like the name for Seattle NHL regardless if it associated with a team no one remembers or the Brewers own the name. I doubt it would be much of an issue for them to release it ($$). That is just my preference and opinion. Nothing else.

 

[Spanky185]

Oh totally. It would be insane to enforce retroactively.
But “going forward” it’s probably a good idea that teams which move vacate their history.

After making my post I thought some more about this, and it occurred to me that when teams move now they usually change their name. That makes vacating their history a bit easier to swallow. But what happens if they keep their name and a new team is formed in the old city?

That’s irrelevant because franchises don’t fold. The Big Four have had ONE TEAM fold since 1953. MLB hasn’t had one fold since 1915.

More referring to if a new franchise is formed in a city that had a team fold.

 

[gstommylee]

As of today City of seattle hands over the keys of Key arena over to OVG.

 

[rojac]

I think it has more to do with "there's nostalgia/fond memories and goodwill/love for the other name - like the Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques or Hartford Whalers.

I'm with you on the kids thing, though. I know a couple of families where every male in the family has the same first and last names, but different middle names. So all of them go by their middle names. Why not flip that and name everyone "Different Same Same" instead of "Same Different Same, but I go by Different."

I have no problem with the sports franchise records because it's literally a piece of paper and a technicality. Legally speaking, the Boston Celtics moved to San Diego in 1978 (they are the Clippers now) and the current Boston Celtics are the old Buffalo Braves. But the league decided that the history following the ownership is just stupid, so the NBA considers it two franchise sales. The people of Phoenix never rooted for the Jets, the people of Winnipeg never rooted for the Thrashers. Why do they have those histories? Because seven owners ago bought the team from a guy in Winnipeg? Because True North bought a team from a guy in Atlanta?

The NFL mandating the "Cleveland Browns rule" was genius. I'd add it into the league constitutions going forward: If you leave your designated market, you must rebrand and leave the name and records behind. League will take stewardship and if someone returns, it's gifted back to that city.

That makes way more sense nowadays. If a market is big enough to have a big league sports franchise, it's likely they're going to get a replacement eventually when someone leaves.

I just think your method of handling records makes tracing a league’s history way too complex.

And as for nostalgia, I grew up a Montreal Expos fan, following them from 1972 until 2004 when they moved to Washington and became the Nationals. I loved the Expos name and their logo; however, if Montreal gets another MLB team, the last thing I want the team called is the Expos (unless the Nationals are moving to Montreal). I will probably not follow them if they do that. However, if they take a different name, I am far more likely to follow them. It would just feel intellectually dishonest to follow a team called the Expos when I lnow the real Expos are still in DC.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

As of today City of seattle hands over the keys of Key arena over to OVG.

Same day Paul Allen passes away, RIP. I know he means/meant a lot to that part of the country.

 

[gstommylee]

Same day Paul Allen passes away, RIP. I know he means/meant a lot to that part of the country.

He saved the seahawks, build Centurylink field. If he didn't do that, we would never kept the seahawks nor we would have gotten the Sounders with out building our own stadium.

 

[KevFu]

I just think your method of handling records makes tracing a league’s history way too complex.

And as for nostalgia, I grew up a Montreal Expos fan, following them from 1972 until 2004 when they moved to Washington and became the Nationals. I loved the Expos name and their logo; however, if Montreal gets another MLB team, the last thing I want the team called is the Expos (unless the Nationals are moving to Montreal). I will probably not follow them if they do that. However, if they take a different name, I am far more likely to follow them. It would just feel intellectually dishonest to follow a team called the Expos when I lnow the real Expos are still in DC.

But it's always going to complicated no matter which route you take. Who's the Winnipeg Jets all-time leading scorer?

People like to act as if all that matters is what is "official." That's non-sense. We have language and how people use language dictates everything. (Case in point: "the Atlanta Braves won 13 consecutive division titles" is false. Correct would be: "the Atlanta Braves won 13 consecutive division titles, not counting the strike-shortened season." People got lazy and dropped the qualifying clause of the sentence. And now people believe that there the 1994 MLB season "officially never happened" I guess. But that can't be true because all the stats and records from 1994 totally do count in the annalls of baseball history. Same as 1981. We just know there was weird circumstances and move on).

So I say we just accept the weird circumstances we all know exist, and stop using "well, officially" or "well technically." Because no one actually cares (other than sounding smart). If you word something correctly, it will be accurate and make sense:

Shane Doan (402) is the Coyotes’ all-time leading scorer
Dale Hawerhuck (379) is the Jets all-time leading scorer
Ilya Kovalchuk (328) is the Thrashers’ all-time leading scorer.

No one gives a (off-color word) that there’s TWO franchises and not three.

“Well, technically, Kovalchuk is the Jets franchise leader…” is stupid, because Kovalchuk never played a single game wearing a Jets uniform. Shane Doan scored 402 goals for one franchise. We all accept that 7 came for Winnipeg and the rest with Phoenix/Arizona, but we're not going to short him his seven goals.

 

[Hynh]

The Toronto Maple Leafs should likely be inluded in the second group, as it seems likely that Smythe stole the name from the Toronto International League baseball team. And don’t forget the Montreal Allouettes — that’s a ridiculous mess.

Other than being based in the same city, the newer teams have nothing to do with the older teams. The reuse of an older name just feels lazy to me and in my opinion makes sports fan look like simpletons — gosh, maybe no one will know it’s a Winnipeg NHL team if it’s not named the Jets. Or perhaps, they’re simple delusional and want to pretend that their former team never left - especially when the former team still exists. To me, the only way a current Winnipeg team should have had the name Jets was if the Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes had moved back to the city.

But I guess it depends on how you view spots teams. I view them as corporate entities that happen to be based in a particular city. And a newer team is different corporate entity. Air Canada is not a different company beige it is now based in Toronto instead of Montreal. Others take the more romantic view that the teams are some sort of community trust. A view that strikes me as being as delusional as the view that the Olympics used to be for amateurs because they wanted some kind of purity of sport as opposed to a way of restricting the event to the aristocratic class.

But I’ve never understood naming children after relatives either. And one of the creepiest things I’ve ever heard of is that my grandparents had son who they named David James and who died shortly after birth. A few years later, my father was born and rather than giving him a new unique name, they simply reused David James. A new baby, like a new sports team, is a new entity that should be given a new name as opposed to saddling it with the name of some previous entity.

And don’t get me started on the whole NBA and NFL garbage of giving away a franchise’s records to a completely different entity.

I guess you're not a fan of the "Ship of Theseus" thought problem.

Chinooks. Just listen to me. Colors are blue, green and silver.

Doesn't the pronunciation of Chinook vary depending on which side of the mountains you're on?

 

[KevFu]

And as for nostalgia, I grew up a Montreal Expos fan, following them from 1972 until 2004 when they moved to Washington and became the Nationals. I loved the Expos name and their logo; however, if Montreal gets another MLB team, the last thing I want the team called is the Expos (unless the Nationals are moving to Montreal). I will probably not follow them if they do that. However, if they take a different name, I am far more likely to follow them. It would just feel intellectually dishonest to follow a team called the Expos when I lnow the real Expos are still in DC.

I disagree with you, but I've also never had my soul ripped out by my team leaving town. You're totally entitled to your opinion with zero judgement. I'm not saying "you're wrong to feel that way," I'm saying "here's why I view it differently."

When Montreal gets an MLB team again, are they going to honor Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Rusty Staub, Tim Raines and Vlad Guerrero? I'm a Mets fan. I respected the Canadiens for buying Youppi from the new Nationals owners, raising an Expos banner, and I never respected the Habs more than their tribute to Gary Carter upon his passing. Nationals fans didn't grieve Carter's death. Mets fans, and Canadiens/Expos fans did. The Nationals have Kid in their ring of honor and did a polite tribute, but he belonged to US in Montreal & New York, not Washington DC. Ditto Rusty Staub.

I understand that the move to DC doesn't fill you with happiness, and seeing a "New Expos team" would remind you of the rage over how MLB allowed Loria to treat Montreal. But I don't see how a new team name does anything to prevent that. To me, the new ballpark is going to bring memories of the Expos because OF COURSE a new Montreal team would honor the Expos legacy. The gap between Expos and new team would still exist in the memory of old Expos fans.

As someone who grew up watching the Mets and Expos play in the same division, I reject the idea that the Nationals are "the REAL Expos." Jerry Seinfeld says "you're rooting for a shirt" because the players change. If the players, the shirt and the city all change... there's nothing Expos left. Calling the Nationals the "real Expos" is like saying "the THING you owned doesn't matter as much as the receipt for the thing you owned."


Again, I firmly believe that if your team leaves you, every fan is entitled to react to that in their own way with zero judgement from other sports fans, because the act of a team leaving is illogical and irrational, so all "rational sports fan logic" is completely irrelevant.

 

[KevFu]

According to Wikipedia the Pilots actually guided cargo ships captains through shallow water normally found in ports. Not really captaining the ship but more like traffic control if I am reading this correctly.

Maritime pilot - Wikipedia

Whatever I still like the name for Seattle NHL regardless if it associated with a team no one remembers or the Brewers own the name. I doubt it would be much of an issue for them to release it ($$). That is just my preference and opinion. Nothing else.

Aah, that's right. I read that all in the past and didn't recall it correctly. Good looking out.

 

[rojac]

I disagree with you, but I've also never had my soul ripped out by my team leaving town. You're totally entitled to your opinion with zero judgement. I'm not saying "you're wrong to feel that way," I'm saying "here's why I view it differently."

When Montreal gets an MLB team again, are they going to honor Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Rusty Staub, Tim Raines and Vlad Guerrero? I'm a Mets fan. I respected the Canadiens for buying Youppi from the new Nationals owners, raising an Expos banner, and I never respected the Habs more than their tribute to Gary Carter upon his passing. Nationals fans didn't grieve Carter's death. Mets fans, and Canadiens/Expos fans did. The Nationals have Kid in their ring of honor and did a polite tribute, but he belonged to US in Montreal & New York, not Washington DC. Ditto Rusty Staub.

I understand that the move to DC doesn't fill you with happiness, and seeing a "New Expos team" would remind you of the rage over how MLB allowed Loria to treat Montreal. But I don't see how a new team name does anything to prevent that. To me, the new ballpark is going to bring memories of the Expos because OF COURSE a new Montreal team would honor the Expos legacy. The gap between Expos and new team would still exist in the memory of old Expos fans.

As someone who grew up watching the Mets and Expos play in the same division, I reject the idea that the Nationals are "the REAL Expos." Jerry Seinfeld says "you're rooting for a shirt" because the players change. If the players, the shirt and the city all change... there's nothing Expos left. Calling the Nationals the "real Expos" is like saying "the THING you owned doesn't matter as much as the receipt for the thing you owned."


Again, I firmly believe that if your team leaves you, every fan is entitled to react to that in their own way with zero judgement from other sports fans, because the act of a team leaving is illogical and irrational, so all "rational sports fan logic" is completely irrelevant.

Please do not depict me as someone mourning the loss of the Expos or as someone who was filled with rage over Loria. Nor should you see me as someone who feels that a reuse of the name would be an unpleasant reminder of some of the nonsense that went on in the later years of the franchise in Montreal.

The Expos are gone. They're the Nationals now. Fans should move on. If Montreal gets another MLB franchise, they should create a new identity for that team -- not try to recreate the Expos. I don't want any "Return of the Expos" crap like the "Return of the Jets" nonsense we had in Winnipeg. The Jets weren't returning, they were still in Arizona. The Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg and changed their names. If the media, fans, and others had referred to the return of the NHL to Winnipeg, it would've been more accurate and less objectionable.

As for the Nationals being the real Expos, I honestly cannot see them any other way. It's just not the way my brain works. They are the same franchise. Just like the Los Angeles Dodgers are the real Brooklyn Dodgers And the New Jersey Devils are the real Colorado Rockies are the real Kansas City Scouts.

How is a team leaving illogical and irrational? Most times there are perfectly rational and logical reasons for a team to be moved. Or at least, the reasons are logical and rational to the owner making the move. It's happened many many times in many many leagues. And it will happen many many times in the future. Follow the team in their new home, follow a different team, or spend the time you spent following the team on another interest altogether. Sitting around moping or getting angry about a team leaving is what seems illogical and irrational to me.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You don't need both. You can pick one or the other.

then the Bucks should drop the green, AF24, LOGO or otherwise, might as well can the Harley Davidson sponsor logo, too, if you want to go that far, how many ugly Bucks logos have been thrust on the fanbase in Milwaukee, btw, marketing or otherwise....

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

then the Bucks should drop the green, AF24, LOGO or otherwise, might as well can the Harley Davidson sponsor logo, too, if you want to go that far, how many ugly Bucks logos have been thrust on the fanbase in Milwaukee, btw, marketing or otherwise....

You're an odd fellow.