News Article: News and Notes XXXIV - is it time for us to make panic trades yet?

[DaveG]

I thought it was Mirtle or Friedman that mentioned Carolina and Andersen?

Yes, and it was already discussed, analyzed, and mostly dismissed with some pretty solid analysis when whichever media personality it was floated the idea a few days back. Both here and on the trade board.

 

[Chrispy]

True... and we mocked it when it happened because no f***ing way do we ever say yes to that deal even if Pesce was demanding a trade. Because we'd have made that public and within hours have 29 better offers on the table for him.

Agreed. My issue is that Bob, especially on Toronto radio, has a bad habit of just spitballing things that get picked up as "credible rumors" because he's Bob.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I've found that the insiders are careful with their words. Those that summarize their radio hits without being attentive to that end up misrepresenting what was said at times. When the idea is prefaced with an "I wonder" or posed in the form of a question starting with "would", they're spitballing to fill airtime. When it's an "I think", it's informed speculation that should be taken seriously. When it's an "I've been told", that's a rumor and a signal that something may come of it.

 

[spockBokk]

The Athletic TOR writers will be doing an article tomorrow focusing on Eastern Conference defenseman the Leafs may target.

Prepare accordingly for the flood of fanciful proposals that article will generate...

 

[spockBokk]

To comment on that Rumors Daily account, he does actually seem to get more than just the offhand trade right. He seems to have some legit sources, specifically with the Rangers. Sara Civ actually follows him as well as a few other insiders.

He’s certainly not 100%, but he does have a bit of credibility, if that makes any sense. At least in the time that I’ve followed him, he’s actually called a few things correctly. His info on the new CBA and RTP seemed to be “scoopy”.

I tend to follow a few of those accounts on Twitter, cause well, it’s just fun.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

One thing I will say, is that this management group isn't afraid to speak to various sources about what they planned to do. We went from JR who would give McKenzie the scoop or come right out and say something publicly, to Francis who was Fort Knox and never revealed anything to Waddell and co. who see to talk to everyone and anyone so I don't dismiss reports we see as much as I would have under Francis.

 

[hblueridgegal]

For those who are parenting or mentoring school age children...

 

[Canes]

The Athletic TOR writers will be doing an article tomorrow focusing on Eastern Conference defenseman the Leafs may target.

Prepare accordingly for the flood of fanciful proposals that article will generate...

Unless they're targeting Fleury or Bean, I'm not sure there's a deal to be had. I just don't think there's a realistic 1 for 1-ish deal the Leafs could make for Pesce or Hamilton but I'm sure those names will be mentioned to drive clicks. The Leafs would probably have to involve a 3rd team for one of those guys and the only thing less reliable than trade rumors between two teams is a trade rumor involving 3 teams.

 

[spockBokk]

Unless they're targeting Fleury or Bean, I'm not sure there's a deal to be had. I just don't think there's a realistic 1 for 1-ish deal the Leafs could make for Pesce or Hamilton but I'm sure those names will be mentioned to drive clicks. The Leafs would probably have to involve a 3rd team for one of those guys and the only thing less reliable than trade rumors between two teams is a trade rumor involving 3 teams.

While I mostly agree, I don’t think Hamilton to the Leafs is outside of the realm of possibility, considering they have futures - 15OA/Liljgren, a goalie that the Canes have inquired about - Andersen and a roster player that CAR has been rumored to have been interested in as well - Johnsson. Some sort of combination of those pieces could be what the Canes end up with if things go south in extension talks.

 

[GoldiFox]

While I mostly agree, I don’t think Hamilton to the Leafs is outside of the realm of possibility, considering they have futures - 15OA/Liljgren, a goalie that the Canes have inquired about - Andersen and a roster player that CAR has been rumored to have been interested in as well - Johnsson. Some sort of combination of those pieces could be what the Canes end up with if things go south in extension talks.

Johnsson + #15 + Andersen for Hamilton would be a 3 quarters for a dollar deal. Not sure the Canes would be interested when they could probably get a similar caliber roster player. I know the Faulk/Skinner deals would fall into that range but dealing Hamilton to Toronto feels more like significantly improving direct competition for a handful of maybes rather than handing bad deals off to Western or non-competitive teams.

I don't see any appeal in Liljegren. He would need to be protected in the expansion draft or lost. It would be similar to adding an additional Bean that was less talented. With Bean, Keane, and Liljegren then you have 3 guys who all need NHL time soon (as well as Fleury) without any clear spots for them.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

If Hamilton prices himself out of Carolina, how does he make sense for Toronto? Paying a big price for another one and done could have a crippling effect on their depth moving forward.

Toronto has the ability to offer SBs, but the value of those in terms of an AAV discount is in doubt when you look at the market to market+ deals Dubas handed out recently that include them.

 

[spockBokk]

Johnsson + #15 + Andersen for Hamilton would be a 3 quarters for a dollar deal. Not sure the Canes would be interested when they could probably get a similar caliber roster player. I know the Faulk/Skinner deals would fall into that range but dealing Hamilton to Toronto feels more like significantly improving direct competition for a handful of maybes rather than handing bad deals off to Western or non-competitive teams.

I don't see any appeal in Liljegren. He would need to be protected in the expansion draft or lost. It would be similar to adding an additional Bean that was less talented. With Bean, Keane, and Liljegren then you have 3 guys who all need NHL time soon (as well as Fleury) without any clear spots for them.

Not gonna argue, I agree.

But that sort of return seems commiserate with what they could potentially expect for 1 year of Hamilton.

I think Liljgren is actually expansion exempt, at least accorindig to some Athletic article I read a few weeks ago about. I could be wrong, but I recall he was clearly listed as being exempt. There’s the appeal. He potentially becomes a 2nd pair D (at best in time) that doesn’t require protection. With no exemption, he’s not interesting at all.

 

[Lempo]

By definition, isn't a rumor not credible?

1) Learn to recognize poisonous mushrooms.
2) Eat only mushrooms you recognize.

 

[Canes]

If Hamilton prices himself out of Carolina, how does he make sense for Toronto? Paying a big price for another one and done could have a crippling effect on their depth moving forward.

Toronto has the ability to offer SBs, but the value of those in terms of an AAV discount is in doubt when you look at the market to market+ deals Dubas handed out recently that include them.

He makes sense because the Leafs can give up a 2nd and Liljegren to get him for one year. Or whatever other absurd underpayment you can think of right now. It all depends on what angle the writer wants to take.

 

[spockBokk]

Not linking the tweet, but the 24/7 Hockey guy or whatever is saying Pesce for Andersen is close, but the Leafs aren’t “biting yet”.

heh

 

[MinJaBen]

Not linking the tweet, but the 24/7 Hockey guy or whatever is saying Pesce for Andersen is close, but the Leafs aren’t “biting yet”.

heh

 

[raynman]

Not linking the tweet, but the 24/7 Hockey guy or whatever is saying Pesce for Andersen is close, but the Leafs aren’t “biting yet”.

heh

that’s a throw your jersey on the ice during a game level trade

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Biggest "difference" between our board feelings and his is Jake Bean. Ranked 3 after Svech and Necas, on the "High-end/Very Good" bubble. Says he's likely a top 4 defenseman.

BTW, is it a bit of a sign of the strength of our blueline how "meh" we are about having a 21-year-old AHL defenseman of the year.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Not linking the tweet, but the 24/7 Hockey guy or whatever is saying Pesce for Andersen is close, but the Leafs aren’t “biting yet”.

heh

I could see them both being involved in a trade. The other half of which is Nylander and Mrazek.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The Athletic TOR writers will be doing an article tomorrow focusing on Eastern Conference defenseman the Leafs may target.

Prepare accordingly for the flood of fanciful proposals that article will generate...

Here's the article --> Trade Targets Part 2: Scouring the East for the defenceman the Leafs need

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I read that as an insinuation that Pesce is a declining defenseman with a big contract and that's before accounting for his injury concerns. I also rolled my eyes at the thought of Hamilton being expendable because of Skjei and Gardiner.

Here I thought it was just agenda driven Leafs' fans coming up with this stuff.

 

[spockBokk]

Here's the article --> Trade Targets Part 2: Scouring the East for the defenceman the Leafs need

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I read that as an insinuation that Pesce is a declining defenseman with a big contract and that's before accounting for his injury concerns. I also rolled my eyes at the thought of Hamilton being expendable because of Skjei and Gardiner.

Here I thought it was just agenda driven Leafs' fans coming up with this stuff.

At least the author acknowledges that Hamilton would cost more than just Andersen

 

[DaveG]

Here's the article --> Trade Targets Part 2: Scouring the East for the defenceman the Leafs need

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I read that as an insinuation that Pesce is a declining defenseman with a big contract and that's before accounting for his injury concerns. I also rolled my eyes at the thought of Hamilton being expendable because of Skjei and Gardiner.

Here I thought it was just agenda driven Leafs' fans coming up with this stuff.

Yep, that's the Toronto media for you. No concept of fair value league wide and then leaf fans on the trade board get stuck wondering why everyone else thinks their valuations are completely out to lunch when they propose what was discussed on the trade board.

 

[GoldiFox]

Here's the article --> Trade Targets Part 2: Scouring the East for the defenceman the Leafs need

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I read that as an insinuation that Pesce is a declining defenseman with a big contract and that's before accounting for his injury concerns. I also rolled my eyes at the thought of Hamilton being expendable because of Skjei and Gardiner.

Here I thought it was just agenda driven Leafs' fans coming up with this stuff.

The whole article is a pretty funny read.

On Seth Jones:

Does GM Jarmo Kekalainen think about it if Dubas dangles William Nylander? And is two years of Jones at $5.4 million, with an expensive extension to follow, worth it for four of Nylander?

Questioning whether or not trading Nylander would be worth just two years of Seth Jones. lol.

Reminds me of the main board Toronto fan who said Brett Pesce was nowhere near Nylanders value and said Canes fans talk about Pesce like he's the reincarnation of Bobby Orr. As if Nylander's value one-on-one would be Bobby Orr.

 

[WreckingCrew]

The whole article is a pretty funny read.

On Seth Jones:


Questioning whether or not trading Nylander would be worth just two years of Seth Jones. lol.

Reminds me of the main board Toronto fan who said Brett Pesce was nowhere near Nylanders value and said Canes fans talk about Pesce like he's the reincarnation of Bobby Orr. As if Nylander's value one-on-one would be Bobby Orr.

Orr is in his 70s so probably pretty close these days