NHL Forwards Rankings #13

[wetcoast]

You agree on playoffs so that's good.

Crosby was injured 2/3 last regular seasons so by default that means OV had the better season. PPG doesn't mean anything when you're sitting at home.

OV was better than Malkin in 18/19, Malkin was better this year. 17/18 can be argued either way. But then when you add in playoffs OV moves ahead. I'm not saying Crosby and Malkin shouldn't be top 10 btw, I'm just saying OV is too low compared to them.

Crosby actually played in only 29 less games than Ovi and was 7 points behind him so no.

Also both Malkin and Crosby played better in this past season than Ovi did overall.

And if one wants to go with goals how is Ovi ahead of Pasta?

 

[Gurglesons]

You agree on playoffs so that's good.

Crosby was injured 2/3 last regular seasons so by default that means OV had the better season. PPG doesn't mean anything when you're sitting at home.

OV was better than Malkin in 18/19, Malkin was better this year. 17/18 can be argued either way. But then when you add in playoffs OV moves ahead. I'm not saying Crosby and Malkin shouldn't be top 10 btw, I'm just saying OV is too low compared to them.

Over the last two years they’ve played 20ish less games then Ovie and put up 10 and 9 less points. I’m not sure your argument is really apt.

The fact Malkin was awful for a season and Sid was recovering from hernia surgery and they still produced that close to Ovie seals it for me tbh.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

The Legend. The Great 8.

 

[BB06]

Looks like too many are factoring in past seasons as well here.

Ovi isn't even close to being a top 20 forward going into next season but yet he still leads this poll....complete joke really.

This is a gross over-exaggeration.

 

[amnesiac]

Present? Ok, so why is Crosby 5th? He was injured in the regular season and missed the playoffs. But of course you had no problem voting for him.

I didnt vote Crosby 5th. Quit assuming Im some Crosby lover.... I love both Crosby and Ovie. You guys should try it (liking both).

Is Crosby better OVERALL than Ovie right now? yeah, probably is. Offensively and defensively.

Is Ovie still a great goalscorer? Absolutely. Top 3 on the planet.... but a far cry from being the PPG+ producer he once was.

 

[Krewe]

Past seasons are the only reason why Crosby and Malkin got voted where they did.

Agreed. Doesn't mean Ovi is better than guys like pasta or stone though. Crosby still has his grace period though so it's gonna be awhile till he isn't put top 5 by the majority of people

 

[amnesiac]

Will do, maybe Larkin too?

up to you, I would still have a few ahead (Svechnikov, Toews, Seguin, Couture, Pacioretty), but hes in that mix.

 

[wetcoast]

This is a gross over-exaggeration.

No it isn't really when you look at it seriously.

Ovi's production on the PP is horrible given his TOI and his open ice battles for the puck and ESGF/ESGA (and resulting plus/minus) given his team context is also horrible.

Last season is a sign of his quick demise, TOI and PP time isn't going to change that.

 

[BB06]

No it isn't really when you look at it seriously.

Ovi's production on the PP is horrible given his TOI and his open ice battles for the puck and ESGF/ESGA (and resulting plus/minus) given his team context is also horrible.

Last season is a sign of his quick demise, TOI and PP time isn't going to change that.

He's giving you 50-55 goals and 80 points while being PPG+ in the last 3 playoffs. There isn't 20+ better regardless of what you say.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Voted Pasta because I didn’t see that Ovechkin was still there. I would probably go Ovy-Pasta-Bergeron for the next three. That said, there are other players I would rather have on my team for next season other than Ovy and Bergeron because I think they might decline but because they are coming off great years I gotta go with them for this list.

 

[wetcoast]

He's giving you 50-55 goals and 80 points while being PPG+ in the last 3 playoffs. There isn't 20+ better regardless of what you say.

How about some context for last season, which is more indicative going into next season?

He was a black hole aside from his goals...period. Somethign you are conveniently skipping over.

He also wasn't that great in last years playoffs. You are doing the 3 year average thing there.

I know the retort will be the same for Crosby and Malkin but it was the NYI and Crosby was still at least driving play.

 

[BB06]

How about some context for last season, which is more indicative going into next season?

He was a black hole aside from his goals...period. Somethign you are conveniently skipping over.

He also wasn't that great in last years playoffs. You are doing the 3 year average thing there.

I know the retort will be the same for Crosby and Malkin but it was the NYI and Crosby was still at least driving play.

He had 50% of his teams goals in the playoffs and was PPG. You telling me 4G 1A in 5 games is bad? I guess Crosby has been down right horrific in the last 2 years especially considering one of the teams he faced was the 23 ranked team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

With Crosby at 5 and Malkin at 7, OV is already way too low considering he's been better than both of them the last 3 playoffs and 2/3 last regular seasons.

He's been healthier. I wouldn't say he's been better. Crosby's out-produced him 2 out of the 3 seasons, and the only season he didn't was due to injury, where his points per game was still better. The only thing Ovechkin has on Crosby these past 3 seasons is being the better goal scorer. Everything else favors Crosby.

And that doesn't take into account defensive responsibilities of the position. It's a key reason why guys like Kane, Kucherov, etc. aren't higher than they are compared to centers who produce at their level or even slightly below.

 

[Krewe]

He's been healthier. I wouldn't say he's been better. Crosby's out-produced him 2 out of the 3 seasons, and the only season he didn't was due to injury, where his points per game was still better. The only thing Ovechkin has on Crosby these past 3 seasons is being the better goal scorer. Everything else favors Crosby.

And that doesn't take into account defensive responsibilities of the position. It's a key reason why guys like Kane, Kucherov, etc. aren't higher than they are compared to centers who produce at their level or even slightly below.

Hey now, I agree centers have more responsibility, but there is a difference between guys like Kane and Ovi, that don't play defense, guys like Kucherov, who are average at defense, and a guy like Stone, who is amazing at defense (and more effective in that zone than all but a few centers

 

[wetcoast]

He had 50% of his teams goals in the playoffs and was PPG. You telling me 4G 1A in 5 games is bad? I guess Crosby has been down right horrific in the last 2 years especially considering one of the teams he faced was the 23 ranked team.

The record shows a line of 8-4-1-5.

You are also confusing counting stats (which can be extremely variable in small game samples) with control of play, which Crosby did very well in the series against the NYI in 18-19 and even better this year against Price even if the counting stats weren't there.

I'm looking forward to next season when it might even be clear to you how father time has caught up with Ovi.

 

[BB06]

The record shows a line of 8-4-1-5.

You are also confusing counting stats (which can be extremely variable in small game samples) with control of play, which Crosby did very well in the series against the NYI in 18-19 and even better this year against Price even if the counting stats weren't there.

I'm looking forward to next season when it might even be clear to you how father time has caught up with Ovi.

Round robin games clearly shouldn’t be used to evaluate playoffs. Glorified exhibition games.

 

[wetcoast]

Round robin games clearly shouldn’t be used to evaluate playoffs. Glorified exhibition games.

They were playoff games, it's in the record as such and he played over 20 MPG in each one.

 

[BB06]

They were playoff games, it's in the record as such and he played over 20 MPG in each one.

Regular season rules and no bearings other than standing are not playoffs. Those games meant nothing and it showed in how teams played them.

 

[wetcoast]

Regular season rules and no bearings other than standing are not playoffs. Those games meant nothing and it showed in how teams played them.

Look I'm not going to argue the 3 games even if the official record will forever record them as playoff games.

The bigger problem was with his regular season anyways and that's why he isn't a top 20 forward going into the NHL for next season for me (And I'm not even considering cap issues, age or anything excpet how any forward will be just for next year).

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Sadly this series of polls seems very centered on points.

Took Aho, considered ROR, Bergeron, Kopitar

Kopitars become so criminally underrated it's insane. Imagine if he had the teammates these other players have.

 

[AvroArrow]

Pastrnak should be top 10.

 

[BlueBaron]

Voted Pasta and hated it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Look I'm not going to argue the 3 games even if the official record will forever record them as playoff games.

The bigger problem was with his regular season anyways and that's why he isn't a top 20 forward going into the NHL for next season for me (And I'm not even considering cap issues, age or anything excpet how any forward will be just for next year).

Ovechkin was better than Crosby in 2 out of the past 3 regular seasons and in 3 of the past 3 playoffs. Crosby wasn't even a top 20 player in two of those regular seasons.

In that span, Ovechkin has 68 more goals than Crosby, and also more points. Ovechkin also leads the NHL in regular season and playoff goals.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Crosby actually played in only 29 less games than Ovi and was 7 points behind him so no.

Also both Malkin and Crosby played better in this past season than Ovi did overall.

And if one wants to go with goals how is Ovi ahead of Pasta?

Why would you pick Pasta over Ovi if you want goals?

 

[Krewe]

Why would you pick Pasta over Ovi if you want goals?

Basically same goal production. MUCH better at everything else