Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | A True Playoff Team

[JohnHodgson]

Yeah it’s not really that crazy of an idea. He missed 42 games this year and with him gone, we were still pretty good.
It really depends what we get for him and who we replace him with and at what price.

If we are trading Soucy to free up cap to get Tanev then that’s not a bad thing.

Hughes- Hronek
Zadorov - Tanev
????? - ?????

It’s not a crazy idea at all. Did Carson Soucy change his name to Carson McDavid??

We can easily find someone who’s more durable and provides 80% of what he brings for half the price.

Zadorov is + version of Soucy with a mean streak, makes plenty of sense to move Soucy to keep Zadorov.

First and foremost, how is it gaslighting to disagree with someone? By that logic, everyone telling me Duclair wasn't worth picking up at the deadline was gaslighting. Or the actual reason. They just didn't agree.

Second. You do realize the probability of a third round pick becoming an impact player is estimated to be roughly 12%, yes? That doesn't necessarily mean they will be good just something. How is that "great value" for a contending team looking to make the playoffs?

3rd-7th picks are little more than darts at a board. You might get lucky, you probably won't.

You're basically trying to find a free agent close enough to Soucy... who will also take half the dollar amount. I mean, sure... if we can find that player. Odds are another team is offering them a lot more than 1.5M.

You trade Soucy to make space for better players. If you dont understand that logic I cant help you with that.

It’s not about the return. It’s good work to sign a UFA, get a season out of them and trade them for assets provided there’s a viable replacement.

 

[Petey O]

The reality is, we're going to lose at least one well liked player this offseason, and it sucks, but I don't see how it's avoided.

 

[Vector]

Soucy is our 3 LD behind Zadorov and Hughes. He’s hardly someone that we’d lose sleep over if we traded.

His contract is fair market value… where are you getting “excellent value”? He’s a decent bottom pairing defenseman and being laid accordingly.

Soucy played 2nd pairing minutes over frequently Zadorov during the regular season. Yesterday he had more shifts and played only 10 seconds less than Zadorov. His cap hit for what he brings is excellent.

 

[Nopefully]

Soucy played 2nd pairing minutes over frequently Zadorov during the regular season. Yesterday he had more shifts and played only 10 seconds less than Zadorov. His cap hit for what he brings is excellent.

Depth wins championships.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

You trade Soucy to make space for better players. If you dont understand that logic I cant help you with that.

It’s not about the return. It’s good work to sign a UFA, get a season out of them and trade them for assets provided there’s a viable replacement.

I get the logic. What I, and others, are saying is it's not nearly as simple finding a replacement for Soucy at half the cost as you're making it out to be. If it were, well, Toronto probably would have done it in the last decade. Even if by accident.

Stop throwing out nonsense like "Is he Carson McDavid??!?!" because people aren't agreeing with you.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Soucy played 2nd pairing minutes over frequently Zadorov during the regular season. Yesterday he had more shifts and played only 10 seconds less than Zadorov. His cap hit for what he brings is excellent.

Zadorov has been consistently playing 20 mins a night in the playoffs and has been a massive difference maker.

Soucy’s been playing around 17 mins a night and has been steady.

Excellent value is not the appropriate terminology here. 3M for a good bottom pairing Dman is market value. You’re hardly getting surplus value.

Edit: Devon Toews at 4.1M is excellent value. K’andre Miller at 3.8M is excellent value. Carson Soucy is not. Lol

I get the logic. What I, and others, are saying is it's not nearly as simple finding a replacement for Soucy at half the cost as you're making it out to be. If it were, well, Toronto probably would have done it in the last decade. Even if by accident.

Stop throwing out nonsense like "Is he Carson McDavid??!?!" because people aren't agreeing with you.

Huh?

Trading Soucy was somebody else’s idea, not even mind bud.

Dude got piled on without anyone even doing proper analysis. It’s not an outrageous idea and actually very possible.

This management moves fast on players if they think it’s the right move.

 

[Vector]

Zadorov has been consistently playing 20 mins a night in the playoffs and has been a massive difference maker.

Soucy’s been playing around 17 mins a night and has been steady.

Excellent value is not the appropriate terminology here. 3M for a good bottom pairing Dman is market value. You’re hardly getting surplus value.

Zadorov played 18 minutes yesterday and Soucy played 17:50.

You’re saving maybe 1.5m at big downgrade of his minutes given what he’s provided.

Again, he’s excellent value and is a huge part of yesterday’s win and the Canucks defensive turnaround.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Soucy played 2nd pairing minutes over frequently Zadorov during the regular season. Yesterday he had more shifts and played only 10 seconds less than Zadorov. His cap hit for what he brings is excellent.

The decision for management is whether they think Zadorov is their 2nd pairing LD, because he is going to be paid like one. And if he is paid like a 2LD, can you afford to have a 3LD paid $3.5m, even one as good as Soucy is.

In a perfect world you have Hughes-Z-Soucy down the left side and ice a spectacular LD that brings everything. In reality this is a luxury we cannot afford, unless you want to run it back with Blueger as 3C, Suter as 1LW, and no wingers upgrade for Petey.

Keeping Z and trading Soucy isn't a bad idea, it just depends on how you want to build your team.

 

[WTG]

I get the logic. What I, and others, are saying is it's not nearly as simple finding a replacement for Soucy at half the cost as you're making it out to be. If it were, well, Toronto probably would have done it in the last decade. Even if by accident.

Stop throwing out nonsense like "Is he Carson McDavid??!?!" because people aren't agreeing with you.

I think Soucy is fantastic, but if you are going to be aggressive in keeping the UFAs you have to put him on the table. Especially considering you are moving salary out. He has value because as you said, he's a good player on a good contract. That means you can take those assets and move a guy like Mikheyev with those assets.

As mentioned in playoff TOI, Zadorov has clearly surpassed Soucy in the depth chart in the playoffs. I think if they were to keep both Zadorov and Soucy, Zadorov will probably be on that second pairing next season.

From the interviews that Tochett has given about Alvin is that Alvin really listens to Tochett on player personnel. They got rid of Kuzemenko and brought in guys that Tochett likes. Given the amount of time he has given Zadorov, if push comes to shove on that left side, he will favor Zadorov. So I think we should be open to a Soucy move.

Spending 3+ mil on a third pairing is a luxury.

 

[Clearthepuck]

I'm sure Carolina's soon to be early playoff exit won't have their management team pondering the whole "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" label.

Money money Jarvis .. hope

 

[JohnHodgson]

Zadorov played 18 minutes yesterday and Soucy played 17:50.

You’re saving maybe 1.5m at big downgrade of his minutes given what he’s provided.

Again, he’s excellent value and is a huge part of yesterday’s win and the Canucks defensive turnaround.

Are we watching the same playoffs?

Zadorov has 3 goals, 5 points in 7 games while being a physical force averaging 20 mins a night.

Soucy has 3 assists in 7 games while being a steady presence averaging about 17:30 a night.

Zadorov has historically played 18-19 minutes a night in a 4D role.

Trading Soucy to keep Zadorov is very viable and might even be likely at this point.

 

[WTG]

The decision for management is whether they think Zadorov is their 2nd pairing LD, because he is going to be paid like one. And if he is paid like a 2LD, can you afford to have a 3LD paid $3.5m, even one as good as Soucy is.

In a perfect world you have Hughes-Z-Soucy down the left side and ice a spectacular LD that brings everything. In reality this is a luxury we cannot afford, unless you want to run it back with Blueger as 3C, Suter as 1LW, and no wingers upgrade for Petey.

Keeping Z and trading Soucy isn't a bad idea, it just depends on how you want to build your team.

He's had an insane playoffs. I'd argue he's played at a top pairing level so far in the playoffs, at least close to it, IMO.

 

[JohnHodgson]

The decision for management is whether they think Zadorov is their 2nd pairing LD, because he is going to be paid like one. And if he is paid like a 2LD, can you afford to have a 3LD paid $3.5m, even one as good as Soucy is.

In a perfect world you have Hughes-Z-Soucy down the left side and ice a spectacular LD that brings everything. In reality this is a luxury we cannot afford, unless you want to run it back with Blueger as 3C, Suter as 1LW, and no wingers upgrade for Petey.

Keeping Z and trading Soucy isn't a bad idea, it just depends on how you want to build your team.

Bingo.

If this team sees Zadorov as a core piece and can be a # 2LD for us moving forward, then it makes sense to trade Soucy to keep Zadorov.

When you have a franchise LD eating 25 minutes a game, it's hard to justify paying Zadorov 5M at 2LD and Soucy 3M at 3LD. It definitely makes sense to disperse that money into other roles if Soucy is only playing 17 minutes a night.

 

[MS]

Zadorov has had a great playoffs so far but let’s not pretend he was anywhere near this level in the regular season or that he’s likely to be at this level next season.

And he’s someone I want re-signed.

 

[JohnHodgson]

View attachment 868244

He's had an insane playoffs. I'd argue he's played at a top pairing level so far in the playoffs, at least close to it, IMO.

Trying to compare Soucy and Zadorov in the playoffs is crazy.

Anyone watching the games can clearly see that Zadorov is a DIFFERENCE maker out there playing his ass off and scoring big goals. Soucy's been our 6th best defensemen in the playoffs.

 

[WTG]

Zadorov has had a great playoffs so far but let’s not pretend he was anywhere near this level in the regular season or that he’s likely to be at this level next season.

And he’s someone I want re-signed.

I see it a bit differently; Zadorov has proven himself that he can rise to the occasion and be a big impact player. He might not have played like this in the regular season, but he has played like this when the games really do count.

If it requires Soucy to be moved, then you would move him.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Zadorov has had a great playoffs so far but let’s not pretend he was anywhere near this level in the regular season or that he’s likely to be at this level next season.

And he’s someone I want re-signed.

He was great last year in Calgary and scored 14 goals playing around 19 minutes a game in a 4D role. Zadorov looks like the type of player that isn't afraid of the moment and rises to the occasion. He feeds off the physicality and intensity and every playoff team would love someone like Zadorov in the fight with them. Seven playoff games where he's been playing at a top pairing level and scoring massive goals. He has 3 more goals than our supposed franchise C... and he's a defensemen.

I think Soucy is fantastic, but if you are going to be aggressive in keeping the UFAs you have to put him on the table. Especially considering you are moving salary out. He has value because as you said, he's a good player on a good contract. That means you can take those assets and move a guy like Mikheyev with those assets.

As mentioned in playoff TOI, Zadorov has clearly surpassed Soucy in the depth chart in the playoffs. I think if they were to keep both Zadorov and Soucy, Zadorov will probably be on that second pairing next season.

From the interviews that Tochett has given about Alvin is that Alvin really listens to Tochett on player personnel. They got rid of Kuzemenko and brought in guys that Tochett likes. Given the amount of time he has given Zadorov, if push comes to shove on that left side, he will favor Zadorov. So I think we should be open to a Soucy move.

Spending 3+ mil on a third pairing is a luxury.

Bingo x2.

Moving Soucy out to get a pick and then moving that pick and something else to get rid of Mikhyev would help us free almost 8M in cap space. We could distribute that to 3/4 depth players or one really good player like a Guentzel or Lindholm.

I trust the scouting staff to find someone that can play solid third pairing minutes at half the cost. This is the same pro scouting staff that went out and got Hronek, Zadorov, Cole, Soucy, Friedman and Bear. Almost all were good acquisitions.

The thing is when people are gate keeping QUALITY and LEGITIMATE ideas on a MESSAGE BOARD is so freaking stupid and contributes to group think and stops good conversation like the one we're having now. Acting like Soucy is some god and there's 0 % chance he's getting traded is just so non-productive to the conversation

 

[WTG]

The thing is when people are gate keeping QUALITY and LEGITIMATE ideas on a MESSAGE BOARD is so freaking stupid and contributes to group think and stops good conversation like the one we're having now. Acting like Soucy is some god and there's 0 % chance he's getting traded is just so non-productive to the conversation

I understand what you mean, but this forum is basically the last place where you can have combative conversations with people. Twitter is a disaster, reddit has the upvote/downvote system, and CDC is out. Having combative conversations also helps people flesh out their ideas better. It's overall a good thing to have people with different opinions IMO.

I agree with you on the Soucy situation, though. I think the fanbase should be open for a trade there. With the cap expected to explode in the next few years, I think the Canucks just need to weather out one year. Then, the cap will give them a bunch of freedom. COVID screwed a lot of teams with the flat cap.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I understand what you mean, but this forum is basically the last place where you can have combative conversations with people. Twitter is a disaster, reddit has the upvote/downvote system, and CDC is out. Having combative conversations also helps people flesh out their ideas better. It's overall a good thing to have people with different opinions IMO.

Nothing wrong with people having different opinions.

I just didn't like the way people shut you down without even providing any valuable insights/analysis. Someone really said there was a 0% chance they would trade Carson Soucy. Imagine if JR or Alvin read that comment, they would burst out laughing.

This is the same management team that almost traded a first line centre after signing him to a $56M extension.

Imagine a GM calls JR and says hey we like Carson Soucy you guys would move him?

And JR picks up and says nah there's a 0% chance we're trading him.

 

[MS]

He was great last year in Calgary and scored 14 goals playing around 19 minutes a game in a 4D role. Zadorov looks like the type of player that isn't afraid of the moment and rises to the occasion. He feeds off the physicality and intensity and every playoff team would love someone like Zadorov in the fight with them. Seven playoff games where he's been playing at a top pairing level and scoring massive goals. He has 3 more goals than our supposed franchise C... and he's a defensemen.


Bingo x2.

Moving Soucy out to get a pick and then moving that pick and something else to get rid of Mikhyev would help us free almost 8M in cap space. We could distribute that to 3/4 depth players or one really good player like a Guentzel or Lindholm.

I trust the scouting staff to find someone that can play solid third pairing minutes at half the cost. This is the same pro scouting staff that went out and got Hronek, Zadorov, Cole, Soucy, Friedman and Bear. Almost all were good acquisitions.

The thing is when people are gate keeping QUALITY and LEGITIMATE ideas on a MESSAGE BOARD is so freaking stupid and contributes to group think and stops good conversation like the one we're having now. Acting like Soucy is some god and there's 0 % chance he's getting traded is just so non-productive to the conversation

Nobody is acting like Soucy is a god. There’s just basically no chance he gets traded as a quality-value contract at a key position.

By the time you sign a lesser-but-competent player to replace him, you’re saving peanuts to make your team worse. Ethan Bear got $2 million on a multi-year deal ffs. The 35 year old corpse of Luke Schenn got $2.7 for 3 years.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Nobody is acting like Soucy is a god. There’s just basically no chance he gets traded as a quality-value contract at a key position.

By the time you sign a lesser-but-competent player to replace him, you’re saving peanuts to make your team worse. Ethan Bear got $2 million on a multi-year deal ffs. The 35 year old corpse of Luke Schenn got $2.7 for 3 years.

Or someone like Hakanpaa that makes 1.5M playing almost 19 minutes a night on the Dallas Stars.

See what I did there? Just pick and choose examples that fit the narrative

 

[WTG]

Nobody is acting like Soucy is a god. There’s just basically no chance he gets traded as a quality-value contract at a key position.

By the time you sign a lesser-but-competent player to replace him, you’re saving peanuts to make your team worse. Ethan Bear got $2 million on a multi-year deal ffs. The 35 year old corpse of Luke Schenn got $2.7 for 3 years.

You have to trust Alvin's pro-scouting efforts so far. Just because other GMs are making bad pro-scouting decisions doesn't necessarily mean this management group will. They've done a great job so far.

Off-season will hurt. I think the team will get a lot younger, and they will probably take an initial step back with young players coming in. You just have to have trust that the young players fill their roles and that the new FA's can replace at least others. But the beauty of having young players is that they can surprise, for good or for worse.

Either way, this offseason is make-or-break for the next 2 seasons IMO. If they nail this, the Canucks open a BIG window.

 

[WTG]

Nothing wrong with people having different opinions.

I just didn't like the way people shut you down without even providing any valuable insights/analysis. Someone really said there was a 0% chance they would trade Carson Soucy. Imagine if JR or Alvin read that comment, they would burst out laughing.

This is the same management team that almost traded a first line centre after signing him to a $56M extension.

Imagine a GM calls JR and says hey we like Carson Soucy you guys would move him?

And JR picks up and says nah there's a 0% chance we're trading him.

One thing I really like about this management group is that they are not afraid to go bold. Much like Vegas, they are aggressive and try to build the best team they possibly can.

Hard to argue against the results so far. This is the furthest the Canucks have gone in the playoffs since 2011 (bubble is bubble).

I was doubtful of the Lindholm trade and I have to eat face there. They've done a remarkable job at bringing in pieces that preform when it matters.

 

[MS]

Or someone like Hakanpaa that makes 1.5M playing almost 19 minutes a night on the Dallas Stars.

See what I did there? Just pick and choose examples that fit the narrative

Hakanpaa signed 3 years ago under the flat cap for $1.5. His 2021 self would be getting well over $2 million now and he’ll probably be getting paid as much or more than Soucy this summer.

There are 32 teams looking for quality cheap D on July 1. Crossing your fingers and hoping you’ll get one of the 1 or 2 guys who proves to be a cheap bargain is a fool’s errand.

This is just textbook EA Sports management. Actual NHL GMs on contending teams don’t trade away quality 6’5 defenders on good contracts so they can go dumpster diving. It isn’t how it works, and with good reason.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You have to trust Alvin's pro-scouting efforts so far. Just because other GMs are making bad pro-scouting decisions doesn't necessarily mean this management group will. They've done a great job so far.

Off-season will hurt. I think the team will get a lot younger, and they will probably take an initial step back with young players coming in. You just have to have trust that the young players fill their roles and that the new FA's can replace at least others. But the beauty of having young players is that they can surprise, for good or for worse.

Either way, this offseason is make-or-break for the next 2 seasons IMO. If they nail this, the Canucks open a BIG window.

Stanley Cup calibre teams have to be able to find cap efficiencies to win. Carson Soucy playing 17 minutes a night as a 3 LD making 3M is not a cap efficiency to say.

If you look at some of the top teams, they have cheap bottom pairing guys that were very effective for them this year (Hakanpaa, Gustafson, Mike Reilly, Shattenkirk, OEL)

Hakanpaa signed 3 years ago under the flat cap for $1.5. His 2021 self would be getting well over $2 million now and he’ll probably be getting paid as much or more than Soucy this summer.

There are 32 teams looking for quality cheap D on July 1. Crossing your fingers and hoping you’ll get one of the 1 or 2 guys who proves to be a cheap bargain is a fool’s errand.

This is just textbook EA Sports management. Actual NHL GMs on contending teams don’t trade away quality 6’5 defenders on good contracts so they can go dumpster diving. It isn’t how it works, and with good reason.

You're not trading Soucy to dumpster dive.

You're trading Soucy to keep someone like Zadorov or Joshua who are more high-impact players.

You're losing the plot here.