Confirmed with Link: NHL Protection Lists Released

[Jack Bauer]

Article from the Toronto Star:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...-josh-leivo-ahead-of-nhl-expansion-draft.html

The reason I'm posting this is because I have a question. Am I completely missing something, or is this one of the stupidest articles I have ever seen in the Toronto sports media, which is saying something? The author is suggesting that since Lupul is on the list of eligible players, there is a deal for Vegas to select him from the Leafs.

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere.

How is it stupid if there's merit to it?

Is this scenario so crazy:

Vegas plans on dressing a very young team. They plan on moving a lot of players they draft for picks or will get picks for avoiding good players.

Lupul's deal is an inconvenience for us. Doesn't kill us but it would be easier to function without it.

Our options to Vegas are limited. And we have/had a lot of draft picks lately.

Maybe we use a more polished prospect like a Neilson or a Bracco, or a draft pick, to convince Vegas to take Lupul's 5.25mil cap hit which is only owed $3.75 and that's if he plays. If he's on IR he costs them nothing.

We have a looming issue in having a lot of prospects needing AHL ice time to develop. Maybe we flip some of those to Vegas to rid ourselves of the 2nd biggest financial headache we have considering we have little else to offer them anyway.

It can be a win-win for each. Unless you see Rychel or Leipsic as way more then most scouts do at this point.

 

[Faltorvo]

Article from the Toronto Star:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...-josh-leivo-ahead-of-nhl-expansion-draft.html

The reason I'm posting this is because I have a question. Am I completely missing something, or is this one of the stupidest articles I have ever seen in the Toronto sports media, which is saying something? The author is suggesting that since Lupul is on the list of eligible players, there is a deal for Vegas to select him from the Leafs.

Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere.

wait?

we are going to give up this years 1rst for a 1 year 5.25m cap relief?

but but but i thought we had tons of cap space this year?

well obviously someone is being a moron.

 

[Marmoset]

How is it stupid if there's merit to it?

Is this scenario so crazy:

Vegas plans on dressing a very young team. They plan on moving a lot of players they draft for picks or will get picks for avoiding good players.

Lupul's deal is an inconvenience for us. Doesn't kill us but it would be easier to function without it.

Our options to Vegas are limited. And we have/had a lot of draft picks lately.

Maybe we use a more polished prospect like a Neilson or a Bracco, or a draft pick, to convince Vegas to take Lupul's 5.25mil cap hit which is only owed $3.75 and that's if he plays. If he's on IR he costs them nothing.

We have a looming issue in having a lot of prospects needing AHL ice time to develop. Maybe we flip some of those to Vegas to rid ourselves of the 2nd biggest financial headache we have considering we have little else to offer them anyway.

It can be a win-win for each. Unless you see Rychel or Leipsic as way more then most scouts do at this point.

But why would we give up an actual asset to get cap space that we don't really need?

If Vegas wants to help us out for a mid-late pick and/or a low-level prospect, awesome. To actually give away a quality prospect like Nielsen or Bracco, or a higher pick, would be idiotic. Just let them take Rychel or Leipsic and move along.

The truth is that many other teams can and will make similar 'offers' to Vegas, with guys who can at least play a little and contribute, unlike Lupul (e.g. Chicago and Kruger). I don't see any incentive here for Vegas unless we pay a price that would be stupid for us to do.

Fans of every team on this site have been proposing trades like you just did. Vegas is only going to make a few of those deals - they won't be a dumping ground for everyone's bad contract.

This article really seems like someone stretching to make news out of something that is nothing. However, stranger things have happened of course.

Thanks all for the responses.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Wouldn't that be a nice little stunt.

 

[Jack Bauer]

But why would we give up an actual asset to get cap space that we don't really need?

If Vegas wants to help us out for a mid-late pick and/or a low-level prospect, awesome. To actually give away a quality prospect like Nielsen or Bracco, or a higher pick, would be idiotic. Just let them take Rychel or Leipsic and move along.

The truth is that many other teams can and will make similar 'offers' to Vegas, with guys who can at least play a little and contribute, unlike Lupul (e.g. Chicago and Kruger). I don't see any incentive here for Vegas unless we pay a price that would be stupid for us to do.

Fans of every team on this site have been proposing trades like you just did. Vegas is only going to make a few of those deals - they won't be a dumping ground for everyone's bad contract.

This article really seems like someone stretching to make news out of something that is nothing. However, stranger things have happened of course.

Thanks all for the responses.

I took the writers stretching as suggesting the 1st round pick as the cost.

We don't know what type of discussions Lou is having. If he wants to bring in a proven player and cap hit he might need that cap space. Making that move might create a situation where a Neilson, in theory, is never going to get a shot here and cashing out now is the chosen route.

Where we couldn't expose a player like that due to the rules suggesting a combination of a cap hit with a develop prospect isn't an outlandish suggestion for any of the 30 teams.

Yes all 30 are saying they should do the same thing. But some actually will. The price will vary based on many factors including what they can take from you anyway. Compared to most others we have little to offer and might be the best position team in that regard, so using that strength to improve our UFA/trade addition situation would be a smart idea.

We all agree all 30 teams can't pull it off.

 

[pgk]

Article from the Toronto Star

Found the problem

 

[Antropovsky]

Wow has mrazek fallen.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Is it weird that Vegas may have a better overall D group than us already?

 

[1specter]

Is it weird that Vegas may have a better overall D group than us already?

I don't know if I'd go that far. I mean, they will have a more well-rounded group, but Gardiner and Rielly are still better than any potential d-man they can pick (I don't count Manson because I'm pretty sure they made a deal with Anaheim to back off), and Zaitsev is better than most of them.

Vegas will have a better 4-6 though, I won't argue that. They'll basically have six top 4 D lol.

 

[X66]

It's a day later and I'm still thrilled this team wasn't dumb enough to expose Leivo.

 

[fahad203]

It's a day later and I'm still thrilled this team wasn't dumb enough to expose Leivo.

This management has done everything they said the would with plan and the future

I know there are few who will argue about Leipsec and Rychel over Martin but the fact is, they are just victims of numbers

Unless most people here want Matthews, Marner and Nylander being run over every game Martin needs to stay. Especially now that Polak's gone

We were extremely lucky last year we didn't have many injuries. We will get injured and players like Leivo will get his chances on top 6

 

[CertifiedLurker]

This management has done everything they said the would with plan and the future

I know there are few who will argue about Leipsec and Rychel over Martin but the fact is, they are just victims of numbers

Unless most people here want Matthews, Marner and Nylander being run over every game Martin needs to stay. Especially now that Polak's gone

We were extremely lucky last year we didn't have many injuries. We will get injured and players like Leivo will get his chances on top 6

LOL, Martin doesn't prevent anyone in the league from potentially taking a run. Enforcers don't prevent those types of injuries, they react to them, making them totally pointless. It's basically up to the league to enforce the rules because it ain't going to be players of Martin's ilk, and hasn't been for years.

 

[Diatomic]

My theory is they didn't expose Martin because
1) management wants to show rychel/leipsec they value both of them the same
2) show potential UFA's that the leafs don't give up or toss them under the bus after a year of signing a multi year contract
3) know Martin has gelled with multiple young leafs and don't want to ruin that relationship

 

[fahad203]

My theory is they didn't expose Martin because
1) management wants to show rychel/leipsec they value both of them the same
2) show potential UFA's that the leafs don't give up or toss them under the bus after a year of signing a multi year contract
3) know Martin has gelled with multiple young leafs and don't want to ruin that relationship

All of the above can be true. Babs is huge on character. He likes people who brings efforts and personality off ice. Martin is well liked, he brings leadership

 

[Once]

LOL, Martin doesn't prevent anyone in the league from potentially taking a run. Enforcers don't prevent those types of injuries, they react to them, making them totally pointless. It's basically up to the league to enforce the rules because it ain't going to be players of Martin's ilk, and hasn't been for years.

I understand your point.

But you subconsciously know once you run over Marner, watch your back next shift because Martin will be right there.

 

[GBLeaf]

There's been a few mentions of Vegas taking Fehr. Is this something that seems realistic?

I know there's a link there with McPhee and Fehr, but is this a deal that would need us to add an incentive?

Looking at a lot of the lists, it looks like lots of teams have already arranged deals with McPhee because there are a lot of good/interesting players available.

 

[Mess]

there are different scenario's that could play out but you were the one that brought up this scenario in the first place, how 10 other teams would give proposals to drive up the price on minny in order to protect Dumba, personally I think it would cost more then a 1st for Vegas to move Dumba but I was just using those as examples to try and make my point without arguing over a players true value.

he can ask minny for more then a 2nd but if they refuse again to Vegas whats more Valuable? 2nd + Scandella or Toronto's 1st round pick? it's without question the Minnesota's side to me and it's really not close.

let me try looking at it from a different angle, the only way Vegas decides not to take Dumba is if the compensation from Minnesota + whoever else they would pick, in this situation it's Scandella, is more valuable to Vegas then Dumba. in our scenario we've been discussing were assuming 2nd + Scandella > Dumba. so inorder for another team to be able to jump in and get Vegas to take Dumba anyways was if there providing more value to Vegas Correct? a 1st round pick isn't more valuable and therefore proves my point, that any other team would have to pay more and significantly more then Minnesota to entice Vegas to take and then trade Dumba.

If I'm Vegas GM McPhee I would put Dumba >> 2nd & Scandella.

That is one of the reason's why I was debating your point where Minny would have to pay up to keep Dumba in order to force them into taking Scandella. What other teams are offering for Dumba also would influence that choice, as what they can parlay him into if taken. Also the main force is on Minny to ante up to force Vegas not to take Dumba as the primary leverage here.

If Minny and Vegas can't agree to a deal then Vegas is taking Dumba (making Scandella inrellavant). Then they're actually keeping him (which wouldn't be a bad idea) or taking the best offer in trade. So looking at it more as independent transactions then combined where another team must beat only 1 of numerous potential outcomes.

So I don't see the value of Scandella playing too big a part in the overall equation, as that might be the least likely outcome as Minny would have to overpay to protect Dumba for that to become a factor. If I'm say Lou and bidding on Dumba, I wouldn't put any value on Scandella into my offer because in order for Vegas to trade me Dumba, they have already passed on Scandella themselves, and if they have Scandella then there is no Dumba to trade me. IMO

 

[Bluelines]

LOL, Martin doesn't prevent anyone in the league from potentially taking a run. Enforcers don't prevent those types of injuries, they react to them, making them totally pointless. It's basically up to the league to enforce the rules because it ain't going to be players of Martin's ilk, and hasn't been for years.

The concept of answering for your actions is not unusual, sure there are exceptions like Tkachuk in Calgary, Marchand in Boston, Gallagher in Montreal, these guys will continue to do pest/borderline dirty plays all game no matter what but for the rest of the players who don't want to get a fist to the face, they will behave.

When Lou and Babcock talk about Martin they rarely talk about the enforcer part of his game, they mostly talk about his influence in the locker room, how he is a mentor to the kids. IMO you are unfairly focusing on the smallest part of martins game

 

[thewave]

I understand your point.

But you subconsciously know once you run over Marner, watch your back next shift because Martin will be right there.

But then in reality Martin totally never did anything when Ovi was running our boys. Kadri did though, he didnt give a crap about the heirarchy.

 

[Mess]

My theory is they didn't expose Martin because
1) management wants to show rychel/leipsec they value both of them the same
2) show potential UFA's that the leafs don't give up or toss them under the bus after a year of signing a multi year contract
3) know Martin has gelled with multiple young leafs and don't want to ruin that relationship

Or the most obvious one is that Martin brings to the team exactly what management expected of him when they signed him, and his contribution is considered a valuable asset to team building.

Leafs were never going to protect a little waterbug like Leipsic over Martin, because you need players of all types and not going to go with a bunch on small skilled players when team building.

 

[SprDaVE]

I understand your point.

But you subconsciously know once you run over Marner, watch your back next shift because Martin will be right there.

Marner was hit plenty of times without Martin doing crap.

I don't think making stuff up is helping your case here.

 

[ACC1224]

Or the most obvious one is that Martin brings to the team exactly what management expected of him when they signed him, and his contribution is considered a valuable asset to team building.

Leafs were never going to protect a little waterbug like Leipsic over Martin, because you need players of all types and not going to go with a bunch on small skilled players when team building.

Exactly, surprised that there are fans that don't get this.

 

[Zybalto]

Really starting to find the Martin talk bizarre.

He's a well above average defensive 4th liner who adds a physical dimension the Leafs really don't have otherwise and is a great leader in the room, especially to the kids. I could understand the debate if the Leafs were in a similar situation to some of the other teams but solid NHLer Martin is far more valuable than the unproven youngsters some are putting ahead of him. Go re-watch some games from the season. More often than not, he would help pin the other team in the opposing zone and gave up very few high danger chances against. Some are too in love with scoring wingers round here.

 

[Suntouchable13]

That's not the point at all.

What is the point? I do think Martin sucks, though.

 

[Menzinger]

What is the point? I do think Martin sucks, though.

Yeah. I understand the logic of having him on the team (which is different from me AGREEING with that logic, mind you).

But the fact that his two best qualities are "good dressing room guy" and "toughness" aren't exactly hard to find. Those are availible every free agency. I mean it's how we got Martin in the first place