Confirmed with Link: NHL Protection Lists Released

[Metalfan]

Article from the Toronto Star:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...-josh-leivo-ahead-of-nhl-expansion-draft.html

The reason I'm posting this is because I have a question. Am I completely missing something, or is this one of the stupidest articles I have ever seen in the Toronto sports media, which is saying something? The author is suggesting that since Lupul is on the list of eligible players, there is a deal for Vegas to select him from the Leafs.

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere.

I'm so glad someone else has said this. When these media guys starting saying this stuff I was like "why would anyone in their right mind do this?".

1) lupul only has 1 year left and he's off the books after that.
2) leafs have lots of cap space
3) leafs organization has a ton of money.

Add these up and it makes no sense to trade something of value to get rid of him. Just keep him and LTIR him if needed. And 100% not giving up our first. We need that to add a quality prospect. In a cap world you have to keep having cheap ELC impact players coming into your roster to stay competitive.

Something else is that none of these guys reporting on this actually have a source for this. This is pure speculation. I've yet to hear an actual report from a credible source saying that this is happening. And if the past of this regime is any indicator, whatever the media thinks is going on will not happen. I'm convinced that they have no sources in this organization anymore.

I'd be ok with us moving the first for an established DMan that is available by expansion draft (dumba, demers, manson, etc) but that would pretty much be it. Don't overpay. Wait for the right situation and pounce. Just make the pick unless a sweet deal comes along.

Anyway enough rant. This just makes me crazy when people are talking complete speculation that doesn't make any logical sense for this club to do.

 

[SprDaVE]

What is the point? I do think Martin sucks, though.

The point is that they are better, much younger and more valuable players, therefore they should be kept/protected over a 9 point 10 minute per game 2.5M forward any day of the week.

Again, it's not a big deal but I do think it's a mistake regardless. I would not be surprised one bit if in a year or two we're desperate to get rid of him and we'll wonder why in the hell did we protect him. That's just me though.

 

[thewave]

Marner was hit plenty of times without Martin doing crap.

I don't think making stuff up is helping your case here.

I believe protection is a myth. Having a team that doesn't take bs is different and isn't. A Kadri or Komarov on every line is a nice thing. Brad Pitt on ice is still an actor acting as a hockey player.

 

[Menzinger]

Really starting to find the Martin talk bizarre.

He's a well above average defensive 4th liner who adds a physical dimension the Leafs really don't have otherwise and is a great leader in the room, especially to the kids. I could understand the debate if the Leafs were in a similar situation to some of the other teams but solid NHLer Martin is far more valuable than the unproven youngsters some are putting ahead of him. Go re-watch some games from the season. More often than not, he would help pin the other team in the opposing zone and gave up very few high danger chances against. Some are too in love with scoring wingers round here.

He was pretty lousy for 3/4 of the season until Boyle was acquired - then he started to play well. Made more frustrating that most of his icetime was against he oppositions 4th lines, for his salary he should be expected to dominate on that role

 

[Menzinger]

I believe protection is a myth. Having a team that doesn't take bs is different and isn't. A Kadri or Komarov on every line is a nice thing. Brad Pitt on ice is still an actor acting as a hockey player.

That's the thing too - plenty of cheap shots happened against the Leafs throughout the year, particularly during Flames and Nucks games

 

[Mess]

I believe protection is a myth. Having a team that doesn't take bs is different and isn't. A Kadri or Komarov on every line is a nice thing.

Who do you think lead all forwards in hits last year with 300?

Name the NHL forward that has been #1 or #2 overall in Hits in the last 4 years?

(https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-hits-statistics/2016/)

Perhaps Leafs having numerous smaller or softer skilled players, feel the need for some bigger physically punishing ones also to compensate and help balance the team.

Martin's role is much more than just protection.

 

[doorman]

The point is that they are better, much younger and more valuable players, therefore they should be kept/protected over a 9 point 10 minute per game 2.5M forward any day of the week.

Again, it's not a big deal but I do think it's a mistake regardless. I would not be surprised one bit if in a year or two we're desperate to get rid of him and we'll wonder why in the hell did we protect him. That's just me though.

While I understand what you and others are saying when it comes to Martin, the role he plays and his cap hit other things come into the equation for me. He has had a complete and totally positive affect on the young players, he is not a defensive liability to the team. While there are other players of his ilk and some may come cheaper, sometimes things just work. Martin with this team and players work, period, that's why you protect him.

 

[Unhealthy Scratch]

Marner was hit plenty of times without Martin doing crap.

I don't think making stuff up is helping your case here.

That's what I was thinking. There's this goofy mythology surrounding enforcers that just doesn't hold up under any scrutiny.

Sam Gagner scoring 50 points in a fourth line role is "well above average". Matt Martin is not. In fact, considering what we're paying him, and for how long, I'd say the return is well below average. Relative to other fourth line enforcer types, his team doesn't bleed scoring chances against when he's on the ice. Beyond that and being a "real good pro", there's just nothing there.

The Penguins just won two straight Cups without anything resembling an enforcer. Sure, it's a bit different when your team is 60% rookies, but.... $10M over 4 years for someone to retaliate when Marner gets decked? Which, in numerous instances this season, he didn't even do?

 

[Mr Hockey]

I believe protection is a myth. Having a team that doesn't take bs is different and isn't. A Kadri or Komarov on every line is a nice thing. Brad Pitt on ice is still an actor acting as a hockey player.

There are "players" that really know how to bully/take advantage of players mentally and physically on the ice. Martin is a deterrent to other teams/players who would physically/mentally be targeting the "the bid 3" all game long.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

He was pretty lousy for 3/4 of the season until Boyle was acquired - then he started to play well. Made more frustrating that most of his icetime was against he oppositions 4th lines, for his salary he should be expected to dominate on that role

Not to mention he played in every single game, managed 9 points (a career low) on the most offensively-gifted team in the league.

The kids don't need a 'babysitter'

 

[nuck]

My theory is they didn't expose Martin because
1) management wants to show rychel/leipsec they value both of them the same
2) show potential UFA's that the leafs don't give up or toss them under the bus after a year of signing a multi year contract
3) know Martin has gelled with multiple young leafs and don't want to ruin that relationship

I'm not sure showing Rychel and Leipsic they are valued the same matters much when one is almost certainly getting picked. Unless the Leafs actually can't differentiate themselves and they don't care. So then not exposing Martin gets them free good will as they know he wouldn't be taken anyway. For me that might be it.

Another alternative would be they actually like Leipsic and Rychel quite a bit and are going to send Bracco or another prospect to LV who will then take Marincin.

For the record I don't mind Martin in the lineup and I still think they are too soft.

 

[Stigma]

Another alternative would be they actually like Leipsic and Rychel quite a bit and are going to send Bracco or another prospect to LV who will then take Marincin.

For the record I don't mind Martin in the lineup and I still think they are too soft.

Take this for what it's worth:

I was just listening to the Fan 590 and Andrew Walker (I think) said that "someone in the Leafs organization" told him that they don't see Rychel as an NHLer and they only view Leipsic as marginally better than Rychel.

 

[apollo678]

I don't like Martin either, but would it be a big deal if they lost Rychel or Leipsic? I mean really.

The point is that they are better, much younger and more valuable players, therefore they should be kept/protected over a 9 point 10 minute per game 2.5M forward any day of the week.

Again, it's not a big deal but I do think it's a mistake regardless. I would not be surprised one bit if in a year or two we're desperate to get rid of him and we'll wonder why in the hell did we protect him. That's just me though.

A couple of things...
- It seems like the players thought he was a good and valued team mate. I get that sense especially from Marner. 8 rookies is a lot and last year went about the best it could have.
- I thought Martin played a lot better once Boyle was on the team. Perhaps Martin needs the right line mates in order to flourish
- Finally perhaps player diversity had something to do with it. It seems like we have an awful lot of the small, offensively talented type of winger on the team and in the system. Perhaps they were always going to expose Leipsic (since Bracco, Johnsson, et al are pushing from behind) and the choice was between Rychel and Martin.

 

[cannucky]

this is supossed to be about the Lists not what xbox atheletes think about Martin . The biggest laugh I got from the Lists was Florida protecting Reimer and exposing Lou , How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Mess]

this is supossed to be about the Lists not what xbox atheletes think about Martin . The biggest laugh I got from the Lists was Florida protecting Reimer and exposing Lou , How the mighty have fallen.

Luongo is already 38 years old and has 5 more years at a AAV of $5.33 mil per left on his deal taking him to age 43.

At his age (one of the oldest players in the NHL) his best days are behind him and this is strategic only, as losing that contract would be a blessing for the Panthers.

Its not going to happen however and so exposing him really has little to no impact.

 

[Menzinger]

Take this for what it's worth:

I was just listening to the Fan 590 and Andrew Walker (I think) said that "someone in the Leafs organization" told him that they don't see Rychel as an NHLer and they only view Leipsic as marginally better than Rychel.

Interesting.

I remember a Bob mcKenzie interview where he mentioned Leafs management see both as NHlers (this was around the spring), so I wonder if they e soured on the players.

Through that would be strange, especially since both guys just had pretty good seasons

 

[Stigma]

Interesting.

I remember a Bob mcKenzie interview where he mentioned Leafs management see both as NHlers (this was around the spring), so I wonder if they e soured on the players.

Through that would be strange, especially since both guys just had pretty good seasons

Here is the link, by the way. You'll see the comment in print and hear it in this clip (3:43):

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/walker/leafs-protect-matt-martin-two-prospects/

 

[Mess]

While I understand what you and others are saying when it comes to Martin, the role he plays and his cap hit other things come into the equation for me. He has had a complete and totally positive affect on the young players, he is not a defensive liability to the team. While there are other players of his ilk and some may come cheaper, sometimes things just work. Martin with this team and players work, period, that's why you protect him.

Good post and I hope its useful in helping others understand Martin's role better.

For me its even more obvious than that to summarize and square his main purpose.. The Leafs team is among the softest, smallest and less physical teams in the NHL, with very little ability to push back / spine against opposition with great size, strength and physicality who can manhandle them.

Very few current players play with any sense of physicality and bite to their games, and even the ones that have size are still realitively soft.

Its their greatest team weakest and Martin is the main and #1 player on the team that addresses that glaring weakness that can be exposed by the opposition.

If Leafs strategy is to employ some smaller, softer skilled players then you also need some other players to compensate and balance things out to counterbalance and provide push back ability or you'll get steamrolled on a nightly basis.

Management understands this and its why they acquired Martin via UFA and why he is an important component of the team.

 

[Mr Hockey]

What is the point? I do think Martin sucks, though.

You need to understand that he is a 4th line role player and there is a salary cap. I prefer our 4th line doing there thing 8 minutes a game and giving the other 3 lines as many minutes as possible.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think the reason they protected Martin is that he's good with the kids like Marner. It sounds like he spends time with the kids off the ice. So if there are friendships there, it seems silly to ruin things.

Also, I feel that management might be essentially indifferent between Rychel and Leipsic and so result is basically the same either way. So might as well protect Martin and keep everyone happy.

I just wanted Leivo protected and he was... so I'm happy.

 

[fahad203]

I think the reason they protected Martin is that he's good with the kids like Marner. It sounds like he spends time with the kids off the ice. So if there are friendships there, it seems silly to ruin things.

Also, I feel that management might be essentially indifferent between Rychel and Leipsic and so result is basically the same either way. So might as well protect Martin and keep everyone happy.

I just wanted Leivo protected and he was... so I'm happy.

Couple of years ago we were crying about Matt Frattin . How he was the next power forward. We are going to regret by trading him to the Kings

Then it was Joe Colborne. How can the Leafs part ways with a blue chip prospect who could have the next next Joe Thornton

Stuart Percy. Can't believe we gave him up for nothing.

Maybe our scouts actually have a sense of these types of players. Maybe they see that they don't' fit into our plans, their game is best suited for other teams

Two teams have given up both Rychel and Leipsec. Their AHL numbers look good, but there are a lot of players who are just good at AHL..........

 

[nuck]

Interesting.

I remember a Bob mcKenzie interview where he mentioned Leafs management see both as NHlers (this was around the spring), so I wonder if they e soured on the players.

Through that would be strange, especially since both guys just had pretty good seasons

Not sure the Leaf "source" was necessarily high enough to know exactly why the list played out as it did, but it makes some sense. However, if I didn't want those guys taken I might also say they don't look like NHL material. I have heard it said (not by Leafs sources) that Rychel's pedigree will make him the selection from TO. We'll know soon enough.

 

[paulhiggins]

The Penguins just won two straight Cups without anything resembling an enforcer...

At what cost?

 

[Jack Bauer]

3) leafs organization has a ton of money.


.

How is this at all relevant in a discussion about maximizing cap space?

 

[Jack Bauer]

At what cost?

What do you mean? The cost was worth it when it results in back to back championships.