News Article: News and Note XXVII: Bunch of Jerks

[A Star is Burns]

There is no question. Both will be retired.

 

[cptjeff]

I would have said the opposite, if either winds up being retired. Mostly because of the “competition” that’s already up there. Staal was fine for us, but he wasn’t a Francis or a Brindamour. Ward has most of the franchise’s goaltending records, and it’s often not even close.

Of course, if either player were provided any kind of meaningful support during their prime years here, there’d be no questions about retiring their numbers.

I'd also argue that Staal getting his kick in the pants and recovering his game in Minnesota validates every criticism he ever got here and then some- for the bulk of his tenure, we got a lazy and listless Staal who only rarely played to his potential. It wasn't about support. It was about him almost never playing past second gear. If his decline here was just one of age and wear, he'd have gotten his number retired. But his revival in Minnesota shows that, outside of 2006 and 2009, he simply never gave his all for this franchise, and that failure in play and failure of model leadership is a big reason why we've been in the playoff drought that we're in. Unless he signs with the Canes this offseason and spends several years making up for that period of time and leading us back to the playoffs, I don't think he gets his number retired and I don't think he ever should. I think it stays out of circulation until he retires, but I think like Whitney's 13, it should be put back into use after a decent interval.

Ward I'm conflicted about. I think we broke and wasted Ward behind absurdly bad defenses- he didn't have the numbers you'd hope for to retire the most storied number for goalies, and it's hard to sort out his skill versus what playing for this shitshow of a franchise did to him. But he was a stalwart for this team for such a long time, and did win the Conn Smythe. I would lean towards retiring his number.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It’s not just that the organization rarely gave Ward a defensive group worth speaking about. It’s also the lack of a competent backup. How many years were we basically forced to play Ward for every significant game because we knew putting in one of Peters/Leighton/Grahame/etc was basically chalking it up as a loss before the game even began?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Staal haters gonna hate. Whatever else you feel about him, he won a Cup here, was one of the more productive players in the league for like a 7 or 8 year stretch, lead the team in points on the way to the Cup, was the captain, and so on. And that's also leaving out that not everyone buys the lazy narrative.

I couldn't effing stand Ward for his last 4-5 years, but I can put my biases aside to say he should have his number retired.

This board drives me nuts sometimes. Players like Skinner and Lindholm blow up, and it's because they're finally playing with talent. Staal blows up after playing mostly with garbage for years, and it's because he's lazy here, and not the much better talent he's played with in Minnesota.

On one hand, people bemoan that most of our players that leave here are out of the league in a year, but then we have to hear how every scrub that is placed in waivers will be a 20 goal scorer because a couple of talented players have been productive elsewhere.

Just contradictory arguments all over.

I can't even take anyone seriously that doesn't think both will be retired. Glen Wesley deserved it less than either of those two, even though I'm sure some will consider that blasphemy. He was a good defensive dman that played a while.

 

[Svechhammer]

Win the Conn Smythe and raise the Cup? Proceed to be the everyday starter for the franchise for the next 12 years?

Yeah Wardo is getting retired, and deservedly so. Less sure about Staal. His biggest individual accomplishment was captain of the all star game in Raleigh. The 2009 run was fun but it wasn't really reproducible, and a lot of the issues with the team were on his shoulders.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Eric was significantly better than Ward relative to his peers for a longer period of time. He had an 8 year stretch where he was 10th in the league in points and 5th in goals. Stretch it to 9 and he was 7th in points and goals. Most people thought Brindy should have won the Smythe anyways, but Brindy, Staal, or Ward all could have won it. He scored 775 points here. That's a lot. He was a second team all star in 05-06 and played in 4 all star games. He was a captain here for a long time, and while many hold that against him, you could have put amazing captain Jonathan Toews here for those years, and his leadership wouldn't have done a damn thing.

Like I said, Cam deserves it too, but the Smythe is the only thing that he has over Staal. His .909 and 2.70 over 13 years are awful compared to what Staal did in his time here. But of course, it was his D that made him bad, but the lack of talent around Staal that he still managed to produce greatly doesn't matter.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Unless Aho or Svechnikov play to their top potential AND play 1,000 games for the Hurricanes, in 15 years Eric Staal will still hold all of the meaningful scoring records for this team (since the move).

He’s the only Hurricane to score 40 goals or have 100 points in a season and was the leading playoff scorer on a cup winning team.

And they haven’t issued 12 since he left.

Whatever ill will you have towards him, tough shit, you’re going to look at 12 in the rafters when he retires.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Eric was significantly better than Ward relative to his peers for a longer period of time. He had an 8 year stretch where he was 10th in the league in points and 5th in goals. Stretch it to 9 and he was 7th in points and goals. Most people thought Brindy should have won the Smythe anyways, but Brindy, Staal, or Ward all could have won it. He scored 775 points here. That's a lot. He was a second team all star in 05-06 and played in 4 all star games. He was a captain here for a long time, and while many hold that against him, you could have put amazing captain Jonathan Toews here for those years, and his leadership wouldn't have done a damn thing.

Like I said, Cam deserves it too, but the Smythe is the only thing that he has over Staal. His .909 and 2.70 over 13 years are awful compared to what Staal did in his time here. But of course, it was his D that made him bad, but the lack of talent around Staal that he still managed to produce greatly doesn't matter.

Ward’s numbers overall are not good. He did carry 3 or 4 of those complete dogshit teams on his back to relevance, one to the conference finals when he finally literally hurt his back.

It always absolutely befuddled me that Jim Rutherford, former NHL goaltender, couldn’t ever find a back up goalie. We bemoan Francis’ problem getting competent goalies (and wow was it bad) but JR completely whiffed on every backup he brought in after what Kevin Weekes?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Ward’s numbers overall are not good. He did carry 3 or 4 of those complete dog**** teams on his back to relevance, one to the conference finals when he finally literally hurt his back.

It always absolutely befuddled me that Jim Rutherford, former NHL goaltender, couldn’t ever find a back up goalie. We bemoan Francis’ problem getting competent goalies (and wow was it bad) but JR completely whiffed on every backup he brought in after what Kevin Weekes?

I didn't even want to bag on Ward, my issues with him aside. I'm just showing that Ward shouldn't be a slam dunk compared to Eric. They both should be slam dunks.

You are correct that Ward had no backup, and no defense many years. Just like Eric didn't get enough great players to play with or depth behind him. Both should be looked on even more favorably than they are, but Rutherford and Francis failed them both hard.

 

[GoldiFox]

The Canes will retire Ward and Staal. Doesn't change that in his last 2-3 years Staal was the laziest, mopiest player I've ever seen in a Canes jersey (which includes a broken Alex Semin) and he was making $9 million while doing it.

 

[Negan4Coach]

I'd also argue that Staal getting his kick in the pants and recovering his game in Minnesota validates every criticism he ever got here and then some- for the bulk of his tenure, we got a lazy and listless Staal who only rarely played to his potential. It wasn't about support. It was about him almost never playing past second gear. If his decline here was just one of age and wear, he'd have gotten his number retired. But his revival in Minnesota shows that, outside of 2006 and 2009, he simply never gave his all for this franchise, and that failure in play and failure of model leadership is a big reason why we've been in the playoff drought that we're in. Unless he signs with the Canes this offseason and spends several years making up for that period of time and leading us back to the playoffs, I don't think he gets his number retired and I don't think he ever should. I think it stays out of circulation until he retires, but I think like Whitney's 13, it should be put back into use after a decent interval.

Ward I'm conflicted about. I think we broke and wasted Ward behind absurdly bad defenses- he didn't have the numbers you'd hope for to retire the most storied number for goalies, and it's hard to sort out his skill versus what playing for this ****show of a franchise did to him. But he was a stalwart for this team for such a long time, and did win the Conn Smythe. I would lean towards retiring his number.

I totally agree and would add that the two of them winning the cup immediately into their careers was really, really detrimental.

 

[Canes]

Still love me some Eric Staal. I think some people really forget how much of a beast he was in between the lockouts.

Rarely playing with any talent and never making the playoffs will wear on any player. It's hard for me to hold that against Staal, Skinner, Lindholm, etc.

 

[AD Skinner]

I don't have all the lineups in front of me but I would say that the defenses Ward had to play behind were at least one if not more tiers of ineptitude below the forwards Staal got to play with/around. Outside of the year that Stewart and Ponikarovsky were supposed to somehow turn into useful players Staal always had players like Brind'amour, Whitney, Cole, Stillman, Ruutu, Skinner, J Staal, Semin around him. They may not have been allstars but they were competent NHL scoring forwards. Compare that to defenses that consisted of a usually hurt Pitkanen and then a bunch of players who would struggle to make #6 on any other NHL team, plus the lack of a backup that's been touched on already... I'd say the organization failed Ward harder than Staal. It's a shame too because Ward was always a good soldier and Staal was what the kid's dad said about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in Airplane

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I really feel bad for Ward, because it sounds like some of the same things are happening in Chicago. I'm pretty sure earlier in the season, the Hawks set an NHL record for shots given up in a period (with Ward in net, because of course), and I know after the Winter Classic, the players talked about how they felt they let down Ward who "was making saves he had no business making."

 

[Joe McGrath]

During Darling’s time here the Canes are 41-31-9 in games he doesn’t start.

Pretty much a 92 point team. Still not playoff worthy, but right on the cusp.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

During Darling’s time here the Canes are 41-31-9 in games he doesn’t start.

Pretty much a 92 point team. Still not playoff worthy, but right on the cusp.

 

[Joe McGrath]

And it’s not like the goalies amassing that record are Vezina candidates or anything.

 

[AD Skinner]

And it’s not like the goalies amassing that record are Vezina candidates or anything.

Yes it's completely absurd how long we floundered looking for just not terrible goaltending. I remember having conversations about signing darling and saying "he doesn't even have to be that good, he just has to be ok" boy if I had only known

 

[vorbis]

Craig Custance seems to double down on the recent rumblings about openness to trading Ferland and Hamilton in his "20 players who could move" column today on The gooble gobble Athletic.

NHL Trade Big Board: 20 players who could move before the...

5. Dougie Hamilton, Hurricanes: Multiple sources confirmed that the Hurricanes are open to trading Hamilton, not necessarily because they’ve soured on him but because they’re trying to get the best possible offer for a defenseman not named Jaccob Slavin. It would be surprising if the Hurricanes don’t trade either Hamilton, Justin Faulk or Brett Pesce at some point, although the best deal might not be until the draft.

13. Micheal Ferland, Hurricanes: Carolina is already getting calls on Ferland, an unrestricted free agent who is due a big raise after this season. The Hurricanes like Ferland but not at the expected price he is likely to cost in his next deal. He’s got size, playoff experience and a small cap number. It wouldn’t be surprising at all if the Penguins, always aggressive to improve their team under GM Jim Rutherford, were interested.

the Hamilton thing is honestly fair enough but the Ferland snippet is slam-my-head-against-the-desk dumb. if you don't want him at the price he is likely to cost in his next deal then Why The Hell Did You Trade For Him As A One Year To UFA Guy In The First Place. . . . . . .

and leaving that aside, and the ostensible reasonableness of being open to trading Hamilton in the right scenario aside, I am soooo over this regime's tendency so far to float gossipy trial balloons to the usual sources (Custance, Friedman, et al) as this sort of ploy to goad negotiations along or spur interest league wide in their assets.

it started with the constant chatter about Hanifin/Lindholm's RFA negotiations, then the potential deals with them around the draft, then all this gobbledygook about resigning Aho and Teravainen, all the various incarnations of a potential Nylander deal, then this crap with Hamilton and/or Ferland.

it's ****ing exhausting, it's clearly having no tangible impact on this leadership group's ability to close deals or acquire legit talent, it brings out the absolute worst in hftrade chumlords, and it feels gross. I feel like I could rant about this for the rest of the day. it's becoming more and more transparent, and it's garbage. stop doing it.

 

[vorbis]

the largest contract signed since Dundon became owner last January is Trevor van Riemsdyk's 2 year 4.6M contract actually they signed Calvin de Haan at 4 years 18.2 million dollars so this whole point is dumb now. at some point the Hurricanes are going to have to sign away a decent amount of money. when they do, it will be the first time Dundon has committed an amount of money more than the going rate for a replacement level player.

that combined with the (rather widely reported and far far below going rate) salaries for his GM and head coach paint a pretty compelling picture of the owner and his idea of paying money for talent.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Craig Custance seems to double down on the recent rumblings about openness to trading Ferland and Hamilton in his "20 players who could move" column today on The gooble gobble Athletic.

NHL Trade Big Board: 20 players who could move before the...





the Hamilton thing is honestly fair enough but the Ferland snippet is slam-my-head-against-the-desk dumb. if you don't want him at the price he is likely to cost in his next deal then Why The Hell Did You Trade For Him As A One Year To UFA Guy In The First Place. . . . . . .

and leaving that aside, and the ostensible reasonableness of being open to trading Hamilton in the right scenario aside, I am soooo over this regime's tendency so far to float gossipy trial balloons to the usual sources (Custance, Friedman, et al) as this sort of ploy to goad negotiations along or spur interest league wide in their assets.

it started with the constant chatter about Hanifin/Lindholm's RFA negotiations, then the potential deals with them around the draft, then all this gobbledygook about resigning Aho and Teravainen, all the various incarnations of a potential Nylander deal, then this crap with Hamilton and/or Ferland.

it's ****ing exhausting, it's clearly having no tangible impact on this leadership group's ability to close deals or acquire legit talent, it brings out the absolute worst in hftrade chumlords, and it feels gross. I feel like I could rant about this for the rest of the day. it's becoming more and more transparent, and it's garbage. stop doing it.

That’s what happens when you go from Francis doing everything on his own to a “brain trust” where 10 assholes who are barely qualified to tie their own shoes need to all keep their mouths shut.

 

[raynman]

the largest contract signed since Dundon became owner last January is Trevor van Riemsdyk's 2 year 4.6M contract. at some point the Hurricanes are going to have to sign away a decent amount of money. when they do, it will be the first time Dundon has committed an amount of money more than the going rate for a replacement level player.

that combined with the (rather widely reported and far far below going rate) salaries for his GM and head coach paint a pretty compelling picture of the owner and his idea of paying money for talent.

Don’t forget CDH for 4 years at $18.2M

 

[vorbis]

Don’t forget CDH for 4 years at $18.2M

you're right, not sure how I forgot that. scratch that point.

 

[jiitu]

During Darling’s time here the Canes are 41-31-9 in games he doesn’t start.

Pretty much a 92 point team. Still not playoff worthy, but right on the cusp.

Wow..thats really something. 92 points thing seems to be the case also just for this season. At this point it would mean 3 points more. And mental effect included (more points would give more trust), propably it could make couple more win...96 points.

Sad stuff. Waisting 2 seasons because of him

 

[the halleJOKEL]

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