NHL cautiously optimistic about 2021 World Cup.

[HugoSimon]

I think the simpliest format is to have the big six teams.

Add in Quebec since they are essentially their own country. This is done for Scotland(in soccer) and it makes way more sense considering Quebecois nationalism. Especially relevant since this entire tournament is a cash grab for midwestern/Canadian ticket buyers.

In addition take the host states/provinces hockey team and allow them to play too. When doing so draft all players who grew up in that "region" or played for that regions teams.

EDIT: Or you could let that team draft whatever players they want. I.e. give them 5 drafted players.

Alternatively allow people to draft teams by ancestry. So team germany could use german american players.

 

[JackSlater]

I think the simpliest format is to have the big six teams.

Add in Quebec since they are essentially their own country. This is done for Scotland(in soccer) and it makes way more sense considering Quebecois nationalism. Especially relevant since this entire tournament is a cash grab for midwestern/Canadian ticket buyers.

In addition take the host states/provinces hockey team and allow them to play too. When doing so draft all players who grew up in that "region" or played for that regions teams.

EDIT: Or you could let that team draft whatever players they want. I.e. give them 5 drafted players.

Alternatively allow people to draft teams by ancestry. So team germany could use german american players.

By no means is Quebec its own country and despite what the NHL did in 2016 it's hard to imagine the league being stupid enough to walk into the political issue of creating a team Quebec in an allegedly international tournament.

The idea about teams based on ancestry however actually was brought up by Bill Daly. It's very stupid but it wouldn't shock me to see it at some point.

 

[Gold Standard]

are they still talking about a mini 7 day gimmick tournament? yawn. I'll take a pass. no interest. gimmicks can take a long deep dive into Lake Ontario in mid February.

 

[HugoSimon]

By no means is Quebec its own country and despite what the NHL did in 2016 it's hard to imagine the league being stupid enough to walk into the political issue of creating a team Quebec in an allegedly international tournament.

Neither is scotland yet it has its own representation in FIFA.

Considering this isn't really a national contest but a money grab I think it makes sense. That political rivalry is why it's such a good idea. The separatist generation is dying out. At this point you might as well call it regional nationalism more than anything else. There is a lot of acceptance with the younger generation that they have no desire to leave Canada but they also don't consider themselves a part of ROC.

 

[JackSlater]

Neither is scotland yet it has its own representation in FIFA.

Considering this isn't really a national contest but a money grab I think it makes sense. That political rivalry is why it's such a good idea. The separatist generation is dying out. At this point you might as well call it regional nationalism more than anything else. There is a lot of acceptance with the younger generation that they have no desire to leave Canada but they also don't consider themselves a part of ROC.

Scotland is a country with a parliament and centuries of history as a sovereign state. It even has its own football association to govern the sport without oversight in the region. Quebec is and has none of those things and is obviously quite a different situation, even if a person did care what Fifa does. A much closer comparison would be something like Fifa allowing Catalonia to have a team, and even then Quebec has much less of a case. Regardless, it's a very dumb idea because of the inevitable political annoyance as well as the idiocy of putting a province into an allegedly international tournament and also leaving no legitimate version of team Canada.

 

[cg98]

Neither is scotland yet it has its own representation in FIFA.

Considering this isn't really a national contest but a money grab I think it makes sense. That political rivalry is why it's such a good idea. The separatist generation is dying out. At this point you might as well call it regional nationalism more than anything else. There is a lot of acceptance with the younger generation that they have no desire to leave Canada but they also don't consider themselves a part of ROC.

Trying to compare Quebec to Scotland..

 

[alce]

Neither is scotland yet it has its own representation in FIFA.

Scottish Football Association is older than FIFA. SFA is even member of IFAB, organization that set football rules. Together with FIFA, Irish, British and Welsh federations. It's a completely different story.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Yeah, it's a little bit early, but what rosters will the teams bring to the tournament, I wonder. As to Russia, well, the only KHL player is possible, is probably Tkachev. He looks really great and can be next Panarin/Gusev type of players. With Mikheyev/Barbashev in the NHL, we don't need CSKA grinders that much anymore. Kaprizov will play in the NHL. I hope, Voynov too. That's it.

 

[HugoSimon]

Scotland is a country with a parliament and centuries of history as a sovereign state. It even has its own football association to govern the sport without oversight in the region. Quebec is and has none of those things and is obviously quite a different situation, even if a person did care what Fifa does. A much closer comparison would be something like Fifa allowing Catalonia to have a team, and even then Quebec has much less of a case. Regardless, it's a very dumb idea because of the inevitable political annoyance as well as the idiocy of putting a province into an allegedly international tournament and also leaving no legitimate version of team Canada.

The NHL isn't fifa, quebecois nationalism is a thing. Quebec has officially been called a nation within a nation and in sporting terms it makes perfect sense for them to have their own team.

The world cup isn't a real world cup. It is a cash grab to get money of areas under served by the nhl.

It consists almost entirely of NHL players.

 

[JackSlater]

The NHL isn't fifa, quebecois nationalism is a thing. Quebec has officially been called a nation within a nation and in sporting terms it makes perfect sense for them to have their own team.

The world cup isn't a real world cup. It is a cash grab to get money of areas under served by the nhl.

It consists almost entirely of NHL players.

You're the one who brought up fifa in this context in the first place. Yes it was a poor example for you to bring up, but no need to try to blatantly walk it back now. Quebec is no nation despite political pandering and certainly has no case for having a team in anything presented as an "international" tournament. It's a bad idea for a variety of reasons.

I don't know what exactly a "real world cup" is but I certainly concede that the 2016 tournament was a bad joke and any future editions of the tournament that feature non-national teams will also be bad jokes.

 

[cg98]

The NHL isn't fifa, quebecois nationalism is a thing. Quebec has officially been called a nation within a nation and in sporting terms it makes perfect sense for them to have their own team.

The world cup isn't a real world cup. It is a cash grab to get money of areas under served by the nhl.

It consists almost entirely of NHL players.

Except Quebec has never been a sovereign nation and probably never will be. No one has ever officially recognized Quebec as an enclave nation or sovereign nation. Quebec is not the same as Scotland. Go away.

 

[HugoSimon]

Except Quebec has never been a sovereign nation and probably never will be. No one has ever officially recognized Quebec as an enclave nation or sovereign nation. Quebec is not the same as Scotland. Go away.

Québécois nation motion - Wikipedia

I'm not gonna play games with you, we both know that there is a difference between wanting to separate from Canada in legal terms and separation in cultural terms.

The fact is Quebecois see themselves as something different from mainstream Canadians.

The NHL isn't restricted to IIHF rules and a special situation already exists in Fifa.

The bloc seperatist party(do not make this political) just had a huge showing in Quebec.

To those outside of Canada it is obvious whatever the case that the Quebecois do not see themselves as regular Canadians.

Having a team of their own in a cash grab isn't an issue.

The fact is the Quebecois would be more than interested in having their own team and would make the WC a unique experience for NHL fans.

Regardless of the technicalities of the provincial system they speak their own language. At the very least that is enough reason to consider having their own team.

To make a WC mean something this is a very low hanging fruit.

 

[HugoSimon]

You're the one who brought up fifa in this context in the first place. Yes it was a poor example for you to bring up, but no need to try to blatantly walk it back now. Quebec is no nation despite political pandering and certainly has no case for having a team in anything presented as an "international" tournament. It's a bad idea for a variety of reasons.

I don't know what exactly a "real world cup" is but I certainly concede that the 2016 tournament was a bad joke and any future editions of the tournament that feature non-national teams will also be bad jokes.

Because the FIFA example is relevant.

Regardless of the technicalities quebec is its own nation easily more so than Scotland.

They have their own language, politics, legal system, culture, and narrative that goes along with it.

Quebec is absolutely a nation within a nation. For most purposes it is inappropriate but in this case it makes perfect sense.

If you could find an American equivalent I'm all ears.

 

[JackSlater]

Because the FIFA example is relevant.

Regardless of the technicalities quebec is its own nation easily more so than Scotland.

They have their own language, politics, legal system, culture, and narrative that goes along with it.

Quebec is absolutely a nation within a nation. For most purposes it is inappropriate but in this case it makes perfect sense.

If you could find an American equivalent I'm all ears.

You're the one who just tried to throw away the fifa example, after bringing it up. Quebec is in fact not a nation - it is a province. That is a fact. Scotland is a country - Quebec is not. Scotland has its own parliament - Quebec does not. Scotland has centuries of history as a sovereign state - Quebec does not. Scotland has its own soccer federation - Quebec does not, because it is a province that has a provincial federation just like every other province in Canada.

Repeating your own misunderstandings about Quebec is doesn't make the idea to have a Quebec national team less stupid. Quebec is not a nation, and thus it would be a provincial team. It would also make it impossible to make a team Canada, since one of the ten provinces would be missing. It would make the tournament no longer "international"as the games would not all be contested between national teams. It would spark needless controversy in Canada that would create a sideshow to the games. It would put players in an awkward position because some players (Brodeur for instance) have said that they would never want to play for a team Quebec rather than a team Canada anyway. It's a stupid idea on so many levels. Quebec behaving like every province by having a languages, laws, culture etc. that all belong to the larger Canadian context changes nothing, as every other province also has its own unique features.

Your request for an American equivalent is bizarre and irrelevant, given that USA has no relevance to this discussion. I assume it is an attempt to grasp at straws given that your Scotland example blew up in your face very badly.

 

[jj cale]

Because the FIFA example is relevant.

Regardless of the technicalities quebec is its own nation easily more so than Scotland.

They have their own language, politics, legal system, culture, and narrative that goes along with it.

Quebec is absolutely a nation within a nation. For most purposes it is inappropriate but in this case it makes perfect sense.

If you could find an American equivalent I'm all ears.

may i ask where you are from?

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

You're the one who just tried to throw away the fifa example, after bringing it up. Quebec is in fact not a nation - it is a province. That is a fact. Scotland is a country - Quebec is not. Scotland has its own parliament - Quebec does not. Scotland has centuries of history as a sovereign state - Quebec does not. Scotland has its own soccer federation - Quebec does not, because it is a province that has a provincial federation just like every other province in Canada.

Repeating your own misunderstandings about Quebec is doesn't make the idea to have a Quebec national team less stupid. Quebec is not a nation, and thus it would be a provincial team. It would also make it impossible to make a team Canada, since one of the ten provinces would be missing. It would make the tournament no longer "international"as the games would not all be contested between national teams. It would spark needless controversy in Canada that would create a sideshow to the games. It would put players in an awkward position because some players (Brodeur for instance) have said that they would never want to play for a team Quebec rather than a team Canada anyway. It's a stupid idea on so many levels. Quebec behaving like every province by having a languages, laws, culture etc. that all belong to the larger Canadian context changes nothing, as every other province also has its own unique features.

Your request for an American equivalent is bizarre and irrelevant, given that USA has no relevance to this discussion. I assume it is an attempt to grasp at straws given that your Scotland example blew up in your face very badly.

I don't support the idea of a Team Québec in the World Cup, but some of these statements are just plain false. Québec most definitely has its own parliament. And it is a nation by just about any definition. Scotland is a fine comparable. Now in this case it doesn't matter. Scotland doesn't have its own soccer team because its somehow a more "elevated" sociocultural entity. It has its own soccer team because its federation predates FIFA, and so it was grandfathered in. If its federation had been created later, it would have been part of team UK, regardless of how many centuries it has as a sovereign state.

For some reason, when there are threads about what team Alberta or team Ontario would look like, you don't immediately get those angry, weirdly defensive statements in response. I wonder why...

 

[JackSlater]

I don't support the idea of a Team Québec in the World Cup, but some of these statements are just plain false. Québec most definitely has its own parliament. And it is a nation by just about any definition. Scotland is a fine comparable. Now in this case it doesn't matter. Scotland doesn't have its own soccer team because its somehow a more "elevated" sociocultural entity. It has its own soccer team because its federation predates FIFA, and so it was grandfathered in. If its federation had been created later, it would have been part of team UK, regardless of how many centuries it has as a sovereign state.

For some reason, when there are threads about what team Alberta or team Ontario would look like, you don't immediately get those angry, weirdly defensive statements in response. I wonder why...

You may want the situations to be comparable, but they clearly are not. Quebec has a provincial government - no more than the other provinces in Canada have. It is very much unlike the Scottish Parliament which has legislative powers beyond those of any Canadian province. I'm glad you agree that Scotland actually has its own soccer federation, unlike in hockey with the Canadian province of Quebec which has its hockey largely controlled by the national body, Hockey Canada.

A team Ontario or team X Province would be just as stupid, though wouldn't come with the political baggage. Team North America at the 2016 World Cup was arguably more stupid and was rightly ripped by many people. Play the martyr if you wish though.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

You may want the situations to be comparable, but they clearly are not. Quebec has a provincial government - no more than the other provinces in Canada have. It is very much unlike the Scottish Parliament which has legislative powers beyond those of any Canadian province. I'm glad you agree that Scotland actually has its own soccer federation, unlike in hockey with the Canadian province of Quebec which has its hockey largely controlled by the national body, Hockey Canada.

A team Ontario or team X Province would be just as stupid, though wouldn't come with the political baggage. Team North America at the 2016 World Cup was arguably more stupid and was rightly ripped by many people. Play the martyr if you wish though.

Actually, the powers of both Parliaments are widely similar. And that's only since devolution in 1997, before which there was no Scottish Parliament, and all powers were in Westminster. You could argue that the "reserved powers" model gives more latitude to Scotland in some areas, but that would be going very OT, and well beyond the original scope of this thread.

I don't go around saying bullshit in threads about Alberta, or Nova Scotia. Why is it so hard for Canadians to do the same with Québec?

 

[JackSlater]

Actually, the powers of both Parliaments are widely similar. And that's only since devolution in 1997, before which there was no Scottish Parliament, and all powers were in Westminster. You could argue that the "reserved powers" model gives more latitude to Scotland in some areas, but that would be going very OT, and well beyond the original scope of this thread.

I don't go around saying bull**** in threads about Alberta, or Nova Scotia. Why is it so hard for Canadians to do the same with Québec?

I do agree that before 1998 it would be very similar politically. Saying that the Canadian province of Quebec is not a nation is not bullshit but a fact, and the example is quite different from the case with Scotland and soccer. To be honest the poster would have been much better off saying Quebecois and trying to parallel it with the Iroquois team in lacrosse, but that isn't the path that was taken.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I do agree that before 1998 it would be very similar politically. Saying that the Canadian province of Quebec is not a nation is not bull**** but a fact, and the example is quite different from the case with Scotland and soccer. To be honest the poster would have been much better off saying Quebecois and trying to parallel it with the Iroquois team in lacrosse, but that isn't the path that was taken.

Before 1998, I'd argue Scotland was significantly less independent in terms of powers than Québec, despite the all-important status of having a soccer team.

Also, "Nation: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory"

Maybe I've seen too many threads that mention *this subject* get locked because some people always use this as an opportunity for Quebec-bashing, so I'm a bit touchy. Regardless, there won't be a Team Québec in the World Cup and the reactions on this page is just one of the many reasons why.

 

[JackSlater]

Before 1998, I'd argue Scotland was significantly less independent in terms of powers than Québec, despite the all-important status of having a soccer team.

Also, "Nation: a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory"

Maybe I've seen too many threads that mention *this subject* get locked because some people always use this as an opportunity for Quebec-bashing, so I'm a bit touchy. Regardless, there won't be a Team Québec in the World Cup and the reactions on this page is just one of the many reasons why.

I'm familiar with the definition and I know that it does not apply to Quebec. It doesn't apply to any Canadian province. I don't even know if the NHL would consider the reactions when deciding on a team to be honest given how stupidly the NHL handled the 2016 tournament, but it is possible.

 

[cg98]

Québécois nation motion - Wikipedia

I'm not gonna play games with you, we both know that there is a difference between wanting to separate from Canada in legal terms and separation in cultural terms.

The fact is Quebecois see themselves as something different from mainstream Canadians.

The NHL isn't restricted to IIHF rules and a special situation already exists in Fifa.

The bloc seperatist party(do not make this political) just had a huge showing in Quebec.

To those outside of Canada it is obvious whatever the case that the Quebecois do not see themselves as regular Canadians.

Having a team of their own in a cash grab isn't an issue.

The fact is the Quebecois would be more than interested in having their own team and would make the WC a unique experience for NHL fans.

Regardless of the technicalities of the provincial system they speak their own language. At the very least that is enough reason to consider having their own team.

To make a WC mean something this is a very low hanging fruit.

Cool. That still doesnt change the fact that no one has ever recognized Quebec as a sovereign nation or enclave nation, and it still isnt.

 

[HugoSimon]

I'm familiar with the definition and I know that it does not apply to Quebec. It doesn't apply to any Canadian province. I don't even know if the NHL would consider the reactions when deciding on a team to be honest given how stupidly the NHL handled the 2016 tournament, but it is possible.

They got what they wanted. And my understanding was that it generated a ton of revenue.

To me its clearly an extension of the winter classic/all star game etc. They can and should do whatever they want. Generating passion is the name of the game and regional teams would be a great way of doing so.

Alternative ideas that I can think of are adding in the Hartford Whalers and the Quebec Nordiques.

Select players from New England/New York for one, and people from the Q league for the other.

Or create a Wisconsin team and select players from Minnesota/Illinois/Michigan.

 

[Gold Standard]

They got what they wanted. And my understanding was that it generated a ton of revenue.

To me its clearly an extension of the winter classic/all star game etc. They can and should do whatever they want. Generating passion is the name of the game and regional teams would be a great way of doing so.

Alternative ideas that I can think of are adding in the Hartford Whalers and the Quebec Nordiques.

Select players from New England/New York for one, and people from the Q league for the other.

Or create a Wisconsin team and select players from Minnesota/Illinois/Michigan.

your understanding would be incorrect. revenue fell way way below expectations. it hardly moved the needle on the revenue side of the ledger. If the NHL continues down the gimmicky road, then whatever growth potential this tournament had will be flushed down the toilet forever.

a traditional international tournament without the gimmicks is the only option the NHL has in cooperation with other IIHF international tournaments, the annual World Championships and NHL Olympics.

 

[Jahara]

The world cup isn't a real world cup. It is a cash grab to get money of areas under served by the nhl.

It consists almost entirely of NHL players.

What is the World Championship then? Just a dull nonsense tournament compared to World Cup that contains all the best players.

I don't know what exactly a "real world cup" is but I certainly concede that the 2016 tournament was a bad joke and any future editions of the tournament that feature non-national teams will also be bad jokes.

I do prefer World Cup in 2016 way over a World Championship. World Championship is much more of a "bad joke".

your understanding would be incorrect. revenue fell way way below expectations. it hardly moved the needle on the revenue side of the ledger. If the NHL continues down the gimmicky road, then whatever growth potential this tournament had will be flushed down the toilet forever.

a traditional international tournament without the gimmicks is the only option the NHL has in cooperation with other IIHF international tournaments, the annual World Championships and NHL Olympics.

Pathetic to complain about the NHL trying something new. Did anyone really miss Germany or Slovakia?