News Article: News and Notes XXXIV - is it time for us to make panic trades yet?

[Lempo]

Maybe the reasoning was that the NHL were ok with Karmanos holding the mark, but not with Dundon holding the mark? Either way, the way that Dundon is pushing the mark, it's clear that the considerations for the Hurricanes org are substantial.

I wonder if the NHL owns the other old marks.

Usually the IP of defunkt (=moving and rebranded) franchises like Thrashers are immediately transferred to NHL. Canes holding Whalers IP has been an anomaly.

Maybe as it was Karmanos as a continuing owner who moved the franchise (and not sell it), they couldn't take the Whalers IP from him at that point. Possibly there was a preagreement between Karmanos and NHL that the IP gets assigned to NHL if/when the franchise gets sold.

 

[bleedgreen]

You guys are the experts in reading all the paperwork and legal ramifications, I’m assuming you all know Hartford maintained rights to the logo (and I assumed the name - perhaps incorrectly) and it’s use for twenty years. Don’t know how that factors into anything y’all are talking about. I’m guessing not at all.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm of the opinion that this year is completely different than past years. The schedule is a mess, the existence of a season is uncertain, and either way the minor leagues are probably not going to happen.

A guy going and working out with a bunch of NHL superstars doesn't bother me under this context. It's just workouts. Boychuk skipping organized team workouts going into a normal season sent a different message. Especially because he was already on a trajectory to maybe not be an NHL player in the end, which is something I don't sense with Bean. Bean is stuck behind Jake Gardiner, Boychuk was stuck behind... like, Andreas Nodl or somebody.

Oh I agree and see both sides. I take no offense that he’s there, though I’d hope when it gets closer and more serious he’d come join. I’m not reading anything into him being there, just saying if he was making a choice it wouldn’t shock me.

 

[Lempo]

You guys are the experts in reading all the paperwork and legal ramifications, I’m assuming you all know Hartford maintained rights to the logo (and I assumed the name - perhaps incorrectly) and it’s use for twenty years. Don’t know how that factors into anything y’all are talking about. I’m guessing not at all.

There's this piece from ten years back.

Hartford Whalers Trademark: Who Owns The Rights?

Possibly Hartford retained some right-to-use right but not the actual ownership of the Whalers IP.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[CandyCanes]

Been following this guy for a while, has provided great insight on our Finnish prospects. Kinda cool he got a job with us. I see he deleted all his tweets, Canes making sure none of his good intel is tweeted now

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Been following this guy for a while, has provided great insight on our Finnish prospects. Kinda cool he got a job with us. I see he deleted all his tweets, Canes making sure none of his good intel is tweeted now

Fair game, that means he made it to the big time. See, they DO watch hockey Twitter! Now, will the Scouch himself also get hired by us? [fingers crossed]

 

[bleedgreen]

There's this piece from ten years back.

Hartford Whalers Trademark: Who Owns The Rights?

Possibly Hartford retained some right-to-use right but not the actual ownership of the Whalers IP.

Well when it all went down one thing they made a big deal about was that Hartford maintained the rights to the logo and name. I’m not saying that the paperwork actually lined up with that, or that the length of time stayed true to its original intent but I would be surprised if that wasn’t the case when the team initially left as it was a point of pride for some reason. Partially hyped as a “in case we get another team” concept. It was supposed to be in place for a long time. Once the team was gone and everyone involved moved out I’m sure it wasn’t as much of a priority as it had been.

I just recall two specifics of the cost for PK to leave. He was supposed to pay Hartford 20 million to break his deal with the city early and that the Hartford Whaler brand stayed in Hartford. Maybe someone forgot to get the appropriate paperwork to keep it going or they just didn’t care after awhile.

The author of the article admits he’s speculating and doesn’t know who owns the logo.

 

[geehaad]

will the Scouch

I believe he prefers simply Will Scouch. Will the Scouch sounds too much like Oscar the Grouch for his taste.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Fair game, that means he made it to the big time. See, they DO watch hockey Twitter! Now, will the Scouch himself also get hired by us? [fingers crossed]

You made me go search for this guy. Now I’ve wasted 10 min on Thanksgiving day.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Well when it all went down one thing they made a big deal about was that Hartford maintained the rights to the logo and name. I’m not saying that the paperwork actually lined up with that, or that the length of time stayed true to its original intent but I would be surprised if that wasn’t the case when the team initially left as it was a point of pride for some reason. Partially hyped as a “in case we get another team” concept. It was supposed to be in place for a long time. Once the team was gone and everyone involved moved out I’m sure it wasn’t as much of a priority as it had been.

I just recall two specifics of the cost for PK to leave. He was supposed to pay Hartford 20 million to break his deal with the city early and that the Hartford Whaler brand stayed in Hartford. Maybe someone forgot to get the appropriate paperwork to keep it going or they just didn’t care after awhile.

The author of the article admits he’s speculating and doesn’t know who owns the logo.

Someone screwed the pooch on that. Howard Baldwin damn sure thought he was going to have the rights to use the logo when he took over the AHL team a decade or so ago. Instead they became the CT Whale and it fell flat on its face (although slightly better than the Wolfpack did or continue to do)

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Well when it all went down one thing they made a big deal about was that Hartford maintained the rights to the logo and name. I’m not saying that the paperwork actually lined up with that, or that the length of time stayed true to its original intent but I would be surprised if that wasn’t the case when the team initially left as it was a point of pride for some reason. Partially hyped as a “in case we get another team” concept. It was supposed to be in place for a long time. Once the team was gone and everyone involved moved out I’m sure it wasn’t as much of a priority as it had been.

I just recall two specifics of the cost for PK to leave. He was supposed to pay Hartford 20 million to break his deal with the city early and that the Hartford Whaler brand stayed in Hartford. Maybe someone forgot to get the appropriate paperwork to keep it going or they just didn’t care after awhile.

The author of the article admits he’s speculating and doesn’t know who owns the logo.

We know who owns the logo. The NHL owns it. That is now 100% unambiguous. And Hurricanes LP owned the logo before that. That is also now 100% unambiguous.

What we don't know is who has had various rights to the logo, or what agreements are in place around it. The NHL can fully own the logo and still be bound contractually to all kinds of agreements, and we would have literally no way of knowing what they might be.

 

[Lempo]

Well when it all went down one thing they made a big deal about was that Hartford maintained the rights to the logo and name. I’m not saying that the paperwork actually lined up with that, or that the length of time stayed true to its original intent but I would be surprised if that wasn’t the case when the team initially left as it was a point of pride for some reason. Partially hyped as a “in case we get another team” concept. It was supposed to be in place for a long time. Once the team was gone and everyone involved moved out I’m sure it wasn’t as much of a priority as it had been.

I just recall two specifics of the cost for PK to leave. He was supposed to pay Hartford 20 million to break his deal with the city early and that the Hartford Whaler brand stayed in Hartford. Maybe someone forgot to get the appropriate paperwork to keep it going or they just didn’t care after awhile.

The author of the article admits he’s speculating and doesn’t know who owns the logo.

This is not out of line with the speculations in my linked article. These kind of wordings you remember seeing back then seem a bit weasely to me.

"Maintaining rights" would maybe refer to a licensing type of agreement, because you can take it granted that if city of Hartford didn't own the IP, the of the IP sure as heck wasn't going to be transferred to them free of charge.

Hartford maybe got that another NHL team in another place wouldn't use the (Hartford) Whalers brand. The speculative 20 years was up in 2018 when Carolina started with the throwbacks.

NHL probably would be adamant that there won't be a non-NHL team by the brand of Hartford Whalers, because that could effectively void the IP that NHL or an NHL member team owned.

It's likely a mess of owning the IP, licensing it and agreements of not licensing it. I wouldn't consider it impossible that there might've been a contractual impasse of sorts preventing anyone (including and maybe especially Hurricanes Hockey) selling Whalers gear in the meantime. Maybe the NHL acquiring the IP in 2018 was what it took to solve it, maybe because NHL can bully Hartword over the elusive dream of them one day getting an NHL team back.

 

[bleedgreen]

We know who owns the logo. The NHL owns it. That is now 100% unambiguous. And Hurricanes LP owned the logo before that. That is also now 100% unambiguous.

What we don't know is who has had various rights to the logo, or what agreements are in place around it. The NHL can fully own the logo and still be bound contractually to all kinds of agreements, and we would have literally no way of knowing what they might be.

Hank I’m not talking about now. Thought I made that clear. Was just referring to the original state of affairs when the team left.

 

[bleedgreen]

This is not out of line with the speculations in my linked article. These kind of wordings you remember seeing back then seem a bit weasely to me.

"Maintaining rights" would maybe refer to a licensing type of agreement, because you can take it granted that if city of Hartford didn't own the IP, the of the IP sure as heck wasn't going to be transferred to them free of charge.

Hartford maybe got that another NHL team in another place wouldn't use the (Hartford) Whalers brand. The speculative 20 years was up in 2018 when Carolina started with the throwbacks.

NHL probably would be adamant that there won't be a non-NHL team by the brand of Hartford Whalers, because that could effectively void the IP that NHL or an NHL member team owned.

It's likely a mess of owning the IP, licensing it and agreements of not licensing it. I wouldn't consider it impossible that there might've been a contractual impasse of sorts preventing anyone (including and maybe especially Hurricanes Hockey) selling Whalers gear in the meantime. Maybe the NHL acquiring the IP in 2018 was what it took to solve it, maybe because NHL can bully Hartword over the elusive dream of them one day getting an NHL team back.

The 2018 date when the throwbacks started showing up for sure lined up with the twenty year concept stuck in my head. I thought I read something at that time that lined up with that, using it as an explanation why the jerseys were coming back. It’s always been in my head that it was 20 years and 20 years later the official throwback appeared. Obviously we don’t know the specifics of what was agreed upon. I think it’s fair to say official gear was off limits during that time despite the popularity so to me it seems like something had to be in place, or people just didn’t want to touch it because it wasn’t clear. Maybe at the ten year mark someone could’ve but chose not to for whatever reason.

I should add there’s no emotion in this and never was. I never thought the team was coming back and always wanted more gear, I didn’t care who made the money off it. Still don’t. They could’ve given it to the nhl in 97 and I wouldn’t have blinked. I’m pretty good at remembering the irrelevant details, and the view at the time was that it was a minor victory (and basically the only victory unless you consider the 20 million) that the brand stayed there. I think they referred to it as a brand back then but that’s a detail I could be wrong about for sure.

 

[Lempo]

If Karmanos had to do some kind of side deal with Hartford over the moving, it's plausible that there would also have been something agreed on the (non-)usage of the HW brand as part of such a contract and Karmanos/HH was bound by that.

 

[bleedgreen]

If Karmanos had to do some kind of side deal with Hartford over the moving, it's plausible that there would also have been something agreed on the (non-)usage of the HW brand as part of such a contract and Karmanos/HH was bound by that.

It was part of the original sale of the team to PK in the first place. There were two bidders, the other offered a 20 year no move promise and PK’s was only four. From the day it was signed they made a big deal that he would have to pay 20 million to break it and leave, as at the time a new owner buying the team to move it was a superficial concern. The 20 million was how they sold it to the fans that it was somehow the smart play to choose the four year guy over the twenty year guy (who swore up and down the negotiations were crooked and promised PK would break the deal early...). That whole debacle is a pretty fascinating story but not what we’re talking about here.

They never made a big deal about the brand until the negotiations over leaving occurred and the 20 million became an issue so that particular aspect of it was probably added at that point.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[tarheelhockey]

Wait, 3 out of the 4 nominees are local?

Is this some sort of prelim round?

 

[tarheelhockey]

TIL that Markham ON, home of Warren Foegele and Jeff Skinner, is sister cities with Cary NC.

 

[Lempo]

TIL that Markham ON, home of Warren Foegele and Jeff Skinner, is sister cities with Cary NC.

... and Wuhan in China.

 

[tarheelhockey]

... and Wuhan in China.

This is undoubtedly some intricate web of connections involving the CIA, the illuminati, and Don Waddell.

 

[Lempo]

This is undoubtedly some intricate web of connections involving the CIA, the illuminati, and Don Waddell.

AKA "El Cid".

 

[BHD]

Foegele is a good, Canadian boy.

 

[Canes]

Foegele is a good, Canadian boy.

I like my good Canadian boys from the prairies, territories or the maritimes though.

Wait what