News Article: NHL.com: Inside look at Detroit Red Wings

[lomekian]

I would agree with the post that says that the wings are 1 player away, but only if that player is a truly generational talent. A Crosby, Ovechkin, Lidstrom, Orr, Howe, Yzerman, Gretzky, Lemieux or similar might be enough on their own.

Beyond that...no chance. I'm in favour of keeping the streak going, but we are a bubble team, and for good reason. An elite player might make us a safe playoff team, but to be a contender, we need that and a couple of other first line level players or a genius!

Or a draft like '89!

 

[Vatican Roulette]

None of us are part of the solution or problem. We're Wings fans.

20 straight years of being a top team in the league, followed by 3 mediocre years shows the true colors of spoiled fans.

No, it shows 20 years of fans that know only winning, and when that goes to the way side, they see it and want to be better.

Do you want to be 1st round knock-outs every year? Or do you want something more?

 

[Ezekial]

No, it shows 20 years of fans that know only winning, and when that goes to the way side, they see it and want to be better.

Do you want to be 1st round knock-outs every year? Or do you want something more?

Obviously I want something more, but I'm not gonna sit here and write a silly narrative of overstated "woe is me" crybaby nonsense and not support/watch my team. This team isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I've read the whole thread up to this point.

IMO, the Wings need better asset management.

At the deadline, the Wings have had most of their top prospects up on the team...if they think they can contribute, then trade the UFA vets.

Quincey should have been gone.
Helm should have been gone.

Assets, young assets to the team. Draft picks.

Young players would have filled those gaps.

If the Wings don't make the playoffs because they traded Quincey and Helm, then there's a problem.

Point is, rotate in young players and give them a spot to grab on the team.

---

Now some want that player to steal a spot. Give them a chance to steal it. Stop signing UFA vets that take that players spot.

UFA vets might have more experience, but they cost more. A lot more.

If those said young players don't cut it, then deal them off too, for more assets. Whether it be in a package, or a team that likes them for some reason.

Also, stop trading top 3 round picks for rentals.

---

If the Wings are to improve through the draft(playoff bubble team), then more picks(chances) at hitting a homerun are needed.

Deal vets at the deadline, get picks or prospects, and let those young players show their worth.

 

[jkutswings]

None of us are part of the solution or problem. We're Wings fans.

20 straight years of being a top team in the league, followed by 3 mediocre years shows the true colors of spoiled fans.

How exactly is being frustrated that management has exchanged championship contention, not for rebuilding to give it a shot again, but for mailing it in for 2 token first round home games and an early exit, being spoiled?

I fully expect a true rebuild to take 5-10 years, and that timeframe to have lots of ugly moments. And yet I'd be perfectly ok with that process, if I felt it was a process with the goal of winning a Stanley Cup, and progress to rebuild the team into a real contender. But if I think the front office is making dumb moves that actually take the team further away from championship contention, saying so isn't being spoiled. Unless you think you can't be a "real fan" unless you give the thumbs up to ANYTHING they do, in which case we'll definitely have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

How exactly is being frustrated that management has exchanged championship contention, not for rebuilding to give it a shot again, but for mailing it in for 2 token first round home games and an early exit, being spoiled?

I fully expect a true rebuild to take 5-10 years, and that timeframe to have lots of ugly moments. And yet I'd be perfectly ok with that process, if I felt it was a process with the goal of winning a Stanley Cup, and progress to rebuild the team into a real contender. But if I think the front office is making dumb moves that actually take the team further away from championship contention, saying so isn't being spoiled. Unless you think you can't be a "real fan" unless you give the thumbs up to ANYTHING they do, in which case we'll definitely have to agree to disagree.

No, you can't be a "real fan" when you say something like haulinbass said that is blatantly false and inflammatory and finish it up by saying "I'm gonna watch teams that actually want to win". As much as I generally have disagreed with a lot of what you've said... I've never doubted your fandom, jkuts. I just don't think that they're as bad or that Holland's moves are as bad as you do.

Further, it's just a personal fandom thing for me. I've been a Lions, Tigers, and Wolverines fan for my whole life and they either were straight up jokes or they blew up a slightly above average roster because they were sick of "first round exits or 8-4, 9-3 seasons" only to become terrible, I can't support the Red Wings doing the same. If that means that it's first round losses until they get lucky in the draft with their 15-18th OA, then it means first round losses.

E: I also would rather watch the "token playoff series" and the regular season that was good enough to get them there rather than just stop watching in November because they're fifteen points out by then.

 

[Bench]

No, you can't be a "real fan" when you say something like haulinbass said that is blatantly false and inflammatory and finish it up by saying "I'm gonna watch teams that actually want to win". As much as I generally have disagreed with a lot of what you've said... I've never doubted your fandom, jkuts. I just don't think that they're as bad or that Holland's moves are as bad as you do.

Further, it's just a personal fandom thing for me.

Important to remember this is an entertainment product that is not that different from watching House MD or Game of Thrones. If it no longer entertains you, for whatever reason, it's OK to turn off the TV. You don't get extra points for not enjoying something with your free time.

I stopped watching House sometime in the later seasons. I have no idea how it all concluded. I'm sure it was fine. Still, I lost interest in the formula of the show that felt routine. Others followed it to conclusion, quite satisfied with House's progression as a character and the "not lupus" disease of the week. Depends what you're looking for in your free time fun.

Sometimes what happens off the ice is part of the entertainment value for the more engaged fans. While the roster may not be making the playoffs, having exciting young talents and a team with a vision for improvement is part of that enjoyment. Others prefer more consistent results rather than hope.

Part of my fun is following the highs and lows. The sweet isn't as sweet without the bitter. But right now it's pretty stale. I'm not particularly sold on the direction of the franchise, Datsyuk's departure really hurts the entertainment value, and it's hard to feel hopeful when your team is the underdog in every playoff series. If somebody tunes out, I won't blame them. If the team turns around, the saga won't feel as sweet at the end. But meh, who cares what people watch. There's no fandom secret handshake. We're all just sort of watching a game between actual life obligations.

Philosophical rant over.

 

[Red Stanley]

Well it's not really a joke if it's all true.

Sorry, didn't know people were still taking this team seriously.

But you keep tuning into those Wings games and let them know their fan base is ok with them continuing to milk them for money.

I'm going to spend this season watching teams that want to win a cup. I prefer to be a part of the solution not part of the problem.

We should collectively bankrupt the RW organization until they start running things to your personal satisfaction. What a brilliant solution!

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

20 straight years of being a top team in the league, followed by 3 mediocre years shows the true colors of spoiled fans.

To be fair, we've been mediocre since 2010.

 

[Ezekial]

To be fair, we've been mediocre since 2010.

Yup mediocre teams finish first in their division a la Red Wings 10-11.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Yup mediocre teams finish first in their division a la Red Wings 10-11.

And where did that get us, exactly? Not far at all.

 

[Ezekial]

And where did that get us, exactly? Not far at all.

Took a really good sharks team to 7 in the conference semis... Unless you're saying if you don't make the finals you're mediocre. Welp then we have extremely different philosophical differences. As do I and that wall of nonsense writing "fan".

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Took a really good sharks team to 7 in the conference semis... Unless you're saying if you don't make the finals you're mediocre. Welp then we have extremely different philosophical differences. As do I and that wall of nonsense writing "fan".

Conference Finals at least or bust used to be the philosophy & standards for the franchise, and for some reason have really relaxed, as shown by recent performances for the past few years.

 

[Ezekial]

Conference Finals at least or bust used to be the philosophy & standards for the franchise, and for some reason have really relaxed, as shown by recent performances for the past few years.

Well, I used the word mediocre thinking it would be read with its actual definition. It's not my fault you define mediocre as not ending the playoffs a top 4 team in a 30 team league. Lofty expectations breed disappointment.

Edit: I'm not happy or content with this team as is, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on them just yet.

 

[haulinbass]

We should collectively bankrupt the RW organization until they start running things to your personal satisfaction. What a brilliant solution!

Well that would be really bad management of the organization if they let that happen now wouldn't it?

Or are you saying it would take 10 years of zero fans before they got the point and by then it would be to late?

It's funny how far people will stretch to try and make someone wrong.

A significant but NOT organization destroying decline in TV ratings and attendance for a season or two would get the message across. Which would be that the fans are not happy with the direction of the team and the product they are pushing.

If you keep making a big profit while offering crap products why would they change that? They likely won't.

Like I said... Have fun watching a team that can't move the puck down ice. I watched 78+ Red Wings games per year for the past 15 years. I watch a ton of other NHL teams as well. Watching none playoff teams like Buffalo and Calgary last year was much more exciting than watching the Red Wings try to lock down the ice and grind out wins with insufficient talent. To make things worse the only player that was exciting to watch is now gone.

Maybe you guys should try watching some other teams and see what it's like before you make the decision to watch this horribly boring team for the next... How many years does Holland have this team handcuffed for?

That's the problem with this world. No matter how much a big corporation bends you over and charges ya they just take it and jump back into their mind "dumbing" activities.

If the Red Wings sucked for the next 8 years but were trying to acquire talent I would be all in and watch every game to see our young guys grow. But no, this teams going to keep trying to struggle into the playoffs for god knows how many more years and ultimately have to start that 8 year rebuild on top of all those waisted years. I'm not going to sit here and wait 15 years for this team to finally come around because they decided to milk some money and delay the inevitable. Quit messing around and let's start knocking this out now so we can have another team by the end of our lifetime.

But whatever, enjoy your 32 year olds on 6 year contracts. As long as things continue to be ran the same they will keep coming in the future.

Look at the thread about predicting our players point totals. The top points prediction is 60 points and the next two highest guys in their 50s. That's the product your watching? This team doesn't even have a single true first line forward or a true 1st line D. So we keep signing vets and play an absolutely horrible brand of hockey to watch just to keep afloat and sell more tickets. That is garbage. The Red Wings are one of the most brutal teams in the league to watch play. Go watch some other games.

Amazing that people suggest I am spoiled or not a true Wings fan. I'm a true Wings fan and making the ultimate sacrifice to look out for what is best for my team.

Just because we won a lot doesn't mean I should accept this crap. As I said, I'm willing to spend years watching bad hockey, as long as it is for a purpose.

 

[njx9]

We should collectively bankrupt the RW organization until they start running things to your personal satisfaction. What a brilliant solution!

What a bizarre comment. It's like you're suggesting that the consumer of a product should just shut their mouth and accept any changes the producer wants to make, no matter how detrimental they might be. As a consumer, your ONLY recourse to undesired product changes is to stop paying for them. This isn't a difficult concept.

 

[obey86]

Well that would be really bad management of the organization if they let that happen now wouldn't it?

Or are you saying it would take 10 years of zero fans before they got the point and by then it would be to late?

It's funny how far people will stretch to try and make someone wrong.

A significant but NOT organization destroying decline in TV ratings and attendance for a season or two would get the message across. Which would be that the fans are not happy with the direction of the team and the product they are pushing.

If you keep making a big profit while offering crap products why would they change that? They likely won't.

Like I said... Have fun watching a team that can't move the puck down ice. I watched 78+ Red Wings games per year for the past 15 years. I watch a ton of other NHL teams as well. Watching none playoff teams like Buffalo and Calgary last year was much more exciting than watching the Red Wings try to lock down the ice and grind out wins with insufficient talent. To make things worse the only player that was exciting to watch is now gone.

Maybe you guys should try watching some other teams and see what it's like before you make the decision to watch this horribly boring team for the next... How many years does Holland have this team handcuffed for?

That's the problem with this world. No matter how much a big corporation bends you over and charges ya they just take it and jump back into their mind "dumbing" activities.

If the Red Wings sucked for the next 8 years but were trying to acquire talent I would be all in and watch every game to see our young guys grow. But no, this teams going to keep trying to struggle into the playoffs for god knows how many more years and ultimately have to start that 8 year rebuild on top of all those waisted years. I'm not going to sit here and wait 15 years for this team to finally come around because they decided to milk some money and delay the inevitable. Quit messing around and let's start knocking this out now so we can have another team by the end of our lifetime.

But whatever, enjoy your 32 year olds on 6 year contracts. As long as things continue to be ran the same they will keep coming in the future.

Look at the thread about predicting our players point totals. The top points prediction is 60 points and the next two highest guys in their 50s. That's the product your watching? This team doesn't even have a single true first line forward or a true 1st line D. So we keep signing vets and play an absolutely horrible brand of hockey to watch just to keep afloat and sell more tickets. That is garbage. The Red Wings are one of the most brutal teams in the league to watch play. Go watch some other games.

Amazing that people suggest I am spoiled or not a true Wings fan. I'm a true Wings fan and making the ultimate sacrifice to look out for what is best for my team.

Just because we won a lot doesn't mean I should accept this crap. As I said, I'm willing to spend years watching bad hockey, as long as it is for a purpose.

Yeah, i'm sure the Buffalo team that scored a few less goals (-10) than the Red Wings, let in a few less goals (-2) than the Red Wings, finished behind the Red Wings in a standings, and was one of the worst 5 on 5 and puck possession teams in the league was so much more exciting to watch than the Wings were.

 

[haulinbass]

Yeah, i'm sure the Buffalo team that scored a few less goals (-10) than the Red Wings, let in a few less goals (-2) than the Red Wings, finished behind the Red Wings in a standings, and was one of the worst 5 on 5 and puck possession teams in the league was so much more exciting to watch than the Wings were.

Yeah it was. Ever heard of Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly and Ristolainen?

Watching the plays these guys made and more specifically Eichel was very entertaining. Eichel is a super star in the early stages and super stars are very entertaining.

These guys made much more exciting plays than anyone on the Wings. Unfortunately their rebuilding team has holes yet and they lost 6 more games than the Red Wings. SIX GAMES. You get that part about the six games?

Six lousy games less than Detroit and much more exciting core of players to watch. Who do you think was more interesting to watch? The team with skill and talent who won 6 less games out of 82 or the team with who grinded things out with their veteran depth?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Conference Finals at least or bust used to be the philosophy & standards for the franchise, and for some reason have really relaxed, as shown by recent performances for the past few years.

For some reason?

No matter if your standard is that you either win the cup or you've failed terribly, you're going to have some bad/mediocre years. It's just impossible to stay a top 4 team in the league for 30 years on end. We did it for 20 years and that alone is far beyond what any team is likely to do in the salary cap era.

The Ilitches set out to make the Wings a winning team again, and they accomplished that goal far better than anyone could imagine. Of course expectations on a team with prime superstars that hasn't won the cup in 40 years is different than expectations on a team with aging stars that is less than 10 years from the last cup and maintaining a 25 year old playoff streak.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; people are too quick to judge this team based on what the transition phase between core groups looks like.

 

[Ezekial]

Yeah it was. Ever heard of Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly and Ristolainen?

Watching the plays these guys made and more specifically Eichel was very entertaining. Eichel is a super star in the early stages and super stars are very entertaining.

These guys made much more exciting plays than anyone on the Wings. Unfortunately their rebuilding team has holes yet and they lost 6 more games than the Red Wings. SIX GAMES. You get that part about the six games?

Six lousy games less than Detroit and much more exciting core of players to watch. Who do you think was more interesting to watch? The team with skill and talent who won 6 less games out of 82 or the team with who grinded things out with their veteran depth?

Larkin was more exciting to watch than Eichel for the first half of the season.

The penguins won a measly 7 SEVEN seven siete more games than the Red Wings last year, 7! The Sharks won 5 FIVE five FIVE FIVE 5 5 5 5 5 FIVE more games than the Wings last year.
Edit: How big was the disparity between them in your mind?

 

[MTU hockey]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; people are too quick to judge this team based on what the transition phase between core groups looks like.

And how exactly is this team going to find this new core? because it clearly isn't going to be by tanking or by trades. Drafting in the 14-20 range is not an easy way (read: near impossible) to find a core player. Yes we drafted Larkin at 15 but we still don't know if he's a core player, and there is not larkins in every draft available in that drafting range. The problem is that this team isn't going anywhere until they have a true top pairing defenseman, and those are hard to draft and even harder to trade for, so until then there is no transition happening between cores. That's just a team stuck in mediocrity

 

[obey86]

Yeah it was. Ever heard of Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly and Ristolainen?

Watching the plays these guys made and more specifically Eichel was very entertaining. Eichel is a super star in the early stages and super stars are very entertaining.

These guys made much more exciting plays than anyone on the Wings. Unfortunately their rebuilding team has holes yet and they lost 6 more games than the Red Wings. SIX GAMES. You get that part about the six games?

Six lousy games less than Detroit and much more exciting core of players to watch. Who do you think was more interesting to watch? The team with skill and talent who won 6 less games out of 82 or the team with who grinded things out with their veteran depth?

This doesn't make any sense. The Sabres "grinded things out" just as much as the Wings did....they just did a worse job at it. For all their skill and talent (that the Wings apparently don't have) the Sabres offense sucked even more than the Wings offense did.

I'm sure it was super exciting and riveting hockey (from the Sabres perspective) watching the other team with the puck all game.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And how exactly is this team going to find this new core?

Through the draft. One way or another. Either throught the picks we've made and continue to make in the 15-20 range of the 1st round and in the later rounds, or by the team simply getting worse and getting better picks in time (which is bound to happen as early as next season if all the negativity is anything to go by).

We're not going to be a top contender in the next 2-3 years, but anyone who claims to know how good this team can be in 4-5 years with Larkin, Mantha, AA, Cholowski, Saarijarvi, Mrazek, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Hronek, Russo etc etc. is full of themselves. Projecting prospects 1 year into the future is near impossible even for professional scout. It's funny how everyone is freaked out because we don't know Larkin is going to be a core player but no one ever seems to acknowledge the possibility and almost probability of someone we're not counting on becoming a star.

But the main point is that we haven't transitioned yet. Last year was still very much a Datsyuk/Zetterberg team. The transition between cores can't always be as smooth as it was back in the early 00s, this time we don't have a Lidstrom to bridge the gap. But that doesn't have to mean our young players are not going to be able to carry the team in the future.

 

[MTU hockey]

Through the draft. One way or another. Either throught the picks we've made and continue to make in the 15-20 range of the 1st round and in the later rounds, or by the team simply getting worse and getting better picks in time (which is bound to happen as early as next season if all the negativity is anything to go by).

We're not going to be a top contender in the next 2-3 years, but anyone who claims to know how good this team can be in 4-5 years with Larkin, Mantha, AA, Cholowski, Saarijarvi, Mrazek, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Hronek, Russo etc etc. is full of themselves. Projecting prospects 1 year into the future is near impossible even for professional scout. It's funny how everyone is freaked out because we don't know Larkin is going to be a core player but no one ever seems to acknowledge the possibility and almost probability of someone we're not counting on becoming a star.

But the main point is that we haven't transitioned yet. Last year was still very much a Datsyuk/Zetterberg team. The transition between cores can't always be as smooth as it was back in the early 00s, this time we don't have a Lidstrom to bridge the gap. But that doesn't have to mean our young players are not going to be able to carry the team in the future.

So we either have to get super lucky drafting in the mid first round or we have to rely on one of the current prospects dramatically exceeding expectaions. good plan

 

[Bench]

So we either have to get super lucky drafting in the mid first round or we have to rely on one of the current prospects dramatically exceeding expectaions. good plan

To be fair other franchises kind of rely on the exact same thing. Without a little luck later in the draft it's hard to fill out every position.