Next season

[windsor7]

Still, it is mandated. Generall speaking, the stores are enforcing the policies sort forth by their towns and states etc.

West Hollywood is enforcing it now.
1st offence $250
2nd $1000
3rd $2000
4th $5000

The reality is wearing a face covering in the USA is far accepted than in Canada by a wide margin.

I walk into a grocery store here and maybe 1 in 8 people are wearing one.

The point is, the USA has done way more in this regard and yet they are hit harder.

This all begs the question of how much facemasks matter?

Removing a face covering requires proper care otherwise you risk hand contamination. Also, a facemask can provide a false sense of security. They wear them under their chins or only when it is convenient. They rarely get washed going on and off all day for a long period of time. For all we know they could be a significant carrier because they are not properly disinfected regularly.

Yes, maybe it does help protect the public from you but if your face covering is covered with the virus from many interactions and you are touching it with your hands and spreading it to every surface you touch, is it good?

Again, we really don't know enough.

Wearing of face coverings is a very hot topic globally.

Yet places like Florida have over 10 thousand cases in 1 day.
So its really working....

 

[Otto]

Still, it is mandated. Generall speaking, the stores are enforcing the policies sort forth by their towns and states etc.

West Hollywood is enforcing it now.
1st offence $250
2nd $1000
3rd $2000
4th $5000

The reality is wearing a face covering in the USA is far accepted than in Canada by a wide margin.

I walk into a grocery store here and maybe 1 in 8 people are wearing one.

The point is, the USA has done way more in this regard and yet they are hit harder.

This all begs the question of how much facemasks matter?

Removing a face covering requires proper care otherwise you risk hand contamination. Also, a facemask can provide a false sense of security. They wear them under their chins or only when it is convenient. They rarely get washed going on and off all day for a long period of time. For all we know they could be a significant carrier because they are not properly disinfected regularly.

Yes, maybe it does help protect the public from you but if your face covering is covered with the virus from many interactions and you are touching it with your hands and spreading it to every surface you touch, is it good?

Again, we really don't know enough.

Wearing of face coverings is a very hot topic globally.

The US hasn't done way more... if they had then they wouldn't be in the mess they are in. You can make all the laws you want about facemasks... if it's not being enforced then nobody will take it seriously... and across the USA it's not being enforced with any regularity
These are the states requiring people to wear masks when out in public - CNN

You know what would have worked? Shut down non-essential business, promote the heck out of social distancing and close the beaches... and don't re-open untilyou haven't under control... that would have been a great start

 

[HockeyPops]

Removing a face covering requires proper care otherwise you risk hand contamination. Also, a facemask can provide a false sense of security. They wear them under their chins or only when it is convenient. They rarely get washed going on and off all day for a long period of time. For all we know they could be a significant carrier because they are not properly disinfected regularly.

Again, we really don't know enough.

1. If you are going somewhere with a mask, you should assume your hands are contaminated anyway.
2. If they are worn on the neck they are no less effective than not wearing one at all.
3. Washing a mask is a simple as using soap and hot water when you wash your hands.
4. The science seems overwhelmingly behind mask wearing, even Trump is coming around.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

If courts are still closed in Ontario to in person hearings until Sept 14th 2020 at the earliest. Is there really a feasible plan out there that the OHL can work in September? Certainly if courts aren't being retro fitted in time for in person hearings, how can arenas be outfitted and have thousands of fans in the stands come Sept??

 

[HockeyPops]

Is there really a feasible plan out there that the OHL can work in September?

1. Hope
2. Pray
3. Release statement of everything you have planned so far

 

[OMG67]

If courts are still closed in Ontario to in person hearings until Sept 14th 2020 at the earliest. Is there really a feasible plan out there that the OHL can work in September? Certainly if courts aren't being retro fitted in time for in person hearings, how can arenas be outfitted and have thousands of fans in the stands come Sept??

The usual first game of season is last weekend of September. They’ve already pushed the start of the Memorial Cup back to June (unofficial). I don’t think they plan on starting the normal weekend. That is a target date for sure but I think it is unrealistic starting on time. I am pretty sure everyone on this forum would agree with that.

I think end of October-early November is probably more realistic.

 

[OMG67]

The US hasn't done way more... if they had then they wouldn't be in the mess they are in. You can make all the laws you want about facemasks... if it's not being enforced then nobody will take it seriously... and across the USA it's not being enforced with any regularity
These are the states requiring people to wear masks when out in public - CNN

You know what would have worked? Shut down non-essential business, promote the heck out of social distancing and close the beaches... and don't re-open untilyou haven't under control... that would have been a great start

I meant way more in the way of making people wear masks. In the USA, most businesses require a mask before you can walk into the store. That is not the case here. Where the mask regulations are in place, it is up to the stores to ensure everyone is wearing one. IT is like getting businesses to ensure no one smokes in the stores. Same sort of enforcement. IF someone is being difficult, they can call police and kick them out.

In Ontario, very few (I’ve been in ONE) stores require masks yet our numbers are way low. In the United States, most stores require masks and the umbers are going through the roof.

This is FACT. You interpret it any way you chose.

 

[OMG67]

Yet places like Florida have over 10 thousand cases in 1 day.
So its really working....

That’s my point. IT isn’t working. We can point to places that institute wearing of masks as a reason why their numbers are low except for the fact you have a country that by enlarge require the wearing of masks in businesses and many public places and yet their numbers are huge.

So which is it? Masks are good or masks are a false sense of security?

I don’t have an answer. I am just pointing out the oddity of the situation.

We can point to the opening of stores too early as a reason but if the vast majority are wearing masks and EVERYONE in stores are wearing masks (in cities and states that have mandated their use) and the masks are a means of stopping the spread, then how is opening stores too soon an issue?

 

[OHLTG]

In Ontario, very few (I’ve been in ONE) stores require masks yet our numbers are way low. In the United States, most stores require masks and the numbers are going through the roof.

As far as I know, Windsor has made masks mandatory in commercial establishments with some exceptions. It's a pretty big discussion point around these parts. Frankly, if me wearing a mask while I'm in a business means we're able to get to Stage 3 before Sept, I'm fine with that.

 

[OMG67]

As far as I know, Windsor has made masks mandatory in commercial establishments with some exceptions. It's a pretty big discussion point around these parts. Frankly, if me wearing a mask while I'm in a business means we're able to get to Stage 3 before Sept, I'm fine with that.

That is kind of the point I am making.

1> If wearing masks stops the spread of the virus then theoretically speaking, you can open all stores, sports venues etc with no issue.
2> If wearing masks only “helps” stop the spread then it is possible they provide a false sense of security meaning it may be less likely people social distance with masks on. This may increase the risk of spread.

Again, I don’t have the answer BUT it still remains somewhat odd that in the USA they opened the stores too quick but to do so they mandated the use of masks to make it safe. In Ontario, they opened the stores later but didn’t mandate the use of masks. Both countries are in complete contrast.

So the question is, if opening later had a positive effect and opening them sooner hurt the States, how effective are the masks?

 

[OHLTG]

They haven't mandated masks provincially, but Ford has highly recommended it (said he can't police everyone, though)... and Windsor has made it mandatory. It's as close to "wear the mask!!" as you can get. I know several people who refuse and are against it; so be it, I guess. I kind of treat them like clothes; get creative, different designs, have fun with it.

Do I think masks are the entire solution? No. Given there are asymptomatic people who have carried it, the masks help people from spreading their droplets, but you still socially distant when possible and wash hands and stuff. I'm around the public regularly and am close to front-liners, so if there's something I can to do help... I'm all for it. The last thing I'd want to do is catch it, be asymptomatic, and then spread it to older family.

 

[windsor7]

They haven't mandated masks provincially, but Ford has highly recommended it (said he can't police everyone, though)... and Windsor has made it mandatory. It's as close to "wear the mask!!" as you can get. I know several people who refuse and are against it; so be it, I guess. I kind of treat them like clothes; get creative, different designs, have fun with it.

Do I think masks are the entire solution? No. Given there are asymptomatic people who have carried it, the masks help people from spreading their droplets, but you still socially distant when possible and wash hands and stuff. I'm around the public regularly and am close to front-liners, so if there's something I can to do help... I'm all for it. The last thing I'd want to do is catch it, be asymptomatic, and then spread it to older family.

U could stay home by not catching covid.

 

[Otto]

I meant way more in the way of making people wear masks. In the USA, most businesses require a mask before you can walk into the store. That is not the case here. Where the mask regulations are in place, it is up to the stores to ensure everyone is wearing one. IT is like getting businesses to ensure no one smokes in the stores. Same sort of enforcement. IF someone is being difficult, they can call police and kick them out.

In Ontario, very few (I’ve been in ONE) stores require masks yet our numbers are way low. In the United States, most stores require masks and the umbers are going through the roof.

This is FACT. You interpret it any way you chose.

again.. they are not making more people wear masks.. it's not being enforced... that's why it's not working. It's all fine and good to say "retail stores can enforce it" but if you've actually worked in retail you would know that it's not that easy.

 

[OMG67]

again.. they are not making more people wear masks.. it's not being enforced... that's why it's not working. It's all fine and good to say "retail stores can enforce it" but if you've actually worked in retail you would know that it's not that easy.

Actually it is that easy. Every store has a person at the entry. Every store I go into has at least one person at the front door, if not 2 or 3 to control the lines and access. That person tells people they have to have a mask to gain entry.

If they are asshats and decide to take their mask off inside, that is a different story. However, that is the random few, not the norm.

There are a bunch of Bi-law type regulations that businesses enforce. I’ve mentioned a big one in Smoking. When was the last time you heard of issues with smokers in stores etc? Even when they instituted that law we had the odd problem now and then but mostly because of habits. They would light up not thinking and as soon as you said something, they were embarrassed and put their cigarette out.

Anyway, it is a moot point. I am just pointing out an oddity. You can ignore the FACT the United Tate’s has embraced masks to a much higher degree than Ontario. I live in Ottawa and I wear a mask when I get a haircut (mandatory for that establishment), when I went into a restaurant equipment store (mandatory for that establishment) and when I was shopping in an area that has lots of elderly people. I’ve never worn a mask at Costco. I’d say about 1 in 8 wear a mask at Costco (and they offer them for free at the entrance). Ottawa has something like 50 total active cases right now including LTC facilities.

I question the need for masks at this point. We’ve seen the numbers go down dramatically without them. We’ve social distanced and it has worked. People have done a ton of shopping and circulated in the community. IF masks become mandatory, so be it. I won’t argue or raise a fuss but I do question their requirement at this point, especially when looking at the United States.

 

[Otto]

Actually it is that easy. Every store has a person at the entry. Every store I go into has at least one person at the front door, if not 2 or 3 to control the lines and access. That person tells people they have to have a mask to gain entry.


If they are asshats and decide to take their mask off inside, that is a different story. However, that is the random few, not the norm.

There are a bunch of Bi-law type regulations that businesses enforce. I’ve mentioned a big one in Smoking. When was the last time you heard of issues with smokers in stores etc? Even when they instituted that law we had the odd problem now and then but mostly because of habits. They would light up not thinking and as soon as you said something, they were embarrassed and put their cigarette out.

Anyway, it is a moot point. I am just pointing out an oddity. You can ignore the FACT the United Tate’s has embraced masks to a much higher degree than Ontario. I live in Ottawa and I wear a mask when I get a haircut (mandatory for that establishment), when I went into a restaurant equipment store (mandatory for that establishment) and when I was shopping in an area that has lots of elderly people. I’ve never worn a mask at Costco. I’d say about 1 in 8 wear a mask at Costco (and they offer them for free at the entrance). Ottawa has something like 50 total active cases right now including LTC facilities.

I question the need for masks at this point. We’ve seen the numbers go down dramatically without them. We’ve social distanced and it has worked. People have done a ton of shopping and circulated in the community. IF masks become mandatory, so be it. I won’t argue or raise a fuss but I do question their requirement at this point, especially when looking at the United States.

You're contradicting yourself all over the place here ... if every store you go into tells people that they need a mask to gain entry, doesn't that mean we are ahead of the USA in terms of mask usage? And since you don't wear one in Costco are you not also one of the asshats you speak of? And if you question the need for masks, how can the USA be ahead of us?

I'd also be curious what other stores you are going into that has enough staff to station one at the enterance during all operating hours

 

[OMG67]

You're contradicting yourself all over the place here ... if every store you go into tells people that they need a mask to gain entry, doesn't that mean we are ahead of the USA in terms of mask usage? And since you don't wear one in Costco are you not also one of the asshats you speak of? And if you question the need for masks, how can the USA be ahead of us?

I'd also be curious what other stores you are going into that has enough staff to station one at the enterance during all operating hours

In Ontario, or at least Ottawa, all stores that were deemed essential services that allowed people inside the store have people in front of the store at the entrance maintaining order/lines to get in. In most cases, those stores also had sanitize stations where you either had to wash your hands or sanitize them.

Stores I’ve been in that all had this setup:
Costco
EVERY grocery store
Canadian Tire
Home Depot
Rona
Ritchie Feed & Seed
Golf Town
Walmart
CA Paradis
Home Hardware
Warren Chase Urban Retreat for Men

OF that list of stores, only CA Paradis and Warren Chase REQUIRED a mask to gain entry. Both of those places were part of the Stage II opening and it waS probably part of the requirements for them to open.

For the other stores (except GolfTown), they were deemed essential and have been open the whole time or pretty close to it. For a rough estimate, I’d say one in eight people wear a mask.

IN THE UNITED STATES, most of the states had regulations in place as part of their business opening to wear a mask indoors. Those businesses run the same as they do here. They maintain a certain restricted capacity and to do so, they require people at the door monitoring the entry and exit of their customers to maintain that restricted capacity. The people at the door enforce the policies of the store to gain entry. Again, in MANY of the States, a mask was required to gain entry. That is where it differed between the United States and Ontario.

In Ontario, there has been no mandate. Some Cities have instituted the use of masks, Windsor being one. However, the emphasis has been on capacity management and social distancing. That has worked very well.

Again, if they institute a regulation, I will follow it. However, since the existing measures have worked VERY well, I question the need to add additional restrictions.

 

[Otto]

IN THE UNITED STATES, most of the states had regulations in place as part of their business opening to wear a mask indoors.

Again... false... as posted above.. only 20 states have any sort of mask requirement . .that includes D.C. last I checked there were 50 states not including D.C.

Here's something US coronavirus infections rising in 36 states as July Fourth weekend starts

"Whether it's restricting travel or staying home or testing a lot of people or wearing a mask. And those are all important, but none of them, in and of themselves are going to control this," he said. "You basically need to physically distance. The three Ws: wear a mask, wash your hands, watch your distance, and you need to box the virus in with strategic testing, effective isolation, rapid contact tracing and supportive quarantine. We're not doing that yet in most of the country."

There is absolutely no way the USA has handled this better than Canada

 

[nelli27]

Once upon a time I was called out by a poster after I wrote "There's no way that Jordan Foreman should be captain of the Knights". The poster who called me out, and it wasn't because he disagreed with me, was Otto. I wasn't at all upset because he was right to remind me that blanket statements are meaningless - - you need to supply reasons. Why am I sharing this story? Because posters seem to think that because I know Otto, he receives preferential treatment. My integrity should not be questioned. Otto, to some, represents a gadfly, but if you read his posts, they are asking posters to clarify their thoughts... Nothing offensive about that. See JS Mill, On Liberty.