News Article: NHL.com: Inside look at Detroit Red Wings

[Bench]

The NHL has been doing a story on each team all month. Today was the Wings. So let's see what they had to say about our team.

https://www.nhl.com/news/detroit-red-wings-season-outlook-30-in-30/c-281335020?tid=281244176

The Detroit Red Wings find themselves in a rut.

Yes, they have reached the Stanley Cup Playoffs for 25 consecutive seasons, but they have been eliminated in the first round in four of the past five.

It's official. We're in a rut. Rut confirmed.

"Rebuilds take 8-10 years in my opinion, and that's if you want to tank it and go through a massive rebuild. I don't think anybody wants to go through a massive rebuild," Detroit general manager Ken Holland said. "I think we've got to try to marginally get better, maybe change the look of our team a little bit, and we've got to try to find a way to make the playoffs and give ourselves another opportunity."

The essence of the Red Wings management philosophy. Rebuilds take 10 years, so just try to Bob Wiley baby step your way to a contender.

The rest of the article breaks down the free agent signings, noting that Vanek should be motivated and that Nielsen is a great two-way player. It highlights the DeKeyser and Mrazek deals. Nothing of interest really.

But the primary takeaway is the headline which reads: "After losing Pavel Datsyuk, add veterans to keep playoff streak going without total rebuild." Holland is pretty adamant this team is going to stay the course trying to keep afloat and hope they can piece together a winner. Which, hey, I actually think that's not a terrible idea. I'm not huge on rebuilds, personally. I'm also not huge on the length of contracts to the bottom line forwards that are being collected. So while I don't mind the vision, the execution is uneven to say the least.

Overall it reads like a team hoping to sneak into the playoffs and go on a run.

Click to read more...

 

[Shaman464]

The NHL has been doing a story on each team all month. Today was the Wings. So let's see what they had to say about our team.

https://www.nhl.com/news/detroit-red-wings-season-outlook-30-in-30/c-281335020?tid=281244176



It's official. We're in a rut. Rut confirmed.



The essence of the Red Wings management philosophy. Rebuilds take 10 years, so just try to Bob Wiley baby step your way to a contender.

The rest of the article breaks down the free agent signings, noting that Vanek should be motivated and that Nielsen is a great two-way player. It highlights the DeKeyser and Mrazek deals. Nothing of interest really.

But the primary takeaway is the headline which reads: "After losing Pavel Datsyuk, add veterans to keep playoff streak going without total rebuild." Holland is pretty adamant this team is going to stay the course trying to keep afloat and hope they can piece together a winner. Which, hey, I actually think that's not a terrible idea. I'm not huge on rebuilds, personally. I'm also not huge on the length of contracts to the bottom line forwards that are being collected. So while I don't mind the vision, the execution is uneven to say the least.

Overall it reads like a team hoping to sneak into the playoffs and go on a run.

I mean you can believe that somehow untalented teams win, but it's up there with believing life is fair being the biggest lies people tell themselves.

 

[Claypool]

There's nothing new in this article. It just publishes a bunch of data from last season and includes quotes from management and players that was taken at the end of the season and free agency. Not exactly what I would call an inside look. They also list Xavier Ouellet as the team's #2 prospect, which is hilarious.

Larkin would have been a top 5 pick of his draft class if there was a do over. Turns out you can get top-end, elite talent if you draft and develop well, which management has been trying to do. Oh, they also have a 24-year old netminder who could become one of the game's best goalies. What a terrible rut to be in.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

There's nothing new in this article. It just publishes a bunch of data from last season and includes quotes from management and players that was taken at the end of the season and free agency. Not exactly what I would call an inside look. They also list Xavier Ouellet as the team's #2 prospect, which is hilarious.

Larkin would have been a top 5 pick of his draft class if there was a do over. Turns out you can get top-end, elite talent if you draft and develop well, which management has been trying to do. Oh, they also have a 24-year old netminder who could become one of the game's best goalies. What a terrible rut to be in.

The playoff results of the Wings over the last half dozen years speak for themselves. You ultimately are what your record says that you are.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

It will continue to be a dumpster fire until those in the front office that still think its 1997 get with the times and how the league is played today, to have the correct players signed, and the most sane lineup possible that gives this franchise the best chance at a long cup run.

This meaningless playoff streak and 1st round elimination crap has to end.

 

[Frk It]

Larkin would have been a top 5 pick of his draft class if there was a do over. Turns out you can get top-end, elite talent if you draft and develop well, which management has been trying to do. Oh, they also have a 24-year old netminder who could become one of the game's best goalies. What a terrible rut to be in.

Larkin developed incredibly well. Maybe the best 1 year development progress I have ever seen from a player after being drafted.

But not really sure how we are responsible for that development? USNTDP program and Michigan seems like they aided with most of that development, along with Larkin's crazy work ethic.

Odds are also incredibly low we replicate that success again with where we draft, but here's to hoping we can.

 

[Ezekial]

The playoff results of the Wings over the last half dozen years speak for themselves. You ultimately are what your record says that you are.

Toronto has won 3 playoff games in the last 11 seasons and not won a cup since the moon landing. Maybe they'll win one in the next ten years. Fact of the matter is we've had one #15 pick in 25 years and we still have elite potential 24 year old keeper and 20 year old, hopefully Cholo our someone explodes. At least were not Vancouver with a GM trying to make the playoffs, unless of course you think they're in better shape than us. I don't, except for Juolevi.

 

[Mister Ed]

Larkin developed incredibly well. Maybe the best 1 year development progress I have ever seen from a player after being drafted.

But not really sure how we are responsible for that development? USNTDP program and Michigan seems like they aided with most of that development, along with Larkin's crazy work ethic.

Odds are also incredibly low we replicate that success again with where we draft, but here's to hoping we can.

Can't forget the World Hockey Championship also, I think that's really where he got the most confidence, playing with/against men.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Toronto has won 3 playoff games in the last 11 seasons and not won a cup since the moon landing. Maybe they'll win one in the next ten years. Fact of the matter is we've had one #15 pick in 25 years and we still have elite potential 24 year old keeper and 20 year old, hopefully Cholo our someone explodes. At least were not Vancouver with a GM trying to make the playoffs, unless of course you think they're in better shape than us. I don't, except for Juolevi.

And we cannot get past the first round of the playoffs. Being impressed with mediocrity is a very, very bad habit.

 

[Ezekial]

And we cannot get past the first round of the playoffs. Being impressed with mediocrity is a very, very bad habit.

Who said they're impressed?
TBH I was pretty impressed by our 14-15 playoff appearance, definitely should've had that one against the eventual SC Finalist.
Can't is a strong word.

Getting stuck in a losing culture is a very bad habit.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

And we cannot get past the first round of the playoffs. Being impressed with mediocrity is a very, very bad habit.

It is a reoccurring habit our front office seems to be perfectly content with since 2010, for whatever baffling reason.

 

[13to40]

Wings are making the playoffs this year and it won't be on the last day.

 

[Flowah]

But the primary takeaway is the headline which reads: "After losing Pavel Datsyuk, add veterans to keep playoff streak going without total rebuild." Holland is pretty adamant this team is going to stay the course trying to keep afloat and hope they can piece together a winner. Which, hey, I actually think that's not a terrible idea. I'm not huge on rebuilds, personally. I'm also not huge on the length of contracts to the bottom line forwards that are being collected. So while I don't mind the vision, the execution is uneven to say the least.

Overall it reads like a team hoping to sneak into the playoffs and go on a run.

I'm with you. It's not a terrible idea.

The execution is god awful though. Why Helm? Why Miller? Why Ott? Not like we really needed to fill out our bottom 6. Not like those players are irreplaceable talents. Not like we had cap room to burn. Not like we don't have capable players in GR we could have used instead. Not like 4th line depth forwards aren't a dime a dozen at any point in the season.

The idea is fine. If we get guys like Vanek and Nielsen, guys with actual talent to address actual needs that can't be appropriately filled otherwise, that's great! He's doing more than that though and it's weird to watch.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Wings are making the playoffs this year and it won't be on the last day.

Maybe...but if you're right we're exciting the playoffs and it won't even be the last day of the first round.

 

[Henkka]

It doesn't really matter what kind of deals we do for veterans as long as they find new young core players at same time. This whole thing totally overblown.

During last 6 seasons, they have found already two without tanking and drafting high. Larkin and Mrazek are reality. Find another great forward and a 1st defenceman and there you go. Supporting cast is already signed and our depth drafting is working well.

 

[Ezekial]

I'm with you. It's not a terrible idea.

The execution is god awful though. Why Helm? Why Miller? Why Ott? Not like we really needed to fill out our bottom 6. Not like those players are irreplaceable talents. Not like we had cap room to burn. Not like we don't have capable players in GR we could have used instead. Not like 4th line depth forwards aren't a dime a dozen at any point in the season.

The idea is fine. If we get guys like Vanek and Nielsen, guys with actual talent to address actual needs that can't be appropriately filled otherwise, that's great! He's doing more than that though and it's weird to watch.

I completely agree with you guys, I like moves like Vanek and Nielsen, but it all seems disjointed when you look at the Helm/Ott/Miller moves (I could live with one of Ott and Miller)

I don't know how he didn't leave a spot open for a kid... Did he not watch Larkin and AA last year? Young guys these days all don't need 6 years to get ready, it's so short sighted.

I'm sure some people will miss some time though, hopefully someone can come up and stay.

 

[13to40]

I completely agree with you guys, I like moves like Vanek and Nielsen, but it all seems disjointed when you look at the Helm/Ott/Miller moves (I could live with one of Ott and Miller)

I don't know how he didn't leave a spot open for a kid... Did he not watch Larkin and AA last year? Young guys these days all don't need 6 years to get ready, it's so short sighted.

I'm sure some people will miss some time though, hopefully someone can come up and stay.

Don't forget lots of guys will be at the tournament so our pre season team will be needing some veteran replacements. Also, like you mentioned; our team usually does have lots of injuries every year. Some extra depth is nice for if we run into similar problems as we have in the past.

 

[Shaman464]

It doesn't really matter what kind of deals we do for veterans as long as they find new young core players at same time. This whole thing totally overblown.

During last 6 seasons, they have found already two without tanking and drafting high. Larkin and Mrazek are reality. Find another great forward and a 1st defenceman and there you go. Supporting cast is already signed and our depth drafting is working well.

Or another way to put it is that since the 2000 draft they have found exactly 2 pieces that are better than good.

 

[izlez]

The playoff results of the Wings over the last half dozen years speak for themselves. You ultimately are what your record says that you are.

oh man....if only that we're true on this board.


I'd love to see a poll of "who is the better team? Red wings vs Buffalo, Toronto, Winnipeg, Florida, Boston, Montreal, Calgary"

 

[Henkka]

I completely agree with you guys, I like moves like Vanek and Nielsen, but it all seems disjointed when you look at the Helm/Ott/Miller moves (I could live with one of Ott and Miller)

I don't know how he didn't leave a spot open for a kid... Did he not watch Larkin and AA last year? Young guys these days all don't need 6 years to get ready, it's so short sighted.

I'm sure some people will miss some time though, hopefully someone can come up and stay.

It's the kids job to push the vet out. Nothing is handed for free. Red Wings way. And I love it.

Safest bet is to have decent vet and then compare a kid for him, if the kid is not better, send him down to develop more with bigger ice-time.

Larkin was enough good at last season and never looked back.

Mrazek is pushing hard Howard towards a buyout.

Marchenko pushed Quincey out.
DeKeyser pushed people out from his way.
Bertuzzi will push Ott out on some day etc.

It's so clear that Holland even does to sign a same kind of vet player type for the roster spot competition against the kid.

Mantha = Vanek (net-front precense, sniper)
Bertuzzi = Ott (pest, PK guy)
Athanasiou = Helm/Nielsen (speedy center)

It's an open competition. Work hard, be better and all world is yours. Be lazy and uninterested, and have a career in AHL bus.

 

[Frk It]

oh man....if only that we're true on this board.


I'd love to see a poll of "who is the better team? Red wings vs Buffalo, Toronto, Winnipeg, Florida, Boston, Montreal, Calgary"

Trajectory is the word you are looking for.

 

[Dexter Colt]

I've been more or less out of the loop for the last couple months, but I wasn't expecting Holland to go on the record with his plan of making marginal roster moves and hoping for the best.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It's the kids job to push the vet out. Nothing is handed for free. Red Wings way. And I love it.

Safest bet is to have decent vet and then compare a kid for him, if the kid is not better, send him down to develop more with bigger ice-time.

Larkin was enough good at last season and never looked back.

Mrazek is pushing hard Howard towards a buyout.

Marchenko pushed Quincey out.
DeKeyser pushed people out from his way.
Bertuzzi will push Ott out on some day etc.

It's so clear that Holland even does to sign a same kind of vet player type for the roster spot competition against the kid.

Mantha = Vanek (net-front precense, sniper)
Bertuzzi = Ott (pest, PK guy)
Athanasiou = Helm/Nielsen (speedy center)

It's an open competition. Work hard, be better and all world is yours. Be lazy and uninterested, and have a career in AHL bus.

It has its merit, but: (a) it is not a true open competition due to roster spots, waiver eligibility and contracts, (b) I am not sure it actually builds the team towards anything or allows us to build more quickly than we otherwise would.

 

[Henkka]

It has its merit, but: (a) it is not a true open competition due to roster spots, waiver eligibility and contracts, (b) I am not sure it actually builds the team towards anything or allows us to build more quickly than we otherwise would.

Still, only Babcock has said this "tie goes to the veteran" -mantra. Ken Holland has brought Jurco, Larkin, and Mrazek in after last 2 pre-seasons, even though they were waiver-eligible. THIS IS A PROVEN FACT. DeKeyser also came straight in. Played at AHL playoffs only because Wings season was over.

So vets are not automaticly stealing spots. THIS IS A PROVEN FACT. That was probably a case +3 years ago when our prospects sucked and there was nothing but late bloomers. Now, our prospect development is better and kids here and there are stealing spots. Some aren't, but some are.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Still, only Babcock has said this "tie goes to the veteran" -mantra. Ken Holland has brought Jurco, Larkin, and Mrazek in after last 2 pre-seasons, even though they were waiver-eligible. THIS IS A PROVEN FACT. DeKeyser also came straight in. Played at AHL playoffs only because Wings season was over.

So vets are not automaticly stealing spots. THIS IS A PROVEN FACT. That was probably a case +3 years ago when our prospects sucked and there was nothing but late bloomers. Now, our prospect development is better and kids here and there are stealing spots. Some aren't, but some are.

Absent an injury, AA and Mantha will both start the season in GR regardless of how well they play or how ready they are. It is not the meritocracy that you think it is.